Cogs thread [merged]

[Tigermonk]

Quentin.

Hey OX is this little critter still alive, he ended up a grumpy bugger 
how old would he be

[Smokey]

And can you please list which broken players we kept that we could have got rid of?
l find that part in red very amusing l'm sure many others will also
you must be very young or deluded Tiger supporter

Aaahh, the old "I've got 30+ years experience" chestnut.  You must be struggling because last time you trotted that out you had nothing of value left to say.

  but Danny Meyer is one to start with, the rest you can do research on yourself l cant be bothered with you anymore, l throw in Dragacevic as another just to help you
 

Why would we get rid of Danny Meyer?
He is still contracted and worth nothing as a trade.  May as well keep him and see if he can overcome his injuries surely?

Why would we have got rid of Marc Dragacevic before his injury?
He was very promising before it and worth nothing after so again untradeable.  He was delisted when his contract ran out so where did the club have a chance to get rid of him prior to that?

Why would we have got rid of Gaspar before his injury?  He was the incumbent All-Australian CHB and on a 5 year contract when he did his knee and nowhere near the same footballer when he came back - untradeable.  We got rid of him when his contract was due to run out so where did the club have a chance to get rid of him prior to that?

Why would we have got rid of Hall before his injury?  He was the only tall utility we had in our squad and his injuries only took hold within the term of his last contract to the point where he was unable to take the field - untradeable.  We got rid of him when his contract ran out so where did the club have a chance to get rid of him prior to that.

But.......we did very, very well with David Rodan didn't we?  Getting rid of him before we knew unequivocally if he would come back from his knee has been an astute piece of work hasn't it.

Typical of you TM, make a statement full of bluster and no substance and then have nothing to back it up.  The only one we had an opportunity to offload for anything post-injury was Rodan and it looks like we stuffed that one.  There is the main difference between your point of view and mine - I WILL do some research to see if my opinion stacks up, you won't/don't/can't whatever.

[Francois Jackson]

2008 & 9? If so the club will lose a lot of money out of this one. If he stays he is costing us more than if he goes dues to medical costs but if he stays he may come good...it is a cruel game isn't it. Even if he recovers, which is becoming more and more unlikely as time progresses, he may never get the fitness or speed to return.

I think Cogs will unfortunately become just another potential star that never kicked on after one or two glorious seasons.

Sad really 

Stripes

thats terrible news.
i know it happens to other clubs as well but it seems we always draw the short straw.

freezer back in the day and now cogs. 2 potential 300 game players now most likely gone

[Smokey]

2008 & 9? If so the club will lose a lot of money out of this one. If he stays he is costing us more than if he goes dues to medical costs but if he stays he may come good...it is a cruel game isn't it. Even if he recovers, which is becoming more and more unlikely as time progresses, he may never get the fitness or speed to return.

I think Cogs will unfortunately become just another potential star that never kicked on after one or two glorious seasons.

Sad really 

Stripes

thats terrible news.
i know it happens to other clubs as well but it seems we always draw the short straw.

freezer back in the day and now cogs. 2 potential 300 game players now most likely gone

What you say is mostly right and it is very unfortunate for the player, the club and football in general when it happens to genuine stars.  I don't know that we have had any more misfortune than other clubs - 2 of these players in 15 odd years doesn't seem a lot but I think we notice it much more because we have been starved of success with not many of these types in the club, so when it does happen it stands out.  A damn shame about Freezer and looking more likely a damn shame about Cogs.

[Ox]

Quentin.

Hey OX is this little critter still alive, he ended up a grumpy bugger 
how old would he be

He's 33 and here's his webbie -lol

http://www.q.kenihan.net/

Yeh,i remember him being a grumpy little,arrogant turd a few years back.
LMAO@ That.

The picture is apparently from a movie he was in - Great Aussie Pic,imo.

[Tigermonk]

And can you please list which broken players we kept that we could have got rid of?
l find that part in red very amusing l'm sure many others will also
you must be very young or deluded Tiger supporter

Aaahh, the old "I've got 30+ years experience" chestnut.  You must be struggling because last time you trotted that out you had nothing of value left to say.

  but Danny Meyer is one to start with, the rest you can do research on yourself l cant be bothered with you anymore, l throw in Dragacevic as another just to help you
 

Why would we get rid of Danny Meyer?
He is still contracted and worth nothing as a trade.  May as well keep him and see if he can overcome his injuries surely?

