Recruiting

[big tone]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

[TigerLand]

You cant get 1st round picks wrong any more. The media picks them for you.

This was many forum poster point when the discussion to draft Hampson came up. A first round pick will grant you a 150 game player in 95% of the cases now days. Gone are the days of horrendous picks like JON.

Its in the 2nd round, 3rd round and rookie draft where recruiters earn their money. Yet a few posters argued that trading pick 24 for Hampson was valid cause the success rate from round 2 onwards was low enough to bank on Hampson being a better success. Still to this day disagree whole heartedly.

[Diocletian]

. Still to this day disagree whole heartedly.

...as did anyone wiith half a clue....

[tigs2011]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

[big tone]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

I have just given you 10 years of recruiting. If you disagree with any of the names or if I have been to harsh on anyone let me know your thoughts. But 6 names in 10 years of drafting speaks for itself. Not saying it's all FJ fault but most of it is.
Interested to hear other peoples thought on my list and the players that they think should be there.
It's no wonder the RFC is where it is.
Hartly IMO did ok early with the likes of Grigg, Houli, Chaplin and Maric but nobody said they were there to be premiership players, they should have been upgraded on by kids FJ picked up,in the draft.

[tigs2011]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

I have just given you 10 years of recruiting. If you disagree with any of the names or if I have been to harsh on anyone let me know your thoughts. But 6 names in 10 years of drafting speaks for itself. Not saying it's all FJ fault but most of it is.
Interested to hear other peoples thought on my list and the players that they think should be there.
It's no wonder the RFC is where it is.
Hartly IMO did ok early with the likes of Grigg, Houli, Chaplin and Maric but nobody said they were there to be premiership players, they should have been upgraded on by kids FJ picked up,in the draft.

how many did u have when we flogged them by 60 and 40 points? Some of the others should have overtaken them but because they don't get games because list cloggers didn't allow it.

In hindsight we should have gone the slow burn because now it's starting to bite us. As I also said I'm not arguing he's the best out there. Not even sure he's the best at the club right now.

Agree wholeheartedly on the Hartley part. We relaxed on those positions thinking they were covered. When ultimately we should have picked a junior with them.

[tony_montana]

I think most of us agree on that bt, problem wasn't getting these guys, was a good move imo, but the fact we're still going down that path and playing these guys ahead of kids that should be going past them is an indictment.

Conca and Ellis would be playing in Hawthorns team imo, Ellis especially, they'd love his run/kicking skills and would find the perfect outside role for him. As for the rest of them, well theyre not even good enough to play in our side according to our coaches so no hope for the hawks. Just not good enough

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

I have just given you 10 years of recruiting. If you disagree with any of the names or if I have been to harsh on anyone let me know your thoughts. But 6 names in 10 years of drafting speaks for itself. Not saying it's all FJ fault but most of it is.
Interested to hear other peoples thought on my list and the players that they think should be there.
It's no wonder the RFC is where it is.
Hartly IMO did ok early with the likes of Grigg, Houli, Chaplin and Maric but nobody said they were there to be premiership players, they should have been upgraded on by kids FJ picked up,in the draft.

The problem is none of our recruits get adequate senior exposure to help fast track development and that is not the recruiters fault. If team selectors continually pick guys like Edwards etc how are guys like McKintosh, macDonough going to get a chance to show us what they can do. Our seconds have been so bad that I feel they actually have been going backwards playing there.
So there probably is some truth in what both of you are saying.

What FJ is not good at is identifying good indigenous talent. There are guys with electric speed and great goal kicking skills out there that would transform our pedestrian forward line but he has not been willing to take risks by selecting them..

[big tone]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

I have just given you 10 years of recruiting. If you disagree with any of the names or if I have been to harsh on anyone let me know your thoughts. But 6 names in 10 years of drafting speaks for itself. Not saying it's all FJ fault but most of it is.
Interested to hear other peoples thought on my list and the players that they think should be there.
It's no wonder the RFC is where it is.
Hartly IMO did ok early with the likes of Grigg, Houli, Chaplin and Maric but nobody said they were there to be premiership players, they should have been upgraded on by kids FJ picked up,in the draft.

how many did u have when we flogged them by 60 and 40 points? Some of the others should have overtaken them but because they don't get games because list cloggers didn't allow it.

In hindsight we should have gone the slow burn because now it's starting to bite us. As I also said I'm not arguing he's the best out there. Not even sure he's the best at the club right now.

Agree wholeheartedly on the Hartley part. We relaxed on those positions thinking they were covered. When ultimately we should have picked a junior with them.

That's sort of my point. If we had of drafted decent kids they would have knocked the door down in the twos with their performances but they didn't. The Moneyballers earnt their spots up till this year. You cannot blame players from other clubs for keeping our young kids out because let's be honest, they were better.

[tigs2011]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

I have just given you 10 years of recruiting. If you disagree with any of the names or if I have been to harsh on anyone let me know your thoughts. But 6 names in 10 years of drafting speaks for itself. Not saying it's all FJ fault but most of it is.
Interested to hear other peoples thought on my list and the players that they think should be there.
It's no wonder the RFC is where it is.
Hartly IMO did ok early with the likes of Grigg, Houli, Chaplin and Maric but nobody said they were there to be premiership players, they should have been upgraded on by kids FJ picked up,in the draft.

how many did u have when we flogged them by 60 and 40 points? Some of the others should have overtaken them but because they don't get games because list cloggers didn't allow it.

In hindsight we should have gone the slow burn because now it's starting to bite us. As I also said I'm not arguing he's the best out there. Not even sure he's the best at the club right now.

