Author Topic: MCG/Docklands stadia deals [merged]  (Read 6008 times)

Offline Infamy

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Re: MCG-AFL deal NOT done
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2009, 06:46:26 PM »
Probably due to our game on the Gold Coast plus a couple of home games at Telstra Dome (not by choice)

Offline mightytiges

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Re: MCG-AFL deal NOT done
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2009, 07:04:15 PM »
Ta Infamy that's probably the reason. Having said that I would've thought we still drag more people through the MCG gates than the Dees even with 2 less MCG home games (our 8 to their 10). We had last year 479k to our 11 home games to the Dees 338k. No way 140k can be made up from 2 Docklands games.
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Offline one-eyed

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$20m for Melbourne clubs in AFL action against Etihad Stadium (Australian)
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2009, 05:14:26 AM »
$20m for Melbourne clubs in AFL action against Etihad Stadium
Patrick Smith and Greg Denham | April 04, 2009 | The Australian

MELBOURNE AFL clubs will share a $20million bonanza and more that would secure their long-term future, if action before the Supreme Court against the city's second biggest venue, Etihad Stadium, is successful.

The court move, begun on March 11, seeks discovery of documents critical to rich revenue streams the AFL believes have been due to the league since the Docklands stadium went on line as a league venue in 2000.

Chief Justice Marilyn Warren reserved judgment, though all parties to the action expect a decision soon.

While the claim for discovery appears to revolve around the venue owners, Stadium Operations Ltd, changing the naming rights from Telstra to Etihad without seeking AFL permission, more critically, the AFL is also seeking discovery on two other issues that could reap the clubs a fortune and secure their future.

Club officials said the AFL case involves documents relating to ownership of pouring rights at the stadium.

Senior club officials have been told by the AFL the league negotiated the rights when the user agreement between the stadium and the league was drawn up in the late 1990s.

The club officials have been told the AFL has not received one cent from the pourage deal - that's the right to income from beer, soft drink and food sales at the ground. The league maintains the stadium managers have on-sold the rights to third parties.

The AFL discovery request also seeks documents that detail the negotiations and terms of the contract between tenant soccer club Melbourne Victory and the stadium.

According to the clubs briefed by the league's legal heavies, the user agreement stresses that no other code can be given a better deal than an AFL club. It has been, of course, a major concern, that the returns from the stadium for AFL clubs have been meagre to the point that they have threatened the future of the clubs.

One spokesman for the clubs told The Weekend Australian last night: "We know the AFL has been getting a poorer deal than Victory for a long time. The user agreement says that cannot happen."

The AFL also believes the matters must be addressed retrospectively, in which case clubs have been told the immediate windfall could be as much as $20m. The non-Victorian clubs have told the AFL Commission that any monies due from the stadium should be given to the Melbourne clubs alone. The revenue from pourage rights and reworked deals in line with Melbourne Victory's contract would ensure the local clubs a steady income to 2025 when the AFL takes over the stadium.

If Justice Warren's decision on discovery falls the AFL's way then the league is expected to take immediate legal action to recoup the millions it believes it is rightly owed under clauses in the user-agreement contract.

The clubs case is strengthened because they argue that in November last year, Docklands chief executive Ian Collins, in recognition of the revenue omissions, struck a deal at AFL House that would have delivered the Melbourne clubs $6m a year for an unspecified period of years.

The AFL considered the contract settled by Collins was blocked by Stadium Operation Ltd's Sydney office.

The AFL refuses to acknowledge the change in the venue name from Telstra Dome to Etihad Stadium because it believes legally it was entitled to be consulted. The Etihad sponsorship is in conflict with a significant AFL sponsor in Qantas.

While it appears the Abu Dhabi-based carrier Etihad and Qantas will form a loose partnership, the league contends the breach of the user agreement occurred when it was not consulted on the sponsorship change.

The AFL is also in negotiations with the MCG Trust which oversees the MCG. While the AFL argument with Etihad is strictly legal, the issue with the MCG is being fought on moral grounds.

The AFL contends it has delivered more than required in the deal with the MCG that runs until 2032. Football crowds at the MCG last year were 700,000 above what the league and the venue budgeted for. The AFL maintains it should get some compensation for driving the MCG economy.

The MCG Trust has agreed, in part, and offered an extra $90,000 a game to every Melbourne club that is scheduled at the ground as the home club. The AFL has knocked back the offer.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25287148-5012432,00.html

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Hopefully the AFL wins, it will be good for the clubs, by the way isnt the chief justice a Richmond supporter ? Richmond ruling the court rooms lol ... our abilities never cease to amaze ;D

Offline one-eyed

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Clubs hit stalemate in MCG talks (Australian)
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2009, 04:32:44 AM »
Clubs hit stalemate in MCG talks
Greg Denham and Patrick Smith | April 09, 2009
The Australian

THE impasse between the Melbourne stadiums and the AFL has intensified with the MCG Trust flatly rejecting a counter offer by the clubs for a better financial deal at the MCG.

