Daniel Rioli [merged]

[Slipper]

Fair enough Dougey. I may have been a bit harsh in my assessment.

But surely any time you spend a first round pick you are looking for a player who is as a minimum well above AFL average, hopefully elite. Which is why I compare to Betts and Rioli. And out of interest, Cyril cost his team Pick 12 in a national draft, Daniel cost us pick 15, although I don't think that you can draw too much from that comparison.

Eddie cost cost his initial team pick 3 in the pre-season draft and so did Aaron Davey. The point being made was that you can get small forwards later in the draft. Sure, you can argue you can possibly find gun players late in the draft for any position. But aside from ruckmen, I don't think you could name a position which has as many standout/elite late round picks as small forward. That is further underlined by the fact that we also have Butler and Castagna playing pretty decent footy, and they cost us stuff all. The question that arises from this is do small forward slip to later rounds because teams do not rate them highly enough, or because they are hard to evaluate and therefore get them in the appropriate draft spot. I'd suggest it is a combination of both.

Spending your first round pick on the best available talent and drafting to your needs rarely aligns unless your list is deficient in many areas. I agree we were badly in need of a small crumbing forward. But we also needed a ruckman, and another inside mid just as badly, and I personally thought we would try to use our first pick that year on a KPF (Himmelberg).

Right now on his impact in games, does Daniel Rioli justify the No.15 pick in a draft? That is a very unfair assessment because he is only in the infancy of his career. But so is comparing him to the players drafted after him, especially when they play in different positions. I think Himmelberg, Collins and Partington will in time become very good players

I am glad we have Rioli, and he will be a very good player for us. I just think that pick 15 is too high for a small forward who is not elite, or who cannot run through the midfield. Time will tell if Rioli is either or both of these things, which by my rule of thumb will tell me if he was worth that pick.

[The Machine]

Burton is ahead of Rioli (was a huge risk though) as is Tucker and Dunkley (although Dunkley was much more ready made) and I'd argue Gresham as a small forward is in the discussion too. To say "he's miles ahead of them" is completely off the mark

Burton is playing good footy this year and Dunkley was great last year. Gresham is going along so is Tucker but IMO Rioli impacts games and is tracking ahead of those two. Good players nonetheless.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

Dunkleys already peaked and Riolis star will just continue to rise.

[tony_montana]

Gresham is going to be a star, but i reckon rioli has the rest covered and wouldnt swap him for them.

Melbourne got Garlett for a steal - have always rated him

[big tone]

Burton is ahead of Rioli (was a huge risk though) as is Tucker and Dunkley (although Dunkley was much more ready made) and I'd argue Gresham as a small forward is in the discussion too. To say "he's miles ahead of them" is completely off the mark

Burton is playing good footy this year and Dunkley was great last year. Gresham is going along so is Tucker but IMO Rioli impacts games and is tracking ahead of those two. Good players nonetheless.

Rioli will be a good player for us long term but to say he "impacts games" is a bit rich especially this year.
It's ok to say he is down on form and it doesn't mean he is a shittruck.

[Lozza]

Will be a keeper, it's a marathon not a sprint so plenty of time for him to settle into his role and be a very good player for us for years to come..

[Willy]

Burton is ahead of Rioli (was a huge risk though) as is Tucker and Dunkley (although Dunkley was much more ready made) and I'd argue Gresham as a small forward is in the discussion too. To say "he's miles ahead of them" is completely off the mark

Burton is playing good footy this year and Dunkley was great last year. Gresham is going along so is Tucker but IMO Rioli impacts games and is tracking ahead of those two. Good players nonetheless.

Rioli will be a good player for us long term but to say he "impacts games" is a bit rich especially this year.
It's ok to say he is down on form and it doesn't mean he is a pootruck.

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that his defensive pressure is impacting games for us. No one is saying he's dominating, but he is a big reason why our forward half pressure stats are through the roof this year.

[Required]

Burton is ahead of Rioli (was a huge risk though) as is Tucker and Dunkley (although Dunkley was much more ready made) and I'd argue Gresham as a small forward is in the discussion too. To say "he's miles ahead of them" is completely off the mark

Burton is playing good footy this year and Dunkley was great last year. Gresham is going along so is Tucker but IMO Rioli impacts games and is tracking ahead of those two. Good players nonetheless.

Rioli will be a good player for us long term but to say he "impacts games" is a bit rich especially this year.
It's ok to say he is down on form and it doesn't mean he is a pootruck.

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that his defensive pressure is impacting games for us. No one is saying he's dominating, but he is a big reason why our forward half pressure stats are through the roof this year.

