Author Topic: Jacob Hopper [merged]  (Read 49558 times)

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #300 on: April 14, 2023, 11:30:20 PM »
Best game for the Club tonight

He was good the other week against Adelaide but better tonight

Was our best by a country mile.
The club that keeps giving.

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #301 on: April 15, 2023, 09:28:32 AM »
Who gives a stiff if he was good. The pair of them play for themselves as they did for gws.

Complete and utter waste of time picking them up especially hopper at his age. Pick them up and we finish 12th is just fantastic isn’t it.

If it was all about clearances then we would have gone after Mitchell, and one of them. 2 of them is garbage.

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Offline TigerLand

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #302 on: April 15, 2023, 11:25:21 AM »
I think this mindset is overs and overshadows the biggest issue - Ball movement and leadership. Our game style is rubbish.

You always, always need contested mids to get the ball first. Always. These are very hard to find and are just about always developed through the AFL system compared to other positions you can find mature aged / rookies - small forwards (Butler, George), Rucks (Nank/Soldo) and key backs (Grimes, Young).

Our track record of finding good first round picks and developing them is awful. I'm not convinced we would have drafted anything equivalent of Taranto and Hopper in the draft. Where are Conca, Collier Dawkins, Corey Ellis, Lennon? Chuck in Coleman Jones too.

The decision to trade these guys will only impact us in 5-7 years time when they have retired and the equivalent drafted players are 25. Making this an issue is their 5 game is a ridiculous narrative being spun by the media.
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #303 on: April 15, 2023, 05:22:30 PM »
Jack
Rioli
Cotch
Balta
Rance
Gibcus
Dusty

That’s modern day first round picks/early 2. You can’t throw conca era as a suitable argument. Times have changed and we hope we aren’t going back to those days.

I standby by what I said. If it was about clearances then there were much cheaper options. We don’t have a premiership side, and these blokes especially hopper would be a nice selection  to round off a premiership side like prestia was.

I see zero benefit in picking up players who help you finish lower. Our list is in terrible shape, on every line.
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Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #304 on: April 15, 2023, 08:29:21 PM »
, and these blokes especially hopper would be a nice selection  to round off a premiership side like prestia was.


Sorry I have to ask what do you mean about Prestia "rounding off a premiership side"?

He wasn't important to us winning those premierships?

Seriously,  I have no idea what you mean

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Offline TigerLand

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #305 on: April 15, 2023, 11:18:39 PM »
Jack
Rioli
Cotch
Balta
Rance
Gibcus
Dusty

That’s modern day first round picks/early 2. You can’t throw conca era as a suitable argument. Times have changed and we hope we aren’t going back to those days.

I standby by what I said. If it was about clearances then there were much cheaper options. We don’t have a premiership side, and these blokes especially hopper would be a nice selection  to round off a premiership side like prestia was.

I see zero benefit in picking up players who help you finish lower. Our list is in terrible shape, on every line.

Cotchin and Dusty are only inside mids on that list. And both were pick 2 and 3. The picks we gave up were not that high. To get good inside mids you generally have to have high picks which we didn't have. (Petrecca, Oliver, Rowell, Cripps, Bont, Macrae). I don't see the picks we had solving out biggest issue of having no contested mids for clearance. Even if we did trade in a worldy they aren't peaking for 2-4 years anyway.

Our premierships were largely complimented by rookie picks (Short, Baker, Butler, Castagna, Soldo), mature aged (Broad, Pickett), pre season picks (Grimes, Houli) and traded players (Prestia, Caddy, Nank, Lynch, Grigg). Gone are the days of stock piling high draft picks and winning flags (Hawthorn only example). Saints did it and couldn't win one.

I'm not worried that losing a couple of licks will be end of world. Much more concerned with current group confidence, game plan and leadership. Those things wins you flags.
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #306 on: April 16, 2023, 08:41:57 AM »
Jack
Rioli
Cotch
Balta
Rance
Gibcus
Dusty

That’s modern day first round picks/early 2. You can’t throw conca era as a suitable argument. Times have changed and we hope we aren’t going back to those days.

I standby by what I said. If it was about clearances then there were much cheaper options. We don’t have a premiership side, and these blokes especially hopper would be a nice selection  to round off a premiership side like prestia was.

I see zero benefit in picking up players who help you finish lower. Our list is in terrible shape, on every line.

