Major stuff up in Freo-Saints game

[mightytiges]

WOW! 

It's a just decision but the AFL have opened up a can of worms for themselves. Unless they argue one of the umps did hear the siren then you'd expect there would be a need for a rule change to say a match is ended by the siren and not by the ump putting his arms up in the air and blowing his whistle.

[one-eyed]

Fremantle wins
Herald-Sun
03may06

AFL Commission apologises to the clubs, players, and fans

FREMANTLE was awarded victory and four competition points from its disputed match against St Kilda, the AFL Commission ruled in Melbourne tonight.
   
Fremantle led Sunday's match in Launceston by a point when the siren sounded.

But the umpires did not hear it and St Kilda scored a behind to level the scores before the match was brought to an end.

The Dockers lodged a protest over the result, with the AFL Commission deliberating for more than four hours before awarding the points to the Dockers.

The commission acknowledged it was an "extraordinary situation", but ruled the game ended immediately after the siren sounded.

The commission has ordered that all sound systems at AFL venues be investigate to ensure they are loud enough.

AFL Commission chairman Ron Evans acknowledged there would be many unhappy with the decision, but said the league took full responsibility for the debacle.

He said the commission believed Fremantle had rightfully won the match, with the timekeeper making an error by not holding down the siren once the umpires had not heard it.

"The AFL accepts full responsibility for what took place and unreservedly apologises to the clubs involved, the players, and football fans," Evans told a media conference.

Evans said the commission had considered three major things when making its decision: interpreting the rules correctly, ensuring the game was played fairly, and that the umpire would have given the appropriate signal to end the match if not for extraordinary circumstances.

"The match concluded immediately after the siren was first sounded in the final quarter," Evans said.

"The effect of this interpretation is that the Fremantle Football Club won the match."

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,19013768%255E661,00.html

[Fluffy Tiger]

There may be canned worms everywhere but they did the right thing.


mmmm   Canned worms

[Bulluss]

LMAO@ Grant Thomas and the Saints getting bent over and given a right royal rimming 

I hate that bloke so much, he is a tosser.

[one-eyed]

AFL Statement re Launceston
7:20:35 PM Wed 3 May, 2006
Ron Evans
Australian Football League

MEDIA STATEMENT BY RON EVANS, AFL CHAIRMAN

AFL COMMISSION DECIDES THAT FREMANTLE WINS MATCH AGAINST ST KILDA

We have considered detailed submissions from the Fremantle and St. Kilda Football Clubs and a report on the investigation carried out by our administration in relation to the circumstances surrounding the finish of last Sunday’s game between St. Kilda and Fremantle at Aurora Stadium in Launceston.

As the organisation charged with the management of the national competition, the AFL accepts full responsibility for what took place and unreservedly apologises to the clubs involved, the players and all football fans.

Since Sunday’s incident the AFL has acted decisively in moving quickly to investigate the incident, seeking submissions from the competing clubs and compiling that evidence for the Commission to consider. It was vital that this process be thorough, fair and just. It was also important that the clubs be given time to prepare their submissions.

 
Both clubs acknowledged today that it was right and proper that the Commission determine this matter.

Before outlining the decision, I would like to emphasise that the following issues guided our deliberations on this matter:

- First, the correct interpretation of the Laws of the Game and the AFL rules and

- Second, the objective of our game is to ensure that the game of Australian football is played in a fair manner and the spirit of true sportsmanship.

- Third, that, but for the extraordinary circumstances that existed at the end of this match, the umpire would have given the appropriate signal to end the match.

We have listened to the submissions made by both clubs and considered the evidence put before the Commission today.

I will now read the decision of the AFL Commission. It reads.

The Commission understands and accepts that there will be significant debate over the outcome of today’s hearing and the final decision. However it is the responsibility of the AFL Commission to administer the game in the best interests of the competition. That is what we have done today.

The objective of today’s hearing was to determine the outcome of the protest submitted by the Fremantle Football Club.