You can see with the eye how good his pressure is 

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

Burton is ahead of Rioli (was a huge risk though) as is Tucker and Dunkley (although Dunkley was much more ready made) and I'd argue Gresham as a small forward is in the discussion too. To say "he's miles ahead of them" is completely off the mark

Burton is playing good footy this year and Dunkley was great last year. Gresham is going along so is Tucker but IMO Rioli impacts games and is tracking ahead of those two. Good players nonetheless.

Rioli will be a good player for us long term but to say he "impacts games" is a bit rich especially this year.
It's ok to say he is down on form and it doesn't mean he is a pootruck.

I don't think it's outrageous to suggest that his defensive pressure is impacting games for us. No one is saying he's dominating, but he is a big reason why our forward half pressure stats are through the roof this year.

^^That's the thing for mine. He might only directly kick a goal a game but he indirectly creates 3-4 more a game with tackling, one percenters, a creative tap/handball and sometimes even just inferred pressure. Best small forward we've had for a long time.

[one-eyed]

Tigers feel at home in Rioli's Garden

afl.com.au
9 June 2017


DANIEL Rioli turned tour guide during Richmond's bye, with a small contingent of Tigers players and coaches joining him on the Tiwi Islands this week for a mid-season break.

Richmond's emerging star was joined in his home community on Garden Island, off the coast of the Northern Territory, by teammates Jack Riewoldt, Jayden Short, Shane Edwards and Dylan Grimes.

Assistant coaches Justin Leppitsch, Xavier Clarke and Craig McRae also made the trip with list manager Dan Richardson, with the group using the club's four-day break to get a better understanding of Rioli's background.

"From the moment we drafted Daniel, we said to Bradley his dad and Belinda his mum that we'd like to come up to the island one day and have an experience like this," Richardson told AFL.com.au.

"The purpose of it was to connect with Dan and his community and learn more about his culture and the challenges he and all kids from the Tiwi Islands can have when they're trying to make a fist of life as far away as Melbourne.

"That was the purpose of it, to develop those connections and give Dan a sense of how interested we are in where he's from and his journey."

Rioli's parents and siblings live in a town of about 500 people on Garden Island, with the Tigers contingent staying in a fishing lodge in the heart of the community.

They visited beaches where the late Richmond star Maurice Rioli spent time with his family and waterholes Daniel Rioli visited as a kid. 

"Daniel was the official tour guide and he was keen to come fishing with us and mud crabbing with us," Richardson said.

"He was always going home for the break, so he had a bit of time just home with his family, but he spent quite a lot of time with us touring around the island.

"He actually had a role in choosing the players this time around that he wanted to share this time with.

"So it was great to see the players and coaches and myself to an extent connecting with each other and doing something completely different to what we'd normally do in the cut and thrust of a footy season."

Richardson said the Tigers group gained an understanding of the challenges faced by young footballers from the Tiwi Islands who leave to pursue careers elsewhere.

Rioli left home at 14 to attend St Patrick's College in Ballarat, following a similar path to uncle Cyril, who moved from Darwin to school in Melbourne before being drafted by Hawthorn. 

"It shows the resilience of people like Daniel and also the family," Richardson said.

"They had the foresight to think it was important enough to send him to boarding school a long way from home because it's an opportunity he should take up.

"It's an opportunity a lot of kids on the Tiwi Islands wouldn't get."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-09/rioli-turns-tour-guide-in-the-tiwi-islands

[the claw]

Burton for me said it at the time and have not seen a thing to change my mind.

I think what gets lost is our pressure has been so poor for so long that when we get some players applting it it is blown out of proportion.
We need All of our players to tackle and apply pressure but they should also be able to impact offensively as well.

I think with all of our little fellas we are only getting one part of the equation atm and it has to improve.
Anyway i still firmly think our structures are wron and will be found out too many smalls and too many of them are only impacting in one area. At the end of the day we need players who are impacting across the board and we definately need more height.

[Willy]

 Claw doesn't rate who we drafted and preferred other options. What a stunning revelation...

Your obsession with three talls is rubbish. The game is constantly evolving and there is no one magic formula. What's important is that you have quality forwards and you play a brand that suits them. See Doggies flag last year.
Also, top heavy teams are getting burnt the other way now more than ever.

[the claw]

Claw doesn't rate who we drafted and preferred other options. What a stunning revelation...

Your obsession with three talls is rubbish. The game is constantly evolving and there is no one magic formula. What's important is that you have quality forwards and you play a brand that suits them. See Doggies flag last year.
Also, top heavy teams are getting burnt the other way now more than ever.

