Shane Tuck [merged]

[Tigermonk]

thats part of his teammates not reading the game, He does it so often you think they would wake up after playing with him all them years.

next question 

[bushranger]

When you really look at it we could make a complaint about all our players.
And Tuck is no exception here either, but he does go for the ball a lot more that a few of his team mates.
He deserves to be in the team for his on the ground work he does every week.
Just Rawlings had it in for him.
So its time to move on and pat him on the back instead of stabbing him in the back.

[wayne]

thats part of his teammates not reading the game, He does it so often you think they would wake up after playing with him all them years.

next question 

 

[Penelope]

Gee some people are hard task masters. Poor old tucky is one of the few people at richmond who repeatedly, week in week out puts his body on the line just to get the pill.

However he just throws the ball on his boot without thinking so is an ordinary kick

and

Don't forget the handball over his head in the middle of a pack to no-one.

Thats because a large portion of his posessions are under immense pressure, because he is in the middle of the pack while most of his teamates are waiting for the easy kick, but as monk points out, many of them do not have the awareness that tuck is going to get the ball out of congestion and are not there to back him up.

As for the quick throw the ball to foot under pressure, much better that the quick handball to someone under more pressure many players deliever. How i manage to not throw a stubby at the telly watching players progressively handball to some one in a worse position than them until surprise surprise we have a turnover, is sometimes beyond me. 

Watch Ling from Geelong, if under the pump he wont handball to some bozo standing still watching the world go by, he throws the ball to boot and moves it forward. The difference is his team mates know what to expect, and have a decent football brain so they are more often than not in a position to take advantage of this (play in front), and also good enough to take advantage. More often than not they will at least bottle it up and start again, 20 meters or so closer to goal. The advantage a kick will always have over a handball is if your teammate marks it, he can than take a possession with no pressure on him.

Yes his kicking can let him down if he is linking up, but by no means is he alone there, and as Tuckerbag says, he is a reliable kick for goal. He gets a lot more possessions in the clinches than out wide anyway.

While it would be nice to have a team of hard at it, bottom of the pack, highly skilled players, it is never going to happen. A player with all those attributes is a real gem, and as rare as one.

If Tucky had been traded two or three years ago to a side that had players capable of capitalising on his hard work, people would be screaming the house down as to why they got rid of him.

[bushranger]

This is really pleasing to see that other from our club are supporting Tuck.
Good on all of you that are doing it.
He will prove to all those that think he should have gone next year, that it would have been a big mistake.

[Tigermonk]

Gee some people are hard task masters. Poor old tucky is one of the few people at richmond who repeatedly, week in week out puts his body on the line just to get the pill.

However he just throws the ball on his boot without thinking so is an ordinary kick

and

Don't forget the handball over his head in the middle of a pack to no-one.

Thats because a large portion of his posessions are under immense pressure, because he is in the middle of the pack while most of his teamates are waiting for the easy kick, but as monk points out, many of them do not have the awareness that tuck is going to get the ball out of congestion and are not there to back him up.

As for the quick throw the ball to foot under pressure, much better that the quick handball to someone under more pressure many players deliever. How i manage to not throw a stubby at the telly watching players progressively handball to some one in a worse position than them until surprise surprise we have a turnover, is sometimes beyond me. 

Watch Ling from Geelong, if under the pump he wont handball to some bozo standing still watching the world go by, he throws the ball to boot and moves it forward. The difference is his team mates know what to expect, and have a decent football brain so they are more often than not in a position to take advantage of this (play in front), and also good enough to take advantage. More often than not they will at least bottle it up and start again, 20 meters or so closer to goal. The advantage a kick will always have over a handball is if your teammate marks it, he can than take a possession with no pressure on him.

Yes his kicking can let him down if he is linking up, but by no means is he alone there, and as Tuckerbag says, he is a reliable kick for goal. He gets a lot more possessions in the clinches than out wide anyway.

While it would be nice to have a team of hard at it, bottom of the pack, highly skilled players, it is never going to happen. A player with all those attributes is a real gem, and as rare as one.

If Tucky had been traded two or three years ago to a side that had players capable of capitalising on his hard work, people would be screaming the house down as to why they got rid of him.

Top post some very important points made 

[Penelope]

 
While stats dont always tell the whole story, the corrects stats can put things into perspective. These are the top 10 contested possession winners for the year from the AFL website. I added the % contested and % clangers myself.