But the AFL Commission also acknowledges the importance of ensuring such an incident is not repeated.

The AFL Commission also has given its support to moves by the AFL’s Executive and Football Operations Department to consider ways in which the potential for error is minimised in the future. The Commission has instructed that these processes be in place for this weekend’s matches. Those processes include the following list of action points, applicable to every match at every stadium in which AFL matches are played:

1. All AFL timekeepers will be instructed about their obligations and reminded of the process in correctly signalling the end of each quarter and their obligations and requirements under the rules.

2. An immediate review of the siren and audio system at each AFL venue to check the decibel level of each siren.

3. Investigation of new technology to ensure that field umpires are alerted immediately the siren sounds.

In conclusion I would like to thank all the members of the AFL Commission for their prompt and considered deliberation of this matter. I would also like to thank the St Kilda and Fremantle Football Clubs and their representatives for their assistance and the manner in which they have approached what has been a difficult issue for all parties.

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=aflfocus&spg=display&articleid=262774

[DallasCrane]

hehe worms.

I think the AFL has done the right thing.
It had nothing to do with whether the umpire had raised his arms. There was nothing to raise his arms to!

btw I don't think this will open a can of worms- the administrators are on notice to do their job properly and, I'm sure, will.

On a side note this debacle has once again shown that Adrian Anderson is out of his depth in his position. I'm not being ageist by saying that, there would be 33yo's who are capable of that job but he aint one of them.

[one-eyed]

Report to:
Adrian Anderson
General Manager – Football Operations
AFL Headquarters
GPO Box 1449
Melbourne Vic 2001

Subject: Investigation into the conclusion of the AFL match between the St Kilda Football Club and the Fremantle Football Club at Aurora Stadium, Launceston, 30 April 2006.

1) Information
AFL Investigation Officer’s Allan Roberts and Bill Kneebone were asked to conduct an investigation to ascertain the relevant facts of the conclusion of the match between St Kilda vs Fremantle.

Action Taken: The following persons have been interviewed and tape recordings/transcripts are attached.

2) Field Umpires
(a) Matthew Nicholls (Controlling umpire)
(b) Michael Vozzo
(c) Hayden Kennedy

3) Field Umpire Observer
Graham Stagg

4) Emergency Field Umpire
Brett Rosebury

5) Official Independent AFL Timekeepers
(a) Max Harvey
(b) Mal McKenzie

6) Tess McManus (Ground Operations Co-ordinator)
(Match Manager for the game between St Kilda vs Fremantle)

7) Nigel Baker (Re-Cab Transport)
(located in corporate box immediately adjoining the timekeepers box)

Facts Ascertained from Interviews
Timekeeper Max Harvey sounds the siren to signify the expiration of 20 minutes of actual playing time in the final quarter at the correct time, however the field umpires did not acknowledge the siren because they did not hear it.

Harvey has stated that he made a mistake, which he cannot explain in only sounding the siren on the first occasion for a brief time (he says five (5) to ten (10) seconds), without receiving acknowledgement from the umpire. On viewing the video replay he agrees that the field umpire did not acknowledge hearing the siren. This resulted in the game continuing for some ten (10) seconds after the siren had been sounded for the first time.

During that time player Baker of the St Kilda Football Club kicked a point (the first point). When the siren was sounded for the second time, field umpire Hayden Kennedy ran to where field umpire Nicholls was standing and informed him the siren had sounded to end the game.

After the siren was sounded for the second time, Umpire Kennedy notified umpire Nicholls that the siren had sounded when the ball was in transit after player Baker had kicked it. As player Baker was infringed immediately after kicking the first point, he was awarded a free kick. The point first kicked by player Baker was cancelled. He took the free kick which resulted in a point.

Timekeeper Harvey has viewed the video replay and has agreed that he made a mistake, was most apologetic and offered his resignation.

