Can we win a premiership in the next few years

[the claw]

Constructive well done

HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh

Okay against better judgement i will play.
Just a few  questions
How long to win a G/F REALISTICALLY. .?
How many on your list will make it
How Many realistically will we get.
Thats just for starters.
We have  a bottom third list in reality. It won't turn around in a blink of the eye.If we continue to have middle of the road finishes it will be even harder.
Stop hoping for players, Rate players including juniors on what they have done rathjer than potential.Start at a worst case scenario.

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.

Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.

Who are the 4-5 players?

Rance
Lids
Chimp
Jack
Dusty

Cheers 

... the truth about our list.Yet all i see is denial . 4 or 5 real good ones and we are hunky dory lol.
4 or 5 real good players may help us make the a8 if all of our good players stayed healthy.

Confused. The conversation was regarding our top 4-5 players (see above). My argument has nothing to do with 4-5 players turn everything around. Everyone here is arguing that we need to make some bold trades.

I would disagree with your argument that we need a total rebuild.

[tdy]

Constructive well done

HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh

Okay against better judgement i will play.
Just a few  questions
How long to win a G/F REALISTICALLY. .?
How many on your list will make it
How Many realistically will we get.
Thats just for starters.
We have  a bottom third list in reality. It won't turn around in a blink of the eye.If we continue to have middle of the road finishes it will be even harder.
Stop hoping for players, Rate players including juniors on what they have done rathjer than potential.Start at a worst case scenario.

I disagree we are mid ranked as a list.  For us to make top 4 is playing above our talent level but to finish bottom 6 is below it.

I see us as a 7 - 12th level list.  We have a genuine goal kicker, 3 or 4 other A level talent and then it drops off to a lot of B level and some C and D level.  Its not premiership material but its a good start. I reckon we'd really need Rioli, C Ellis and about 4 more to become A graders to win a premiership and thats before Lids gets too old.  I don't see it happening myself unless we swap out our recruiting staff.  National draft or bust but that takes 3 years really to make an A grader.  In the mean time a bit more moneyball to find top up ruckmen and mids.

Note I don't think moneyball is trading away high ND picks, its low daft picks for under rated players

[tdy]

Duds Duds EVERY WHERE DUDS. I love that song because it reflects the truth about our list.Yet all i see is denial . 4 or 5 real good ones and we are hunky dory lol.
4 or 5 real good players may help us make the a8 if all of our good players stayed healthy. But sheesh you people need to wake up look at the actual holes in each area of the list. ffs we have to totally rebuild our ruck stocks and if you took JR and AR out of the equation we need to totally rebuild our kpp stocks.FFS thats just the talls.
AH kid yourselves if you like who gives a stuff anymore? . Kidding ourselves is what we do best.

I think your being a little harsh.  Look at our B's and C's like S Edwards, Ellis, Conca, Houli basically every team has a bunch of them. Someone with a hole in their game.  They aren't duds per se but they are the best thing you have.  What our B's don't do is impact a lot of games like say a Mick Martin used to do.  And we are playing quite a few C's in Astbury, Griffiths
We also have a few D's in Hampson which indicates the huge hole in our ruck stocks.

The aim ought to be to get rid of our D's and C's and have all A's and B's but we're not adding A's at a fast enough rate.  I would not be surprised if by the time Rioli is an A Lids will retire and so too S Edwards and the likes of Rance and Martin will be past their peak.

If anything you could argue we need to find more A's fast, so Yarran type trades are a good thing with this list ATM.
EDIT 2 2nd rounders was above for him, we got done I think given we ought to have known of his problems.

Let's play pretend that Yarran was playing to his potential, Lids hadn't got injured and Myles and Maric hadn't dropped off, we'd have no ruck hole and 6 A graders in Lids, Martin, Cotch, Rance, Reiwoldt, Yarran.  We'd be sitting pretty, probably 7 and 4 not 4 and 7 and the brains trust would be being lauded as geniuses as we push for top 4 again but end up 5th or 6th and maybe win a final.

For me the solution is get rid of FJ and whoever in the recruiting team can't pick talent with round 2 ND or A grade talent with rnd 1 ND.

We need to get 2 or more above average AFL players each year and hopefully an A grader a year and we haven't got that for the last 7 years.  Every year the fans salivate over our draft picks and every year they are poor, we get one good one and maybe they are an A grader, maybe a B.  Vickery was a bust of a pick, Griffiths too.  Even this year we took 5 ND and Rioli is an obvious success but are any others?  I don't hear of any busting for a game based on talent alone.

[tdy]

One risk I did like was McKenzie, even though its gone bad but he sounds like if he had got on the park he could have busted games open.

[the claw]

On this site over the last few years i have heard the following need to go at various stages, i tend to agree  with most as well.