Name          Kicks  H/Ball  Total  Marks  Contested  %contested  % effective  clangers  %clangers  Goals  Behinds  %goals

Chris Judd      299   280      579     52         238             41.11             70.98          60            10.36           11     18            37.93
Gary Ablett     252   402      654     81         228            34.86             75.54          50             7.65            24     20             51.06
Dane Swan    401    299     700     149       227            32.43             70.71          57             8.14            17     22             37.78
Joel Selwood  277   344      621     95         214            34.46             74.35          53              8.53            10     9               43.48
Shane Tuck   213   310      523     90         201            38.43              69.41           48              9.18            8       3               61.54
Simon Black   230   311      541     59         198            36.6                67.84          73              13.49        10      7               58.82
Aaron
Sandilands     143   205      348     80          197            56.61             70.69          50              14.37         13       8               56.52
Ryan O'Keefe 287   238      525     95          196            37.33             74.86          63              12              13       7               54.17
Matthew
Priddis            199   309      508     55          196            38.58              70.67          46               9.06           6        7                31.58

[mightytiges]

its obvious you dont rate Tuck MT

No. Nowhere near a A-grade mid that someone with his possession stats should be. It's all very well to win the ball but it's what you do with it that counts also and also in the modern game how strongly you defend. And yes we seem to have the never-ending conundrum of having too many players on our list who either can win the ball but can't use it effectively OR those that could use it but can't win the ball effectively in the first place to do so. 

Using al's list of top contested ballwinner - Who on that list are A-graders? matchwinners? who can't you afford not to tag? Who gives opposition coaches restless nights planning for the upcoming game? Who would other clubs jump at even at the cost of a first round draft pick?

Clearly the answer is NO to all of the above for Tucky. At Richmond - Lids is tagged every week, Foley has been tagged regularly in past, Cuz will at least have a run with player on him. You'd expect Cotch to be tagged when he gets a full preseason under his belt. Opposition coaches don't tag Tucky. They don't care if Tucky gets a heap of footy instead of a Lids say as Tucky doesn't hurt them by foot nor has the speed to break lines and open up the play. He doesn't hurt them where it counts on the scoreboard. Is it Tucky's fault that he is classed as a top 5 mid at Richmond? No. Is it an indictment on the rest of list that he is in our top 5 mids? Yes.

Priddis would be arguably the other B-grader on al's list but he has age on his side that the Eagles have time to add better quality mids around him which is what Worsfold has been building over the past 3 years. At 27 we don't have that time with Tucky as he'll be 30+ by the time our list matures. Tucky was the obvious trade candidate - an expendable mature B-grader. Unfortunately it was the wrong year to do it as other clubs were willing to trade name players with speed and that killed Tucky's trade value. No one was interested in him which shows how little opposition clubs rate Tucky. Hardwick coming from Hawthorn would've known that too. I would have Jacko in tradable category as well but the Club (over)-rates him as well and, like Priddis, Jacko still has age on his side. Others here would have had Foley as trade bait and I can understand that too but at full fitness Foley has been damaging in games with his centre clearance bursts on goal.

I find it odd that people bag the state of our list and yet when the club finally after 5 years attempts to trade an expendable mature age player for a decent pick they don't want to let him go.

[Ramps]

Tuck is a turnover merchant, doesnt look where he kicks it, and he is one of many unfortunately that we have on our list. He, McMahon and the others who will survive this years cut more from good luck than management will be gone at the end of next year. We need to get better players especially in the middle. As long as we have players who turnover the footy we are going nowhere fast as a club.

[Tigermonk]