Tess McManus was at the umpires interchange bench during the game and she did not hear the siren sound on the first occasion. When she stood up from her seated position and was standing on the ground, she heard the siren sound on the second occasion.

Field Umpire Nicholls did not hear the siren at any time, and he only became aware of the siren being sounded when he was advised by umpire Hayden Kennedy.

Field Umpire Kennedy, heard a dull and quick sound towards the end of the game however, he concluded it was not the siren because it wasn’t continuous and umpire Vozzo indicated that he hadn’t heard the siren either.

After the siren was sounded for the first time the game continued for about ten (10) to twelve (12) seconds and then player Baker picked up the ball and kicked the first point. When the ball was in mid air, umpire Kennedy heard the siren sound. This was the second sounding of the siren. At this time umpire Kennedy was running forward of the centre half back position for St Kilda and he ran quickly down the ground to where umpire Nicholls was located and told him he heard the siren sound when the ball was in mid air after player Baker had first kicked it.

Late in the game umpire Vozzo was located at the edge of the centre square on St Kilda’s half forward line when he heard a light muffled sound, but concluded it was not the siren because it was not continuous and he had no other indication from umpire Kennedy. Umpire Vozzo did not hear the siren when it was sounded for the second time. He became aware that the siren had been sounded because of the actions of umpire Kennedy.

McKenzie the second timekeeper, described the process that occurred in the timekeepers box. He stated that he operated the time on clock for the first and third quarters and timekeeper Harvey operated the time clock for the second and fourth quarters. Harvey was in charge of the siren at all times. He did not see any umpire acknowledge the sound of the siren when it was first sounded. McKenzie stated that from the timekeepers box it was difficult to see the umpire, when the siren was sounded on the first occasion. He was not watching because he was looking down and filling in the time card.

Nigel Baker (Re-Cab Transport) attends regular games at the ground and during the match was located in the corporate box immediately next to the timekeepers box. He attends the ground regularly and he could hear the siren and it was operated normally throughout the game. He could see the timekeepers clock and was watching the countdown. He saw the siren button pressed for the first sounding of the siren and he heard the siren. The timekeepers were looking down doing some paperwork. He noticed that the game was still going on. A person from the corporate box tapped on the timekeepers window to let them know that the play was still going on. The timekeeper then sounded the siren for the second time. He estimated that when the siren was sounded the first time, it was sounded for only two (2) to three (3) seconds.

Graham Stagg, Field Umpire Observer, was located in the new grandstand on the wing of the ground within a glass box. He heard the siren up until the end of the third quarter, he only heard the siren when it was sounded on the second occasion after St Kilda player Baker had disposed of the ball.

Brett Rosebury, Emergency Field Umpire was located within the interchange area of the boundary. He only heard the second sounding of the siren after player Baker had kicked the ball.

9) Television Replay
The television replay of the final stage of the game clearly shows that the field umpire did not acknowledge hearing the siren when it was first sounded.

The replay also shows the game continued to be played for some ten (10) seconds before the siren was sounded on the second occasion.

10) Comments
It would appear that the timekeeper(s) have not complied with (Law 10.4.1 End of Quarter)

Allan Roberts
AFL Investigations Officer

Bill Kneebone
AFL Investigations Officer

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=262773

[mjs]

Quote

"As player Baker was infringed immediately after kicking the first point, he was awarded a free kick. The point first kicked by player Baker was cancelled. He took the free kick which resulted in a point."

For the goal umpire to have waved the flag he must have been given the "all clear" by one of the umpires. A second umpire must have over-ruled that and awarded a free kick and the fllags got crossed.

Michael Roberts on SEN claimed that one of the umpires wanted to give a 50 metre penalty to Baker but was over-ruled. If that's true it must have meant that all three umpires were making decisions - one gives all clear, one gives free kick and the other gives 50m but is over-ruled.

It was classic viewing.

[mightytiges]

LMAO@ Grant Thomas and the Saints getting bent over and given a right royal rimming 

I hate that bloke so much, he is a tosser.

