Joel Bowden our best player

[Hellenic Tiger]

Bowden was dropped in 04 b/c he was lazy uninspiring repetitive and gutless. The masses of fans converging on Frawley at the race at the Dome saw to that and guess what he took the bait and dropped him. Sure it was warranted and many have said that he is a changed footballer since his demotion 3 years ago.

Personally for me Joel going to the backline has not changed him as a footballer. Its taken him out of the midfield where you need to be tough and have a work ethic of strong fibre to succeed week in week out and cannot afford to be laxadazical. Furthermore in a defence like ours which tends to leak like a sieve anyway he can hide amongst the fact that we generally were getting beaten anyway and even if his man kicked 4 or 5 goals questions being raised anyway are with regards to our poor skills our turnovers and our endeavour at critical times when the game was up for grabs or lack of for most of the game anyway as Geelong at the dome last year. The one thing Joel does have is very good skills his field kicking is lovely 95-100% of the time and with that he tends to escape the scrutiny of the media with regards to our skills but he receives I would say as a direct run off handball or short kick the majority of his possessions and very few are hard ball gets.

His leadership also leaves alot to be desired. He tends to be the face or the voice of the players when we win or lose and fronts the media toeing the company line blah blah blah about what we want to hear and see and what not but in Richo's 250th last year his endeavour against Port was pathetic and that is being kind.He has shown similar traits of apathy at  crucial times in other instances but due to his media friendly persona he tends to be ignored when criticism comes our way.

For me he is a fraud. At best he is a passenger in our side. I still have not forgiven him for the suicidal run across our defensive 40 in round 22 1998 when we needed to win to make the finals. Options upfield and a second quarter come back well and truly on, he selfishly runs across the face of goal gets tackled by Neitz who goals and turns the game back in Melbs favour. Or in 2001 first quarter against Adelaide at the G 4 goals to zip up Bowden on his own 30 metres out short kick to him rather than a one grab mark he decides to try and juggle the ball whilst running towards goal thinking he will kick from closer in. Guess what holding the ball and a game we were in full control of changes on that piece of garbage and we lead narrowly at quarter time. For me these two passages of play sum him up: lazy egotistical selfish maligned superficial vague weak hypocritical fraudulent.


For me Richo has more spirit courage endeavour passion glory stardom than Bowden ever will and even though selfish and maligned can be attributed to Richo also for me it adds to the enigma that is Richo. After all Richo has won us more games than Bowden has throughout their careers.
Richo forever the flawed genius
Bowden forever flawed.
I'm with Richo.

[mightytiges]

Joel has been a good consistent player for us but hasn't become the superstar supporters were expecting as a youngster when he was labelled the next Jimmy Hird. Hard not to disappoint supporters with that title over your head after your first year or two. Joel never was the same player once he broke his collarbone twice. Played more "safe" afterwards. Lame efforts like the ones HT74 described has made him another love/hate Tiger amongst supporters. I remember a game against the Pies in 2003 where he went lazily one-handed for a mark in front of the Richmond members. A few were close to jumping the fence lol.

[torch]

No. 11 Joel Bowden ...

[Mr Magic]

Bowden forever flawed.

Extremely tough post. Safe to say I totally disagree with virtually every word of it.

Joel Bowden is a gun that every club in the competiton would take in a heartbeat.

He is the General of our defence and has more talent in his little finger than 90% of the players on out list.

There is no question about his leadership ability or his bravery IMO.
He has been asked to stand the likes of Jon Brown & Fevola despite being significantly undersized.
He not only matched them but beaten his opponent on several occassions and put his body regularly on the line for his team mates.

Expectations of him are huge and when he has the odd off game(rare in the past 3 seasons) 'supporters' like yourself are extremely quick to tear him to shreds and continually hark back to the dark days of Frawley.
It pees me off no end particularly when the guy has won dual Jack Dyer medals and AA recognition over the past few years.

He is most definately up there in one of our best 3 or 4 players and deserves more respect than the crap you have served up in your post.

Joel for captain in '08.

[mightytiges]

He has been asked to stand the likes of Jon Brown & Fevola despite being significantly undersized.
He not only matched them but beaten his opponent on several occassions and put his body regularly on the line for his team mates.