Astbury, Batchelor, Chaplin, Conca, Ellis, Elton, Griffiths, Grigg, houli, Hampson, Hunt, Maric, Morris, Moore, Marcon,  Townsend, Vickery,Could probably add Lambert and Lloyd.
The only player i would be tempted to hang onto is Conca mainly because i would like to see how he goes coming out of defense.

Then there are the juniors with huge question marks over their heads. They could all go either way None have done enough to establish themselves.

Butler, Castagna, Drummond, Lennon, McBean, McKenzie, Soldo, Chol, Moore, Short, I think this list a little underwhelming.They may all make it but i wont be counting my chickens until they do.

People think we dont need a rebuild. If a full on rebuild is not needed it is damn close to it.

What is left, Seniors
Cotchin, Deledio, Edwards,  Grimes, Martin, McIntosh, Miles, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin, Yarran.  Even a few of these blokes i question.Especially in big games under pressure.

Juniors.
C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli, Even these three can be questioned.I put them here based mainly on potential.

The players above can be competetive but the lack of depth and quality smacks you in the face.
There are massive holes in key areas of the list and that is utilising all players.
There will be no quick fix
If we get in say Hurley, Prestia Tomlinson  and a top ND pick it will help us remain a middling side if all things go well it may even help us make the 8.But we will still have the same type of problems we have now and it wont take much to push us back over the cliff.
It will take time to build a strong well balanced list  full of quality and depth.

All of the above counts for nought if we do not first and foremost address FD issues.

[Stalin]

HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh

[Yeahright]

I'm definitely removed from the sell your top tier players strategy. Our oldest "elite" player is Jack who turns 28 this year, plenty of great footy still to play.

Anyone and everyone else outside those top 4-5 players is up for grabs.

Who are the 4-5 players?

Rance
Lids
Chimp
Jack
Dusty

Cheers 

And how many do you class as elite?

[Stalin]

5/5 

[Francois Jackson]

Constructive well done

HaaaarrggghhhHaaaarrggghhh

Okay against better judgement i will play.
Just a few  questions
How long to win a G/F REALISTICALLY. .?
How many on your list will make it
How Many realistically will we get.
Thats just for starters.
We have  a bottom third list in reality. It won't turn around in a blink of the eye.If we continue to have middle of the road finishes it will be even harder.
Stop hoping for players, Rate players including juniors on what they have done rathjer than potential.Start at a worst case scenario.

your willing to trade for picks so Hackson and dimwit can select more duds?

Id rather rely on what we have, because with those 2 choosing we most likely will end up with the same type of hacks.

We are basically screwed until they start cleaning the rot from the top.

[Stalin]

On this site over the last few years i have heard the following need to go at various stages, i tend to agree  with most as well.

Astbury, Batchelor, Chaplin, Conca, Ellis, Elton, Griffiths, Grigg, houli, Hampson, Hunt, Maric, Morris, Moore, Marcon,  Townsend, Vickery,Could probably add Lambert and Lloyd.
The only player i would be tempted to hang onto is Conca mainly because i would like to see how he goes coming out of defense.

Then there are the juniors with huge question marks over their heads. They could all go either way None have done enough to establish themselves.

Butler, Castagna, Drummond, Lennon, McBean, McKenzie, Soldo, Chol, Moore, Short, I think this list a little underwhelming.They may all make it but i wont be counting my chickens until they do.

People think we dont need a rebuild. If a full on rebuild is not needed it is damn close to it.

What is left, Seniors
Cotchin, Deledio, Edwards,  Grimes, Martin, McIntosh, Miles, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin, Yarran.  Even a few of these blokes i question.Especially in big games under pressure.

Juniors.
C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli, Even these three can be questioned.I put them here based mainly on potential.

The players above can be competetive but the lack of depth and quality smacks you in the face.
There are massive holes in key areas of the list and that is utilising all players.
There will be no quick fix
If we get in say Hurley, Prestia Tomlinson  and a top ND pick it will help us remain a middling side if all things go well it may even help us make the 8.But we will still have the same type of problems we have now and it wont take much to push us back over the cliff.
It will take time to build a strong well balanced list  full of quality and depth.

All of the above counts for nought if we do not first and foremost address FD issues.

Griffiths. Conca. Short. Lambert. Lloyd. Are serviceable.  We only need some of them to be role players not stars.

Lennon. McBean. Moore. Chol have excellent upside potentially.

You can question till the cows come home yet

Cotchin, Deledio, Edwards,  Grimes, Martin, McIntosh, Miles, Rance, Riewoldt, Vlastuin, Yarran...

Juniors.
C Ellis, Menadue, Rioli...

Is not a terrible core to build around. With future draft picks trading, free agents its possible to improve the side quickly.

Given the quality of rance and grimes hurley would be a massive addition. Tomlson, Prestia and and an overall smart offseason anything is possible. A new coach and list gurus would obviously help.