After the clubs and the AFL rejected the Melbourne Cricket Club's offer of about $50million to help its Victorian tenant clubs over the next 10 years, the clubs, via the Victorian Government, last week sought a revised offer which has not been entertained by the MCG Trust.

Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon, acting as chief delegate on behalf of all 16 clubs, yesterday said he put a proposition to Victorian Minister for Sport James Merlino, who later told Smorgon the club's demand was unacceptable to the government-appointed MCG Trust.

"I spoke on behalf of the clubs and the AFL to the sports minister James Merlino and put to him a concept that we were prepared to entertain," Smorgon said.

"He came back four days later and said he'd spoken to the MCG and the issue that is not negotiable, is they want a 10-year extension. He said 'Absolutely non-negotiable, nothing to talk about' and things are at a stalemate."

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou yesterday said the league had no intention of extending its current contract with the MCG beyond its expiry in 2032.

"We're just not interested in the 10-year extension," Demetriou said.

Tenant clubs playing home games at the MCG were initially offered an additional $90,000 a match from the start of this year. As well the MCC was prepared to pay the AFL $1-per-person each year for exceeding the AFL's requirement to attract 2.1million spectators to the ground each season.

Last season the code attracted 2.8million people to the MCG, which would have equated to an additional payment to the AFL of $700,000, under the cricket club's proposal. Smorgon said the clubs' counter proposal was for $100,000 a match and a $2-for-one deal on the overall crowd number exceeding 2.1million.

"We also floated the idea that we would give them a lesser extension," Smorgon said. "They came back after four days and at a meeting at the MCG, they said 'If it's not for 10 years we've got absolutely nothing to talk about'."

The AFL last month slammed the cricket club for seeking a 10-year contract extension, saying it would continue to deliver greater benefits to the stadium rather than to the clubs.

The league said its financial forecast was that the MCC would generate $1.6billion in football income by the proposed contract extension, far in excess of the $5million a year it was offering clubs over the next decade.

As well as the MCG stalemate, the AFL is locked into a Supreme Court battle with Melbourne's other major venue Etihad Stadium, which involves seeking discovery of documents critical to rich revenue streams for the clubs.

As exclusively reported in The Weekend Australian, Victorian clubs could share a $20million bonanza from the stadium's owner retrospectively, and much higher future revenue streams from match returns if legal action is successful.

While the claim for discovery appears to revolve around the venue owners, Stadium Operations Ltd, changing the naming rights from Telstra Dome to Etihad Stadium without seeking AFL permission, more critically the AFL is also seeking discovery on two other issues that could reap the clubs a fortune and secure their future.

Club officials say the AFL want to see documents relating to ownership of pourage rights at the stadium. The competition believes the AFL negotiated the rights when the user agreement between the stadium and the league was drawn up in the late 1990s, but no monies have been paid to the league in 10 years.

The AFL discovery request also seeks documents that detail the negotiations and terms of the contract between tenant soccer club Melbourne Victory and the stadium.

According to the clubs briefed by the league's legal team, the user agreement stresses that no other code can be given a better deal than an AFL club.

Past and future revenue from pourage rights and reworked deals in line with Melbourne Victory's contract would ensure struggling tenant clubs a steady income to 2025 when the AFL takes ownership of the stadium.

If the court's decision favours the AFL, it is expected to take immediate legal action to recoup the millions it believes it is rightly owed under clauses in the user-agreement contract.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25311386-5012432,00.html

Offline tigersalive

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Re: MCG/Docklands stadia deals [merged]
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2009, 07:48:02 AM »
stuff it.   They own all the cards and that slight amount of increase is negligence if they're going to hold for another 10 years anyway before allowing clubs to be able to negotiate a real fair deal.

Ultimately, we really should be blaming whoever signed the bloody contract.  :banghead
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: MCG/Docklands stadia deals [merged]
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2009, 05:11:42 PM »
eff it.   They own all the cards and that slight amount of increase is negligence if they're going to hold for another 10 years anyway before allowing clubs to be able to negotiate a real fair deal.

Ultimately, we really should be blaming whoever signed the bloody contract.  :banghead
That'd be the AFL although our poor on-field record does us no favours.
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Offline one-eyed

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Clubs hit stalemate on Melbourne Cricket Ground deal (Herald-Sun)
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2009, 04:37:51 AM »
Clubs hit stalemate on Melbourne Cricket Ground deal
Rod Nicholson | April 12, 2009

      VICTORIA'S AFL clubs will meet this week to forge a new strategy after a stalemate in negotiations for a better financial deal from the MCG and State Government.