Joel does win far more of these battles than he loses but IMO from a team perspective he shouldn't be playing in these roles. He's naturally more of a forward or wingman. He's more effective when he can zone off and collect the ball in space. He's only playing a key defenders role because of shocking list management thanks to Spud not recruiting any young tall defenders. Joel's got to hold the fort while Thursty, McGuane and now Rance develop. 

[Mr Magic]

He has been asked to stand the likes of Jon Brown & Fevola despite being significantly undersized.
He not only matched them but beaten his opponent on several occassions and put his body regularly on the line for his team mates.

Joel does win far more of these battles than he loses but IMO from a team perspective he shouldn't be playing in these roles. He's naturally more of a forward or wingman. He's more effective when he can zone off and collect the ball in space. He's only playing a key defenders role because of shocking list management thanks to Spud not recruiting any young tall defenders. Joel's got to hold the fort while Thursty, McGuane and now Rance develop. 

No dispute MT. Actually I agree entirely.
It irked the heck out of me last season that the guy we recruited as a KPD(Polak) ended up playing Joel's role and Joel was yet again forced to forfeit his natural attacking game to mind the big guys.
Had me scratching my head constantly.

[Francois Jackson]

the only fraud in this team is our captain.
he is the most gutless captain we have had since we began as a football side.

bowden is a trier. plays his heart out but no where in the same league as richo does

[Mr Magic]

the only fraud in this team is our captain.
he is the most gutless captain we have had since we began as a football side.

I'm not a Sugar fan but to call him gutless is just plain wrong.
He played numerous games last season with a busted hand and on several occassions in '06 tagged the games best right out of the game.

Not good enough maybe.. but gutless?

Speaking of which I'd like to see you say it to his face Daniel.

[Stripes]

Johnson would not be my personal pick for a captain but at the stage when the choice needed to be made the pool was very shallow. B1 has not always been super supportive of the coaches, Richo had the reputation as erratic and Browny was injured - there wasn't much left. 

Johnson lacks the 'star' quality that many of the best captains have traditionally possessed but he is a leader who gives his all. Until some of our more capable players develop into leaders like it or lump it - Johnson is our default leader.

Stripes

[Francois Jackson]

i couldnt care less what any of u think but in my book he is gutless and at best a average player.
tagged the best out of the game. who cares, when he lost a few games due to his pathetic disposal of the ball and if we r really on the right track then dump him as captain. he is not a leader and will not win a game for us off his own boot like 15 other captains in the league would.

broken hand, finger i dont care if u cross the white line u should be able to play. look how archer played with his hand.

[bluey_21]

i couldnt care less what any of u think but in my book he is gutless and at best a average player.
tagged the best out of the game. who cares, when he lost a few games due to his pathetic disposal of the ball and if we r really on the right track then dump him as captain. he is not a leader and will not win a game for us off his own boot like 15 other captains in the league would.

broken hand, finger i dont care if u cross the white line u should be able to play. look how archer played with his hand.

yet he has more premiership medallions than the rest of the side combined, go figure

[Francois Jackson]

yeah big deal that wasnt at punt road buddy.

last year in a year where we needed someone to stand up he went missing. all im saying is i want this bloke to win one game off his boot for us. just one game.

when i see that i will be happy. right now when i see this guy get his hands on the ball i cringe and hope he passes it off. unlike bowden, knockers he may have but his disposal is second to none in this team.

[3121]

Joel bowden is our best player

...............and that would be one of the main reasons why we haven't progressed as a team.

Classifying a player as 'the best' needs to be someone who steps up and at least kick goals to win games, as per Nathan Brown prior to his horrific injury.

Kudos to Joel coming back several years ago after being demoted to Coburg and winning Jack's Medal.

[bluey_21]

yeah big deal that wasnt at punt road buddy.

last year in a year where we needed someone to stand up he went missing. all im saying is i want this bloke to win one game off his boot for us. just one game.

when i see that i will be happy. right now when i see this guy get his hands on the ball i cringe and hope he passes it off. unlike bowden, knockers he may have but his disposal is second to none in this team.

what about the collingwood game this year where he set up numerous plays though the mid with his creative handballing does that equal one game where he one the game for us  ???

[torch]

no ... Kane Johnson is our best player ... he is captain ! ...