Cotchin and Dusty are only inside mids on that list. And both were pick 2 and 3. The picks we gave up were not that high. To get good inside mids you generally have to have high picks which we didn't have. (Petrecca, Oliver, Rowell, Cripps, Bont, Macrae). I don't see the picks we had solving out biggest issue of having no contested mids for clearance. Even if we did trade in a worldy they aren't peaking for 2-4 years anyway.

Our premierships were largely complimented by rookie picks (Short, Baker, Butler, Castagna, Soldo), mature aged (Broad, Pickett), pre season picks (Grimes, Houli) and traded players (Prestia, Caddy, Nank, Lynch, Grigg). Gone are the days of stock piling high draft picks and winning flags (Hawthorn only example). Saints did it and couldn't win one.

I'm not worried that losing a couple of licks will be end of world. Much more concerned with current group confidence, game plan and leadership. Those things wins you flags.

well we have holes in just about every facet of our club right now.  Our coaching and game plan has been shocking.

Its not about stock piling its about getting talent through the door. I cant see much talent in our midfield if i'm being honest. Bolton is too much of a fairy for me and is on when  he wants to.

Our guns have past it and who is our emerging talent now? Ross, Hugo, Mansell? They are poo.

, and these blokes especially hopper would be a nice selection  to round off a premiership side like prestia was.


Sorry I have to ask what do you mean about Prestia "rounding off a premiership side"?

He wasn't important to us winning those premierships?

Seriously,  I have no idea what you mean



Who said he wasnt important? We picked him up as the club knew we were close. A year later we are winning flags. The thinking is now we are 3-6 years away from flags so i see zero benefit in having both of these boys espeically one that will be over 30 by the time we contest based on our list demographic.

Also everyone seems to forget what we actually received in return for Dion.

Richmond will get Prestia and pick No.24 (Caddy) and send pick No.6 and their future second-round pick to Gold Coast.

This is what we gave up for Hopper.

Tigers in a swap for Richmond's future first-round pick and pick No.31 in this draft, with Hopper and late Giants picks (No.53 and 63) going back to the Tigers. Its looking like a  top 5 pick now.

Another point is Dion was younger than Hopper was he not? Just turned 24 when we drafted him.. Hopper will be 27 by the start of next season. That in my view is a mistake. Happy to be proven wrong and i hope i am, but as of now i would say its not looking a good trade if we finish in the same spot without him and that pick ends up another Dusty.

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Offline TigerLand

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #307 on: April 16, 2023, 10:01:24 AM »
Saying Hopper will be 27 at start of next year's season for a pick 5 and the next Dusty is the most glass half empty opinion possible.

You could go the other way and say we got Hopper at 25 years old and avoided picking up Corey Ellis.

We will win a number of games this year and can't see us getting a top 10 pick. We won't finish below
Hawks
North
Eagles
GWS
Gold Coast
----

Next group is a bit of a lottery and will probably be decided based on injuries and ease of draw. These teams are making up numbers and realistically aren't winning the flag this year knocking off a Melb Lions Pies Swans. I'm being kind to Saints who look great at the moment but realistically I can't see them beating one of those top 4 sides

Crows
Essendon
Freo
Cats
Tigers
Dogs
Port
Carlton

So to avoid doomsday at worse we finish in the bottom 3rd of that middle group and we get pick 8 or 9. Let's also not forget that the Taranto deal was done early for unders so GWS could trade up for Cadman and in good faith we would balance that deal out for Hopper for slightly overs so the combo of the two deals were fair.
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Offline the claw

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #308 on: April 16, 2023, 11:39:26 AM »
lol you cannot solve the problem in the first place if you dont actually draft any inside mids or take a minimalistic approach.
Same for key fwds. year on year some of us have been saying we need to fix these areas and not with late nd and rookie picks or doubtful mid season picks.

Look im viewed as a mug by most but even the last two drafts and i can go back further than that i called for just Taranto and we keep our pick 31 and stay in this years first round.

The year before we had 5 picks. I voiced the opinion at the time that we should do everything to get another pick. As each pick came up i went Erasmus big mid, JVR kpf , Sonsie sml mid, Bazzo kpd, Howes tall fwd but stated was happy with the Clarke pick. Player i mentioned with that extra pick i wanted was Owens Windhager Draper all bigger mids  and Jack Williams a kpf.

Throw in pick 31 and this years first minus Hopper and how much better does it look going fwd.We could have added a mature mid instead of Hopper thru f/a or rookie draft or even a cheap trade.