Western Bulldogs president David Smorgon, acting as chief delegate, said the clubs would meet the AFL "because negotiations haven't worked and we are a long way apart".

Smorgon said there was encouraging news during the week that Adelaide Oval may return as a major football venue - hinting Victorian clubs would consider shifting games from the MCG and Etihad Stadium as part of a long-term strategy to gain financial independence.

"Adelaide may be down the track a bit, but other interstate options are available," he said.

"Victorian clubs don't want to play at the worst and second worst grounds in the competition in terms of financial rewards.

"We rejected the offer from the MCG and State Government, and Victorian Minister for Sport James Merlino last week rejected a counter proposal, saying the 10-year extension of the current contract to 2042 was non-negotiable.

"So it's a complete stalemate. I don't think there is much more we can do around the negotiation table.

"Now we are going to meet the AFL to come up with the next course of action. We haven't given up by any means. We're just disappointed."

The clubs and the AFL rejected the MCC's offer of about $50 million to help its Victorian tenant clubs over the next 10 years.

AFL chief executive Andrew Demetriou has said the league has no intention of extending its current contract with the MCG beyond its expiry in 2032.

"We're just not interested in the 10-year extension," Demetriou said.

The MCC offered tenant clubs playing home games at the MCG an additional $90,000 a match from the start of this year.

As well, the MCC was prepared to pay the AFL $1 a person each year for exceeding the AFL's requirement to attract 2.1 million spectators to the ground each season.

Last season the code attracted 2.8 million people to the MCG, which would have equated to an additional payment to the AFL of $700,000.

Smorgon said the clubs' counter proposal was for $100,000 a match and $2 a person deal on the overall crowd number exceeding 2.1 million.

"We also floated the idea that we would give them a lesser extension," Smorgon said.

"They came back after four days and, at a meeting at the MCG, they said, 'If it's not for 10 years we've got absolutely nothing to talk about'."

The AFL last month slammed the cricket club for seeking a 10-year contract extension, saying it would continue to deliver greater benefits to the stadium rather than to the clubs.

The AFL said its financial forecast was that the MCC would generate $1.6 billion in football income by the proposed contract extension, far in excess of the $5 million a year it was offering clubs over the next decade.

MCC secretary Stephen Gough said negotiations were at a stalemate.

"They don't like our offer and we don't like their offer," Gough said.

"People must bear in mind that the MCC is the one who has the debt ($320 million for grandstand developments) and we must make the payments.

"We have offered some significant benefits outside the current contract that we can deal with, but at significant cost to us.

"We can do no more."

Gough said the MCC would meet again to discuss the impasse, but said the offer would not remain on the table indefinitely.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25322121-19742,00.html

Offline one-eyed

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AFL's ground rationalisation costs clubs (Age)
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2009, 02:22:23 AM »
AFL's ground rationalisation costs clubs
Jake Niall | April 16, 2009

A GENERATION of kids never had the privilege of standing near the "animal enclosure" at Moorabbin. They haven't jostled for a spot under the windsock at Windy Hill, haven't experienced the unique hospitality, and saliva, that Victoria Park extended to visitors from other clubs.

If they're lucky, they might have caught a game at the most pristine of the old fortresses, Princes Park, before it was closed as an AFL venue.

Some would say good riddance to suburban grounds, which were antiquated hovels in comparison with the comfortable, shiny Docklands, the refurbished MCG and the modern interstate venues. These local grounds, symbols of the old Victorian order, were sacrificed on the altar of progress and the national competition.

We were told that these grounds had to go, for the sake of the game and the economic future of the clubs, which were better off closing the run-down family home and renting either at the MCG or what is now known as Etihad Stadium.

Ground rationalisation, the '80s agenda pushed by the current Australian Competition and Consumer Commission chairman Graeme Samuel, was an example of the AFL's willingness to make the tough business decisions in the game's long-term interest.

Those who had misgivings about jettisoning all the old grounds were merely foolish romantics who didn't understand the AFL's hard-headed wisdom.

These sentimental Luddites were blind to the dollars and sense of ground rationalisation. Preserving club histories and identities was just narrow parochialism.

Funny how ideologies get mugged by reality and history bends in an unexpected direction.

As the AFL struggles to obtain a fair deal for its clubs at the MCG and Docklands, it's become apparent that these old grounds were over-rationalised. How much better off would the clubs be financially if the AFL had kept at least one of its suburban grounds?

The AFL has huffed and puffed about shifting games interstate, tried to get the State Government to heavy the MCG Trust, and yet negotiations remain mired in Middle Eastern mode. The MCG has a contract and doesn't need to budge. What the AFL doesn't have — and even delusional romantics understand this — is leverage.