Why would we have got rid of Marc Dragacevic before his injury?
He was very promising before it and worth nothing after so again untradeable.  He was delisted when his contract ran out so where did the club have a chance to get rid of him prior to that?

Why would we have got rid of Gaspar before his injury?  He was the incumbent All-Australian CHB and on a 5 year contract when he did his knee and nowhere near the same footballer when he came back - untradeable.  We got rid of him when his contract was due to run out so where did the club have a chance to get rid of him prior to that?

Why would we have got rid of Hall before his injury?  He was the only tall utility we had in our squad and his injuries only took hold within the term of his last contract to the point where he was unable to take the field - untradeable.  We got rid of him when his contract ran out so where did the club have a chance to get rid of him prior to that.

But.......we did very, very well with David Rodan didn't we?  Getting rid of him before we knew unequivocally if he would come back from his knee has been an astute piece of work hasn't it.

Typical of you TM, make a statement full of bluster and no substance and then have nothing to back it up.  The only one we had an opportunity to offload for anything post-injury was Rodan and it looks like we stuffed that one.  There is the main difference between your point of view and mine - I WILL do some research to see if my opinion stacks up, you won't/don't/can't whatever.

you are a deluded supporter & know pooh
oh l made a statement about Coughlan you said his superfit   l said his career is finished & looks like l hold the cards 
his broken again  how much time is he going to be off this time. he aint given the club any playing time since R12 2006,  his head is on the chopping block & he aint going too well for someone superfit with broken body
Richmond is a buisness & his dead money & costing a valuable spot, holding up someones career, you cannot keep someone on a list who dont play football no matter who they are & thats why Richmond lose money for making bad decision
l'm sorry your love child is finished, but hey you can always attach yourself to someone elses pretty boy 

[Tigermonk]

Quentin.

Hey OX is this little critter still alive, he ended up a grumpy bugger 
how old would he be

He's 33 and here's his webbie -lol

Yeh,i remember him being a grumpy little,arrogant turd a few years back.
LMAO@ That.

The picture is apparently from a movie he was in - Great Aussie Pic,imo.

  thought he was older than that, like how you brought him up  reminds me of some of our ex players & current always snapping parts 

[Smokey]

you are a deluded supporter & know pooh
oh l made a statement about Coughlan you said his superfit  

You really do have a serious disconnect between the eyes and the brain don't you.  For the umpteenth time - I never, ever, ever, ever, ever stated he was superfit.  That was another poster - helps when you actually take in what you read.  More TM bluster and crapola.

l said his career is finished & looks like l hold the cards 

Might I suggest that ain't all you're holding.

his broken again  how much time is he going to be off this time. he aint given the club any playing time since R12 2006,  his head is on the chopping block & he aint going too well for someone superfit with broken body
Richmond is a buisness & his dead money & costing a valuable spot, holding up someones career, you cannot keep someone on a list who dont play football no matter who they are & thats why Richmond lose money for making bad decision

He is not holding anyone up or costing the club any extra money.  If his injury is going to be for a long time then they can (might do, might not, no big deal either way) promote a rookie but I don't see a rookie walking into a side that Bowden, Pettifer, Tivendale and Polo can't crack.  A promoted rookie costs more money so if we are running a business here then surely you would need a ROI from the rookie?  Please name the rookie you feel is ready to step up for a senior game.  The club will also have a contracted duty of care to look after Coughlan's medical bills regardless of whether he is sacked tomorrow or not, so no difference in cost there.

So........ doing it your way - sacking him now - gives us no win and a potential loss, while doing it the other way - giving him the remaining time on his contract (or at least until the end of the season) to see what happens - gives us a potential win or a potential loss.  Gee, your way sounds smart.

l'm sorry your love child is finished, but hey you can always attach yourself to someone elses pretty boy 

I thought Johnson was my love child?  Thats what I was accused of when I pointed out early in the year that it was too early to make a call on whether he was gone and that it was possible there were mitigating circumstances surrounding last year's form.  All I have done with Coughlan is the same - pointed out that in my opinion it is too early to make a call on him and that the club will most likely see it that way too.

Keep dealing.