Just saying with hindsight that looks a far better approach to what we did and im just a chump on the outside looking in. but there is no doubt we have not been targeting the right players where we had the biggest deficiency.
Yes we ended up trading for two big mids it was forced on us in many ways because the list management was so poor.

We are still in the same predicament of needing quality young key fwds and big bodied well rounded mids in development. FMD this has been going on for years and still here we are needing to address the problem of getting the right young types into our system.

Lets go back three drafts  and take note of the player types and size of recruits and where taken. This is just drafts.
2022  Bauer tall fwd msd, Smith 49 sml/def, Green 55 sml/mid, Rookie Campbell sml/fwd. Young mature kpd. Nyuon rookie.
2021 Parker med/fwd msd, 9 Gibcus kpd, 17 Brown med hb, Sonsie sml/mid, Banks med/hb, Clarke sml fwd.
2020 40 Ryan ruck, MRJ 51 sml/fwd,  traded pick 20.

Its similar going right back with minimal investment in bigger mids and key fwds. The few we have taken have been busts but that should not surprise people when you look at where we are taking most of them.

Offline pmac21

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #309 on: April 16, 2023, 02:39:30 PM »
We got fleeced, they were happy to let him go.  We should have stood firm with just the one pick.

Offline Andyy

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #310 on: April 16, 2023, 03:03:13 PM »
Pick 5 would be tough to swallow but I don't think we'll finish this low. Probably end up being pick 10-12 at least.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #311 on: April 23, 2023, 05:34:11 PM »
Jacob Hopper says the Tigers will relish the chance to correct their form against Melbourne

Glenn McFarlane
HeraldSun
23 April 2023


Richmond midfielder Jacob Hopper isn’t fazed by the criticism levelled at the club’s midfield over its centre clearance concerns this season, insisting Monday night’s Anzac Eve game against Melbourne provides the perfect platform to turn it around.

Hopper is the first to concede it hasn’t been a smooth start to 2023 for the Tigers, with the club having won only one game so far this season.

An injury crisis hasn’t helped their cause, with a number of critics suggesting the club’s premiership window has shut with one saying the Tigers “sold the farm” by offering Hopper and Tim Taranto seven-year deals to leave the Giants for Punt Rd.

None of the talk worries 26-year-old Hopper, whose focus is far more on getting an outcome against the Demons than worrying about what the outside world is saying about his club.

“That’s all part of the game, people are always going to comment on things when you aren’t winning games,” Hopper explained. “But if you look at it, we haven’t had a lot of things go our way. If a few of those results had gone the other way, it would be a very different story.”

“We are really good at focusing on what happens inside the four walls at the club and on being as honest as we can be. We haven’t quite been at our best, but we are really upbeat.

“I know it is harder to stay positive when you are not getting the outcomes. We feel like we are playing some good footy, we’ve just got to start finding a way to win some more games.”

Hopper has made a solid start to his time at Richmond, with his 32-disposal, five-clearance, five-tackle effort in the loss to the Swans last week his best showing in yellow and black.

But he knows there is plenty of improvement left.

Playing footy in the game’s heartland is something Hopper is relishing. It has provided him with the opportunity to play in front of the massive Tiger army, but it has also brought with it greater attention than he received in his 114 games across seven seasons with the Giants.

Some might see that as a double-edged sword, but Hopper wouldn’t have it any other way.

“You can’t have one without the other,” the 26-year-old said. “You have to embrace it all.”

“You get a greater exposure to the game here (in Melbourne) and you get to experience massive games such as Anzac Eve. The spotlight is there, you cannot shy away from it.”

Hopper said the transition to the Tigers has been seamless from a personal perspective, made all the more easier by having his great mate Taranto joining the club at the same time.

“It’s been a great transition,” he said. “I am truly loving it, it’s an incredible experience to come to such a great club, and to forge relationships with great people.

“We will continue to forge those relationships … It really feels like home for me now.

“I’ve got my buddy here (Taranto) so that has been huge for me, especially in the early stages. It was great to have the support network as we’ve played a lot of footy together.”

Hopper said the prospect of playing in blockbuster games such as Anzac Eve played a part in his decision to choose Richmond as his preferred destination late last year.

He was traded to Punt Rd for pick 34 last year and the Tigers’ first round pick in 2023, while teammate Taranto was traded for picks 13 and 22 last year.