There is no third ground, because, in its sociopathic drive to remove all vestiges of suburbanism from an expanding competition, past AFL administrations forced the closing of the smaller grounds. A policy that made a certain amount of economic sense, was over-cooked and the clubs have been badly burnt.

Consider the negotiating tactics available to Andrew Demetriou and co, who, to be fair, inherited the two-stadium agenda. "If you don't give the clubs a better deal, we'll …" Build another stadium? Move games to Geelong or Canberra? It's not easy to complete that sentence with a feasible threat. The MCG is controlled by a trust, Etihad is privately owned and its shareholders want the best possible return.

The logical ground to have remained open for business was Princes Park, which, until recent renovations, could still accommodate 35,000 in relative comfort. It would have required relatively few dollars to upgrade to AFL standard — Carlton went broke building the ground, in the belief that it would find a niche as Melbourne's third (or more optimistically, second) stadium once Waverley was turned into real estate.

Clubs have, belatedly, woken to the fact that bums on seats doesn't necessarily translate into dollars. Geelong makes about as much from a typical home game as Richmond earned from a sold-out MCG in round one. Had the AFL sufficient foresight to keep a 25,000-35,000 boutique ground, the low-drawing games against Freo, West Coast, Port et al — some of which are sold off to other states — would earn a pretty penny.

The AFL, sadly, failed to heed its own dysfunctional history with the MCG. The league created Waverley, in part because it was sick of being ripped off and dictated to by the Melbourne Cricket Club.

How did the AFL's decision makers, otherwise pretty astute, fail to read the play? Well, the obvious point is that they envisaged fewer Victorian clubs — at least two and maybe three teams were expected to merge or relocate. But, instead, we've seen the birth of new clubs, with the 17th and 18th babies on the way. The additional games won't draw many fans in Melbourne. Ideally, they'd be hosted by a low-cost, smallish capacity ground.

They call it a boutique stadium. I call it a suburban ground.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/no-way-home/2009/04/15/1239474935832.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Offline one-eyed

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Football department spending & Stadia returns
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2009, 10:14:07 AM »
Does anyone know where you can find the AFL figures on football department spending?

I know they mentioned us on the radio in the bottom 5 just ahead of Melbourne?, Essendon  :o, Port and North but I can't find the actual figures published anywhere. The Swans were the biggest spenders along with the Pies out of interest. Geelong and Hawthorn were 5th/6th.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2009, 03:46:46 PM by one-eyed »

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Football department spending
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2009, 10:19:42 AM »
Does anyone know where you can find the AFL figures on football department spending?

I know they mentioned us on the radio in the bottom 5 just ahead of Melbourne?, Essendon  :o, Port and North but I can't find the actual figures published anywhere. The Swans were the biggest spenders along with the Pies out of interest. Geelong and Hawthorn were 5th/6th.

its no coincidence that the 4 clubs you mentioned in Pies, Hawks, Cats and Swans have all been regular finals particpants whilst we languish as per usual near the bottom.

we dont put enough money into this department and lets hope it all changes in 09 with our new coach who should open the cheque book and get Balmy back to Punt Road.

Our new footy department will include Sheeds, Bartlett, balmy and coach Malthouse

now thats a magic line up if ever ive seen one
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Offline gtig

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Re: Football department spending
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2009, 10:23:12 AM »
have a look at p3 of the age sport section today. it has Richmond about 5th last at a bit under $13.5m.
also has a chart with us taking lowest stadium return of any team in the league, somewhere around $12.5 per attendee (all figures for 2008).
i guess you could get the afl annual report from ASIC.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Football department spending
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2009, 10:24:55 AM »
have a look at p3 of the age sport section today. it has Richmond about 5th last at a bit under $13.5m.
also has a chart with us taking lowest stadium return of any team in the league, somewhere around $12.5 per attendee (all figures for 2008).
i guess you could get the afl annual report from ASIC.
Cheers gtig. I'll check it out  :cheers

Offline Infamy

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Re: Football department spending
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2009, 11:20:06 AM »
also has a chart with us taking lowest stadium return of any team in the league, somewhere around $12.5 per attendee (all figures for 2008).
That doesn't surprise me at all considering we are regularly the 3rd biggest drawing side in the competition. Divide a crap total by more attendees and our per person number will be very low.

Offline gtig

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Re: Football department spending
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2009, 11:53:00 AM »
dogs, collingwood and hawks are all around the $22 per person mark.

i think from memory the rfc annual report mentioned footy department spending would be up by about $1m extra? that would put us around the middle, where the saints are.

the idea that throwing mountains of money out the door is going to fix our problems or turn us into permanent finalists worked wonders in the mid 80s.   :lol  :banghead