[one-eyed]

Mark Coughlan out with hamstring injury
Bruce Matthews | May 15, 2008 12:00am

A THIRD consecutive season is on the brink for haunted Richmond midfielder Mark Coughlan after a training mishap yesterday.

Coughlan, 26, fighting back after two knee reconstructions, tore a hamstring near the end of a solid match-practice workout at Punt Rd.

The 2003 best-and-fairest winner, who missed the 2006 and 2007 seasons because of knee operations, was planning to step up his comeback with VFL affiliate Coburg against Geelong in the early game at the MCG on Saturday.

A hamstring injury after a NAB Cup game delayed his return and he finally eased back by playing two quarters for Coburg last weekend.

Coughlan had survived several heavy tackles during the simulated match workout yesterday and he ran at full pace.

When the players took a short drinks break, even some of the Tigers' assistant coaches didn't notice Coughlan walk off with forward Nathan Brown, who is still feeling discomfort from a recent stomach upset.

A medical scan today will reveal the damage to Coughlan's hamstring, but the club expects him to "miss several weeks" before he can start the long haul back again.

Leading sports medico Dr Peter Larkins last night said the pattern would be of "great concern" if this is a recurring hamstring on the same leg.

"Traditionally, they keep causing trouble and it's more of a concern for the rehab program because you need to spend more time out each time it happens," he said

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23701132-19742,00.html

[Tigermonk]

you are a deluded supporter & know pooh
oh l made a statement about Coughlan you said his superfit  

You really do have a serious disconnect between the eyes and the brain don't you.  For the umpteenth time - I never, ever, ever, ever, ever stated he was superfit.  That was another poster - helps when you actually take in what you read.  More TM bluster and crapola.

l said his career is finished & looks like l hold the cards 

Might I suggest that ain't all you're holding.

his broken again  how much time is he going to be off this time. he aint given the club any playing time since R12 2006,  his head is on the chopping block & he aint going too well for someone superfit with broken body
Richmond is a buisness & his dead money & costing a valuable spot, holding up someones career, you cannot keep someone on a list who dont play football no matter who they are & thats why Richmond lose money for making bad decision

He is not holding anyone up or costing the club any extra money.  If his injury is going to be for a long time then they can (might do, might not, no big deal either way) promote a rookie but I don't see a rookie walking into a side that Bowden, Pettifer, Tivendale and Polo can't crack.  A promoted rookie costs more money so if we are running a business here then surely you would need a ROI from the rookie?  Please name the rookie you feel is ready to step up for a senior game.  The club will also have a contracted duty of care to look after Coughlan's medical bills regardless of whether he is sacked tomorrow or not, so no difference in cost there.

So........ doing it your way - sacking him now - gives us no win and a potential loss, while doing it the other way - giving him the remaining time on his contract (or at least until the end of the season) to see what happens - gives us a potential win or a potential loss.  Gee, your way sounds smart.

l'm sorry your love child is finished, but hey you can always attach yourself to someone elses pretty boy 

I thought Johnson was my love child?  Thats what I was accused of when I pointed out early in the year that it was too early to make a call on whether he was gone and that it was possible there were mitigating circumstances surrounding last year's form.  All I have done with Coughlan is the same - pointed out that in my opinion it is too early to make a call on him and that the club will most likely see it that way too.

Keep dealing.

your right you never said he was superfit it was Bentleigh who said it
you said his not finished so l stuck the superfit in cause it fits,  cause he aint got started again since Round 12 2006 & missed most of 2004 as well.
you say his not holding anyone up thats just crap his taking a spot on a list he should not be on himself IMO
his contract was renewed when he was broken HELLO am l correct  buisness choices,    it was another costly mistake Richmond has acheived again & since his contract was renewed he has not played a single game & continues to rape the medical expenses of the club when he should be down at Centrelink getting a disability pension & a healthcare card  cause his AFL career is finished he offers nothing so a rookie you say none of them could get a game well you dont hold Foley or Kingy highly do you cause they were both rookies once.
Every chance a rookie could turn it on like Tivendale was also a rookie, just like Peverill for Essendon & many more thats why they have rookies to replace injured players like Coughlan  l'm sure his used to it being replaced before
But not to forget Cameron Howat is also a rookie & was playing seniors this year till suspended so you overlooked him as well  Tristan Cartledge would easy get a game if call upon to Ruck,  he does a fine job & l think his also played a game once as has Collard who many think can break into the side this year so l leave it at that

as l said before l wished Coughlan all the best & have hoped just like every other supporter that he get back playing but l have seen players like this before at Richmond & other clubs & sometimes hard decisions have to be called & most times its in the best interest of the players health & future life in general