“I’m really looking forward to it, it’s one of those games I am super excited to be a part of,” he said. “It will be a big test too. Melbourne is a great team and it’s a great occasion.”

“We are embracing everything about it (Anzac Eve) and listening to the stories.”

Like the Tigers, the Demons are coming off a disappointing Gather Round experience, and Hopper expects Melbourne’s midfield to come out firing.

“They have got some guys who are playing great footy, and they have a fair few who can go through there as well,” he said.

“In a weird way, we are looking forward to it. It is a good opportunity for us. If we can win games like these, it’s the games where memories are made.”

Hopper managed only seven games last year in his final season with the Giants, due to a nagging knee complaint he struggled to shake off. He missed a game due to a knee knock earlier this year, but says he feels fit and raring to go … and he’s grateful to be back playing regularly again.

https://www.codesports.com.au/afl/afl-round-6-2023-jacob-hopper-says-the-tigers-will-relish-the-chance-to-correct-their-form-against-melbourne/news-story/cbb9ba551f421c2e9c1bde726d75a63e

Offline Hard Roar Tiger

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #312 on: April 23, 2023, 08:55:01 PM »
Reckon he’s been ahead of my expectations. Killed it vs Crows and was excellent vs Swans. Quiet vs Blues and was ok vs Bulldogs.

He’s a fraction ahead of Taranto at this point.
“I find it nearly impossible to make those judgments, but he is certainly up there with the really important ones, he is certainly up there with the Francis Bourkes and the Royce Harts and the Kevin Bartlett and the Kevin Sheedys, there is no doubt about that,” Balme said.

Offline the claw

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #313 on: April 25, 2023, 11:12:53 AM »
Don't think many would argue against the reasons we got them. To get big bodied ball winners to help with clearance and c/p issues.

No one can argue they help with that. Simply because what good inside mids we had are aged and in decline and there was no younger ones coming thru. Plus both are pretty good in those roles. We got both i suppose because and i know tiger people hate to hear it but we have failed to draft any good ones in fact have hardly acknowledged the need.

There are bigger issues at play here not the least is our  reluctance to even draft big bodied types like them or even play em for starters and when we do  we fail to play em in the right roles.
Hopper and Taranto mask over our real failure to find and develop junior players like em or when we do draft them  give em a proper go in their right roles.

Trading out of drafts is not ideal either in this just Taranto would have been good enough. Imo of course.

If we do not find a way back into this years first round it will make three out of the last 4 drafts we have not had a first round pick.
I thought one thing we did well until 2020 was stay in the first round even if we got the picks wrong, even when we did trades we managed to stay in the first round in most drafts. we at least gave ourselves a shot at the best available kids and we gave our recruiters a chance. i suppose thats a process.

The other thing is now trading out of the first round regularly to exacerbate the problem thru success a lot of our picks have been  late first rounders. Instead of trading out of the draft we should have been finding ways to trade up instead of trading away picks.



Offline TigerLand

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Re: Jacob Hopper officially a Tiger [merged]
« Reply #314 on: April 25, 2023, 11:25:12 AM »
I agree with Claw about the concern about being locked out of top end talent in multiple years however Gibcus year we did have a bumper draft.

I do however not subscribe to the obsession of first round picks being the key to success. Whilst our dynasty was built around our top end talent - First rounders in Dusty (3), Cotchin (2), Riewoldt (13) and high second rounders Rance (19), Edwards (26). This was complimented by traded players and free agency of top end players Prestia, Lynch, Caddy. However all clubs have this with equalisation and draft order regardless of trading in and out of draft years. The key always will be is ensuring your bottom 10 players are at worst really good B and C graders.

Carlton are perfect example have had 2 era where top 6-8 players are as good as any team in the comp but there bottom 6 are park footballers. Judd era of Feb Juss Gibbs Kreuz, Murphy and now with Cripps Walsh, Doch, McKay, Curnow, Cerra. But both lists have a bottom 6 that are very average.

Look at Cats, when will they fall off the cliff, they don't cause they refuse to have a weak bottom 6 players. There worst player Miers or Close still hurt scoreboard and put forward pressure on. There are no passengers. That's what I think is more important than worrying about getting top 5 picks or top ten picks onto the list. Swans are the same albeit with some academy rorting help.

Our dynasty was on the back of some elite rookie selecting and development and great leadership group. Not top 10 picks.
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