Agree wholeheartedly on the Hartley part. We relaxed on those positions thinking they were covered. When ultimately we should have picked a junior with them.

That's sort of my point. If we had of drafted decent kids they would have knocked the door down in the twos with their performances but they didn't. The Moneyballers earnt their spots up till this year. You cannot blame players from other clubs for keeping our young kids out because let's be honest, they were better.

they should be better than an 18yo though. Problem is the 18yo eventually stagnates. The other issue we have is when FJ has made a mistake the club seems to try save face and keeps blokes too long. Keep turning them over.

Personally I think he's showing real improvement as a recruiter. Dimma from what I've heard doesn't trust youngsters in the team.

If we can get someone better than FJ in then pull the trigger by all means. I forgot the dudes name but the Geelong guy we have now having learnt from wells may be an upgrade.

[tigs2011]

Following on from my post in the Ellis tread, since the 2004 draft only the following players IMO would get a game every week at Hawthorn now-

Lids
Cotch
Rance
Jack
Dusty
Vlastuin

That's 6 players in 10 years, in which all are first rounders.
If you still think FJ is doing a good job then I'll go it in tiggy.
No one is more to blame than this twit.

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

I have just given you 10 years of recruiting. If you disagree with any of the names or if I have been to harsh on anyone let me know your thoughts. But 6 names in 10 years of drafting speaks for itself. Not saying it's all FJ fault but most of it is.
Interested to hear other peoples thought on my list and the players that they think should be there.
It's no wonder the RFC is where it is.
Hartly IMO did ok early with the likes of Grigg, Houli, Chaplin and Maric but nobody said they were there to be premiership players, they should have been upgraded on by kids FJ picked up,in the draft.

The problem is none of our recruits get adequate senior exposure to help fast track development and that is not the recruiters fault. If team selectors continually pick guys like Edwards etc how are guys like McKintosh, macDonough going to get a chance to show us what they can do. Our seconds have been so bad that I feel they actually have been going backwards playing there.
So there probably is some truth in what both of you are saying.

What FJ is not good at is identifying good indigenous talent. There are guys with electric speed and great goal kicking skills out there that would transform our pedestrian forward line but he has not been willing to take risks by selecting them..

agree on the indigenous part. There is a bit more to it than that but he needs to get better at judging character on the indigenous kids

[RedanTiger]

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

Which 2 drafts did he "butcher"?
Clearly you think 2010 is one.
To quote "2008 looks bad but ....", so is that the other one he "butchered"?
BTW both of those drafts were when he had the full recruiting team he has now excepting Hartley, so your under resourced is an excuse and it was his fault.
"If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation." Hmmmm

"FJ needs to stand up for himself and tell Blair that these kids are better than the duds we are picking"
Of those picks above - all before Blair came on board after the 2009 draft - 13 of the 38 were on other clubs lists prior. Only if you ignore FJ's full record, as you have done, can a case be made that Blair is forcing FJ to pick mature players over kids.

"He didn't rate Banfield or Thomas or Hampson"
I'm interested as to how you know this. I am sure that FJ has not come out publicly and bagged players we chose so therefore you must be a close friend who he talks to off-the-record about his personal/different opinions on recruiting. Or maybe you are FJ. Or maybe it's just a lie.

Waiting for an answer to those points which were the basis of my previous post.

[WA Tiger]

I'm still bored....

[tigs2011]

hes butchered 2 drafts. I've said that. He was under resourced at first. Not through his own fault. If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation. The you've got the under resourced development program. I.e. Non existent.

The whole club was a shambles.

All I'm saying is he's done a decent job with what he's had. Dimmas refusal to play talented youngsters has stagnated some. Not saying they're all good. I'm just saying they aren't all duds either.

I think we will find when it's all said and done 4 of the last 5 drafts will be good.

Is he the best recruiter out there? Not on your life. Is he a dud? No.

Which 2 drafts did he "butcher"?
Clearly you think 2010 is one.
To quote "2008 looks bad but ....", so is that the other one he "butchered"?
BTW both of those drafts were when he had the full recruiting team he has now excepting Hartley, so your under resourced is an excuse and it was his fault.
"If people can't see that then it's not worth having this conversation." Hmmmm

"FJ needs to stand up for himself and tell Blair that these kids are better than the duds we are picking"
Of those picks above - all before Blair came on board after the 2009 draft - 13 of the 38 were on other clubs lists prior. Only if you ignore FJ's full record, as you have done, can a case be made that Blair is forcing FJ to pick mature players over kids.

"He didn't rate Banfield or Thomas or Hampson"
I'm interested as to how you know this. I am sure that FJ has not come out publicly and bagged players we chose so therefore you must be a close friend who he talks to off-the-record about his personal/different opinions on recruiting. Or maybe you are FJ. Or maybe it's just a lie.

Waiting for an answer to those points which were the basis of my previous post.

yes the 2008 one. As I said he only chose 2 of them. And sloane would have been the third. And no you're wrong, he was the only recruiter that year.

I shouldn't have said the other part and kept it to myself.

As I was saying though there is a flaw in the rating system with different people rating different types.

[big tone]

I think most of us agree on that bt, problem wasn't getting these guys, was a good move imo, but the fact we're still going down that path and playing these guys ahead of kids that should be going past them is an indictment.

Conca and Ellis would be playing in Hawthorns team imo, Ellis especially, they'd love his run/kicking skills and would find the perfect outside role for him. As for the rest of them, well theyre not even good enough to play in our side according to our coaches so no hope for the hawks. Just not good enough

Ellis and Conca getting a game in front of who? Both are lucky to be in our side on their starts to the year.
More delusional than Dimma.