He may return home & become a star for the WAFL just like Dragacevic did in the SANFL, but just because they do, dont mean they would have handled the rigors of AFL football & dominated like they once did

& just to finish off players are contracted to play football & reap huge reward reminds us all of Ottens  How is our old friend Otto going  ??? is he playing  you think Geelong are getting thier money worth  1 year football & a premiership medal the rest injury that worth something l bet

we got many Coughlan type players now,  l cant see him ever getting back in & no-one will want to trade anything worthy for him cause he aint played for so long it be like trying a new recruit all over to see if he can cope with todays faster game

This injury going to take longer than the last to recover & then by the time he plays VFL 2nds & VFL 1st the year will be drawn closed he be thinking of presaeson training again

[Smokey]

you say his not holding anyone up thats just crap his taking a spot on a list he should not be on himself IMO
his contract was renewed when he was broken HELLO am l correct  buisness choices,    it was another costly mistake Richmond has acheived again & since his contract was renewed he has not played a single game & continues to rape the medical expenses of the club when he should be down at Centrelink getting a disability pension & a healthcare card  cause his AFL career is finished he offers nothing

But only a mistake in hindsight.  I believe (and I am willing to stand corrected here) his contract was renewed before it became known his 1st operation wasn't successful so at the time, given all the facts, I believe the club did the right thing.  He was a Jack Dyer medal winner, young, midfielder, 1 knee reco, and coming back from a knee reco the club would have been able to re-sign him at a reduced premium to what it would have to pay if he came back 100%.  I look at that decision as being calculated and smart.  Sure, history says his knee didn't take and he is now getting more unlikely to ever play again but with the facts in hand at the time the club did the right thing.

so a rookie you say none of them could get a game well you dont hold Foley or Kingy highly do you cause they were both rookies once.
Every chance a rookie could turn it on like Tivendale was also a rookie, just like Peverill for Essendon & many more thats why they have rookies to replace injured players like Coughlan  l'm sure his used to it being replaced before
But not to forget Cameron Howat is also a rookie & was playing seniors this year till suspended so you overlooked him as well  Tristan Cartledge would easy get a game if call upon to Ruck,  he does a fine job & l think his also played a game once as has Collard who many think can break into the side this year so l leave it at that

But answer my question - which rookie do we have that is playing anywhere near the sort of football that King, Foley, Tivendale or Peverill were playing to demand a call up to the seniors?  And especially to replace a midfielder?  Who would they replace?  Every rookie still plays every week with Coburg (1's or 2's) and has the chance to be noticed but apart from Cartledge none are even close (including Howat).  And Cartledge is only going to get promoted if a ruckman goes down - thats why he is on the rookie list - as insurance until Graham or Putt come on.  So Coughlan isn't keeping a rookie out.

as l said before l wished Coughlan all the best & have hoped just like every other supporter that he get back playing but l have seen players like this before at Richmond & other clubs & sometimes hard decisions have to be called & most times its in the best interest of the players health & future life in general

He may return home & become a star for the WAFL just like Dragacevic did in the SANFL, but just because they do, dont mean they would have handled the rigors of AFL football & dominated like they once did

we got many Coughlan type players now,  l cant see him ever getting back in & no-one will want to trade anything worthy for him cause he aint played for so long it be like trying a new recruit all over to see if he can cope with todays faster game

This injury going to take longer than the last to recover & then by the time he plays VFL 2nds & VFL 1st the year will be drawn closed he be thinking of presaeson training again

[/quote]
Finally a balanced comment.  I agree, Coughlan is looking increasingly likely to have played his last senior game and on-one wishes him anything but the best in wherever his football future lies but it's not valid to be down on the club for making the decision to extend his contract when the facts were he was a young medal-winning midfielder coming off 1 knee reco.  And once his contract was extended, the club then had no choice (still doesn't) than to give him every possible chance to show if he will recover before making a decision to delist.  He isn't taking a spot in the list (that can be filled before the end of the season), he isn't costing any more money, and the club made a decision that I'll bet every other club in the same position would have made at the time.  We don't have a bad history of re-signing injured players so to accuse them of that is just not fair.