Saints supporters aren't too happy about it  . And they accuse us of ripping up our membership card  .

This couldn't happen to a nicer bunch  who are so cocky they think the flag is their destiny.

Take this to court or I will not renew my membership. 2006 will be the last time this club see one red cent from me unless it fights this complete travesty in a court of law.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18894

Pure Gold 

[one-eyed]

Our president was surprised:

Pandora's box fear
Jon Pierik and Michael Stevens
04may06

"I suppose that's the concerning thing, does it set a precedent?" March said. "Does it change the way things are done?

"The rules are there for the competition. Whether you like them or not, they are the rules.

"I am surprised by the decision. It just opens a can of worms. You don't won't to go down that path."

Full article: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,19018505%255E11088,00.html
[/quote

[Tiger Spirit]

Before this, I just thought the AFL was a farce and a joke.  Now I know for sure they are.

The AFL has made a rod for their own back, because they made a decision for ‘now’, based on emotion.  And they have to deal with everything that goes with that sort of decision making.

As far as I can see, the good of the game wasn’t even considered and, in the long run, it is the game that will have to pay for this precedent.  Not the people who made the decision.

It wasn’t just 2 or 4 points that were at stake, it was the professionalism, integrity and standing of the game.

The AFL now looks like a spineless body, incapable of making a hard decision when it has to be made.

If people at the AFL are naïve enough to think that this ends here, then they are kidding themselves.

‘Can of worms’ doesn’t even begin to describe how this could all unfold down the track, when the rules of the game aren’t enough to bring a result to a match.

This decision says that the AFL wants people to abide by the rules; when it suits them.

[Piping Shrike]

I think they have interpreted the rules correctly - they haven't changed them. Everyone is focussing on the second rule (the umpire signal), but it relies on the first (the siren). If the first doesn't happen then the second rule is redundant. The issue is what replaces the failure to carry out the first one. The rules don't make any provision for this so the correct ruling is the one that best matches the intention of the rules, and I reckon that's pretty clear.

[Tiger Spirit]

Everyone has their opinion as to what the right result is.  To me, the whole crux of the matter is that this decision has the potential to take the game/competition in a direction it doesn’t want to go in.  That is far more important than who did or didn’t get the points.

Regardless of how we view what happened in this game, ultimately, the umpire’s decision is no longer final.  And because of this decision, the game is now open to all sorts of legal involvement down the track.

Who is naïve enough to think that this sort of thing didn’t occur in the past, only we never heard about it?  The umpire calls an end to the game and that should be the end of any game.  Not this let’s wait a week to see who puts in the best submission and has the most public sympathy.

It may have been the time keeper this week, but next time it’ll be something else that doesn’t work as it should and we’ll go through a similar drama again.  Who needs or wants a competition run that way?

The AFL caused a major stuff up.  On WLF last night, Clinton Grybas said that they had been saying for two years that this sort of thing had been an issue and nothing was done about it.  After the horse has bolted, the AFL will do something about it, but not before they’ve cast a cloud over the way the competition is run.

Who pays for it?  The game does and not those in charge.  They just make the decision that takes the heat off them for the moment and then leave the ramifications of their decision making up to others to deal with, further down the track.

[WilliamPowell]

Everyone has their opinion as to what the right result is.  To me, the whole crux of the matter is that this decision has the potential to take the game/competition in a direction it doesn’t want to go in.  That is far more important than who did or didn’t get the points.

Regardless of how we view what happened in this game, ultimately, the umpire’s decision is no longer final.  And because of this decision, the game is now open to all sorts of legal involvement down the track.

 

Beautiful said TS.

The thing is we have had errors made in the past that have directly impacted on a games result. Remember the Aussie Jones out on the full that was given as a point agaisnt the Lions. Points being paid as goals, goals been given as points and the competition has lived with it. People haven't protested etc.

This decision may make people feel better and all warm and fuzzy but in the long term at what cost