Man im not saying anything different to what you have said there. The only difference is, i will argue strenuously that most sides do indeed have three talls in both defense and the fwd line.It has been a constant for a long time .
No i have not said i dont rate who we have drafted i have said who i preffered  at each pick. I like to think i give good reasons why as well.

What you dont seem to understand is the doggies won a flag with tall players they may not have been kpp height but they had genuine height.Stringer 192cm  Boyd 200cm  Cordy 192cm up fwd and bontompelli 193 rotated thru there, all 190cm plus players up fwd  and that was a make shift fwd line because their bigger talls were cruelled by injury.

Similar scenario down back Hamling 195cm Roberts 196cm , morris 190cm with a 199cm ruckman in roughead. Mate they were the taller side on G/F day.
It is actually sort of what your talking about their talls are mobile quick agile who can run but they are still talls it is a myth this dogs are small.

Yes they won a flag but remember they finished 7th and had a great run At just the right time.I think that 7th placed finish is now being shown for what it is this yr.I actually think they are struggling again this yr because of the lack of good structure and QUALITY TALLS and i think a lack of depth in most areas..I reckon their ladder position at the end of last yr is closer to where they are actually at than their premiership win.
They won a flag and who would not take it but i think they are a bit more like Hawthorn of 2008 than say Hawthorn of 2013.

No other club plays more short players than we do and if your telling me our smalls are quality then your kidding yourself.And if your telling me we play tall enough id say get your freakin hand of it and wake up.

On the smalls well Some of our smalls look promising they have ability and upside but fmd they are not there yet and a few may not even make it despite the hype..

Yep the game continually changes but the game imo is played by more talls 190cm plus than ever.

Oh by the way Three tall fwds and rubbish. Go have a look at the current top two teams and tell me how many 190cm plus players are regulars in each.I can tell ya one thing they dont vplay 10 or 12 blokes under 6ft week in week out. Can say the same thing about premiership teams as well.

[Damo]

They were taller?

Buddy 199
Tippet 202
Naismith 206
X Richards 195

Against

Boyd 200
Roughead 200
Roberts 196

Those were the players 195cm+

If we played today

Nank 199
Jack 195
Astbury 195

Rance just misses at 194, but obviously plays taller than say
Bont at 193. You mention Stringer at 192, so do we count someone like Mcintosh at 192?

I agree we need far more KP depth, but don't pretend the dogs were tall on GF day and use players like Bont (midfielder) and Stringer as reasoning.

[the claw]

They were taller?

Buddy 199
Tippet 202
Naismith 206
X Richards 195

Against

Boyd 200
Roughead 200
Roberts 196

Those were the players 195cm+

If we played today

Nank 199
Jack 195
Astbury 195

Rance just misses at 194, but obviously plays taller than say
Bont at 193. You mention Stringer at 192, so do we count someone like Mcintosh at 192?

I agree we need far more KP depth, but don't pretend the dogs were tall on GF day and use players like Bont (midfielder) and Stringer as reasoning.

Simple what is the definition of a tall player. For most 190CM is the cut off. 190 cm is shaun Grigg a Tall mid. or Bontompelli and Cripps at 193 and 195 they are tall players who happen to be mids.
Stringer is 192cm since when has 192cm not been a tall.As you said Rance is 194cm he is a tall.

When these sort of debates spring up we define players dont we,and the roles they perform mids, third talls  kpp ruckmen.
McIntosh is a third tall defender dont know how many times ive argued that.Some would argue hes a tall mid. Gunston is a third tall fwd.isnt Grimes at 193cm considered a tall?he a third tall though and has been asked to play kp when injury has hit.

As stated the dogs were tall enough on G/F day, they certainly were not short.  Bontompelli, McCrae, tall mids with one going fwd to play third tall in rotations. Is that not what happened.
Boyd 200cm, Stringer 192cm, cordy 192cm. Roberts 196cm, Hamling 195cm, morris 190cm,  and roughhead 199cm. they also had another guy in Wood at 187cm who happened to be exceptional in the air for his height.

sydney well they had Franklin197, Grundy 192 , Laidler 190, Naismith 206 Richards 195 and Tippett 202.they were clearly outnumbered for tall players. Does that mean Grundy  and Laidler below 195cm are not talls as well.

Dont know how many debates ive had on this site about 200cm players as kpps it seems to me not a lot become top notch kpps you only need look at the rfc and Vickery and Griffiths.Tippett who has been mentioned. Ive long argued three talls but not three dinosaurs and ive argued this because it seems it is what most sides have had success with.

Anyway its just my opinion it has not changed much because it seems clubs are having success with it all the time.
You can either look at it and agree or you can disagree its no skin off my nose.