& just to finish off players are contracted to play football & reap huge reward reminds us all of Ottens  How is our old friend Otto going  ??? is he playing  you think Geelong are getting thier money worth  1 year football & a premiership medal the rest injury that worth something l bet

Yep, proves the point doesn't it.  No club knows whats around the corner and can only make considered decisions given what is known at the time.  We are no worse or better than any other club in that regard.

[Tigermonk]

you say his not holding anyone up thats just crap his taking a spot on a list he should not be on himself IMO
his contract was renewed when he was broken HELLO am l correct  buisness choices,    it was another costly mistake Richmond has acheived again & since his contract was renewed he has not played a single game & continues to rape the medical expenses of the club when he should be down at Centrelink getting a disability pension & a healthcare card  cause his AFL career is finished he offers nothing

But only a mistake in hindsight.  I believe (and I am willing to stand corrected here) his contract was renewed before it became known his 1st operation wasn't successful so at the time, given all the facts, I believe the club did the right thing.  He was a Jack Dyer medal winner, young, midfielder, 1 knee reco, and coming back from a knee reco the club would have been able to re-sign him at a reduced premium to what it would have to pay if he came back 100%.  I look at that decision as being calculated and smart.  Sure, history says his knee didn't take and he is now getting more unlikely to ever play again but with the facts in hand at the time the club did the right thing.

when did Coughlan sign his last contract
l'm sure it was signed after his second operation & was late 2007 maybe before preseason

MT or WP your the know all of Tigerland  when was Quinten Coughlans contract last signed

am l correct in saying we delisted Dragacevic because of always injured to resigning him & then delist him again because he couldnt establish himself in the side but was great at VFL level

l fear we are going down that path again & someone must take the blame if we had a choice to not renew his contract
yes he won the JD in 2003,  but 2004 was lost & 2005 was good & from R12 2006 his been non player
thats alot of football missed since 2003 & his only ever played 83 games total since his debut

dont take any of this personal,  its a decussion about the football club & its players
l always own up if l'm wrong but as l said its nothing personal against debaters or Coughlan himself its about RFC & where there going
you cant acheive success is your stock are not producing
if he was a cow he be shot by now & on someones footy BBQ just joking

Remember David Teague he was a Carlton B&F winner & where is he now
everyone said he be a champion too  but l know his coaching out there in the wilderness

[Smokey]

when did Coughlan sign his last contract
l'm sure it was signed after his second operation & was late 2007 maybe before preseason

MT or WP your the know all of Tigerland  when was Quinten Coughlans contract last signed

You could be right as I said - happy to stand corrected - and if so then my point is less valid.  Re-signing him after the 2nd op would have been more of a gamble and less of a balanced decision.

am l correct in saying we delisted Dragacevic because of always injured to resigning him & then delist him again because he couldnt establish himself in the side but was great at VFL level

We delisted him after his 2 knee reco's and then rookie listed him to see if he would come good. Not much risk $$'s-wise for a potential return and he didn't take up a true list spot so I think the club took a calculated, minimal cost, risk ie did the best it could there.

l fear we are going down that path again & someone must take the blame if we had a choice to not renew his contract
yes he won the JD in 2003,  but 2004 was lost & 2005 was good & from R12 2006 his been non player
thats alot of football missed since 2003 & his only ever played 83 games total since his debut

I think the circumstances are different (rookie listing a risky proposition is a lot better than being on the full list) and if Coughlan's resigning was after his 2nd op then the club is much more exposed to, or guilty of, making an incorrect decision than if he was re-signed after the 1st op.

dont take any of this personal,  its a decussion about the football club & its players
l always own up if l'm wrong but as l said its nothing personal against debaters or Coughlan himself its about RFC & where there going
you cant acheive success is your stock are not producing

I agree.  Where we seem to disagree is the extent to which the club is to blame and how much they have been guilty of making these mistakes in the past.  I don't think the club has a bad history with these decisions and have generally made good ones given the facts available at the time.  And given Coughlan is currently on our list, there is absolutely no benefit in getting rid of him until we know with 100% surety that he is a lame duck.

[torch]

if he is contracted to the end of 2009.

i guess keep him to see if he comes good.

i do see other people's views on trading or delisting him.

do we actually know how long this hamstring injury will set him back for?

[Tigermonk]

here we go