Let me tell you this way 
Tuck is a blocker in the midfield & his not meant to get the ball,  but because our other midfielders (excluding cousins) no-one is willing to win the hardball
So who gets the hardball its Tuck, the one who is most times getting up off the pack last
Foley is pee weak & waits for other to do the hard stuff & cant read the play most bounces anyway.
He too small to be a midfielder & get pushed off the ball too easy.
Jackson couldnot follow a hen with its head cut off properly, his always standing attack side of the player his tagging why l love to play football on him.
A punch to the kidneys each contest & push him into the contest his a walkover.
God help Richmond if they buy midfielders again because to build a team you need a FF & CHF & a mobile Ruckman who defends & attacks
we got no-one who can dominate them posistions so we must get them this draft
If l was taking anyone l would take Connerly, Butcher, who are both Ruckmen & attacking forwards who drop back & defend when in the ruck
would Put Vickery in the Ruck changing with Connerly at 203cm who is at CHF which enables them to change quickly &  Butcher at FF a goalkicker
we have the opertunity to get Connerly in the PSD & take Butcher with our first pick & you have the talls to build around & KPP complete for Ruck & Forwards.
Thursfield at CHB should be right with a preseason & McGuane at FB with them lanky arms become a Gadget  that KP backmen complete.
The you put Deledio, Cousins, Tambling Jackson Tuck in the midfield & put the squirts anywhere you want
Wanna kick goals every game add Kingy, Nahas, Foley & Newman in the forward line you got a whole mix of mongrel , speed, snekyness & a boom kicker
The backline you put the new kids on the block & teach them how to come out of the backline playing long direct football instead of this waiting around chip around rubbish
The bench well the others could fight for that but l would have Collins Hislop Post Graham. Richo wouldnot be in my side sorry to say.

[Tigermonk]

While stats dont always tell the whole story, the corrects stats can put things into perspective. These are the top 10 contested possession winners for the year from the AFL website. I added the % contested and % clangers myself.


Name          Kicks  H/Ball  Total  Marks  Contested  %contested  % effective  clangers  %clangers  Goals  Behinds  %goals

Chris Judd      299   280      579     52         238             41.11             70.98          60            10.36           11     18            37.93
Gary Ablett     252   402      654     81         228            34.86             75.54          50             7.65            24     20             51.06
Dane Swan    401    299     700     149       227            32.43             70.71          57             8.14            17     22             37.78
Joel Selwood  277   344      621     95         214            34.46             74.35          53              8.53            10     9               43.48
Shane Tuck   213   310      523     90         201            38.43              69.41           48              9.18            8       3               61.54
Simon Black   230   311      541     59         198            36.6                67.84          73              13.49        10      7               58.82
Aaron
Sandilands     143   205      348     80          197            56.61             70.69          50              14.37         13       8               56.52
Ryan O'Keefe 287   238      525     95          196            37.33             74.86          63              12              13       7               54.17
Matthew
Priddis            199   309      508     55          196            38.58              70.67          46               9.06           6        7                31.58

Well AL it looks like we got to defend Tuck this year.
& his in for a ripper season 

[Penelope]

Tuck is a turnover merchant

Ramps, the stats don't seem to back up that claim, as his percentage of clangers seem to be on par with some of the elite of the comp, unless of course turnovers are not classed as clangers.

This isn't to say he is in their class. As MT points out, what separates tuck from these guys is how damaging they can be with the ball, something stats dont show (except perhaps goal assists).

His percentage of kicks that are effective is also there abouts, except compared to Selwood., O'keefe and Ablett, who are a notch above the rest of the pack here in this list.

While Tuck does not have the class of these guys, through hard work he gets some important statistics on par with them. Is he in the elite of the comp? No, but I dont think any one would try to make that claim. By the same token he is a fair way off being the dud some try to make him out to be.

If he was surrounded by footballers with the nouse and ability to take advantage of his hard work, I doubt this conversation would even take place.

[Tigermonk]

Tuck is a turnover merchant

Ramps, the stats don't seem to back up that claim, as his percentage of clangers seem to be on par with some of the elite of the comp, unless of course turnovers are not classed as clangers.

This isn't to say he is in their class. As MT points out, what separates tuck from these guys is how damaging they can be with the ball, something stats dont show (except perhaps goal assists).

His percentage of kicks that are effective is also there abouts, except compared to Selwood., O'keefe and Ablett, who are a notch above the rest of the pack here in this list.

While Tuck does not have the class of these guys, through hard work he gets some important statistics on par with them. Is he in the elite of the comp? No, but I dont think any one would try to make that claim. By the same token he is a fair way off being the dud some try to make him out to be.

If he was surrounded by footballers with the nouse and ability to take advantage of his hard work, I doubt this conversation would even take place.

 

[mightytiges]

If he was surrounded by footballers with the nouse and ability to take advantage of his hard work, I doubt this conversation would even take place.

Possibly true if Tucky still didn't need to be in our top half-dozen mids. The problem is at 27 going on 28 in December by the time we could put those classier players around him he'll be on the wrong side of 30.

[Tigermonk]

MT the main problem down thier is the players dont Jell together
They dont know each others game & dont play for each other
they play as they train pushing vans across ovals 
shows out by a mile when Richo leads & gets ignored