Author Topic: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!  (Read 9434 times)

Offline Fishfinger

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #60 on: July 02, 2008, 10:36:20 PM »

We didn't have a single blowout in any quarter when Bowden was out of the side NOT ONE!!! Yet as soon as he comes back againt Geelong we get creamed in the 3rd 7 goals to 1, against Essendon our 3rd quarter also was rubbish 6 goals to 2, against Sydney, smashed all day, against Adelaide our 2nd half was crap 15 goals to 5, againt Melbourne 3rd quarter was 5 goals to 2, 4th quarter against port 5 goals to 1.

EVERY SINGLE game with Bowden in the side we have lapse and played poor football, without him our worst quarter was 7 goals to 4 against the Bulldogs in the last quarter, the 3 goal difference only coming in the last 3 minutes. Other than that it was no more than 1-2 goals each way.
I give up.  :o  :gotigers

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Offline Infamy

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #61 on: July 02, 2008, 10:45:02 PM »
Good, you've brought nothing to the argument other than the fact you disagree

I consider it a forfeit on your behalf

Offline tiga

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #62 on: July 02, 2008, 11:32:12 PM »
So what you're saying Infamy and please correct me if I'm wrong its Joel's faffing about in the backline and his tendancy towards the flamboyant is whats killing us as we try to drive out of the backline? The commentators love it. A Jink here, a fake there and then eventually a kick. I agree, Joel very often over engineers our play out of the backline but is there a purpose to it?? Is he waiting for players to push forward before he delivers? These are things you don't see on TV and as I'm interstate, for me, the TV doesn't tell the whole story positive or negative.

IMO Joel is a footballer who has never reached his full potential. His reflexes and agility are probably some of the best in the club but his lapses in concentration, even laziness at times has prevented him from reaching his full potential. Also that head ducking incident a few years ago didn't win him any fans either.

Honestly though, I don't think he's playing badly enough to be dropped. In a way he has been the go to guy for a lot of our backline movement and I think the reason for this is that the players around him especially the young guys actually have faith in him to do the right thing with the footy and generally he does when he eventually disposes. I do agree that he can be a little loose in defence at times but I can't see this as a reason for sending him to Coburg especially now that Polly is out indefinitely.

I don't mean to be the voice of reason in this debate but I can see merit in both points of view.
 

Tigermonk

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2008, 09:24:14 AM »
Imfamy

the team has dropped off because simply because we are gettting smashed in the midfield with Foley & Tambling having quite games, Simmonds playing with injury not winning the Ruck contest giving us first options & missing key backmen,  Browny not kicking goals he normaly would thrive on, Richo giving 50% & others dropping off but you consistantly blame Joel for being in the side as the problem.
Take your dark glasses off at the game, Joel is doing everything asked of him & his doing it well.
His picking up votes the last few weeks for his good efforts but your bagging him out
& Melbourne aint as bad as many think & beat a good Brisbane side
Why aint Foley & Tambling getting them votes Joel is picking up if his so bad as you say he is ??? why aint you bagging them for thier quite games or the 7 points that should have been goals from Browny
You want Bowden gone cause he holds the game up but its the players not running hard enough into space to play the fast flowing game you wish  like other clubs,  we dont run in waves enough like the Hawks & Dogs sides do & that is why we get covered too easy its because we are not fit enough or smart enough to play that type of football.
Richmonds main problem is the forward line leads & there is no wave of players behind to pick up the loose ball when its contested by the leading forward, giving the backmen as easy release to thier midfield which catches players out of position, you really need to have a whole overloook of where the team is going wrong not just 1 player in Bowden, Joel makes his space by his cleverness & players always go to him because of his skills & his good foot skills for hitting up targets. What really needs to happen is the whole team needs to lift & Joel will not stand out as much or have the time to hold the play up if everyone is running hard & breaking tags

Offline mjs

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2008, 11:37:16 AM »
Good, you've brought nothing to the argument other than the fact you disagree

I consider it a forfeit on your behalf

Infamy - the only surprise is that he stuck it out for so long.

Are you familiar with the term "Data Miner" - it refers to people who seek cause and effect by correlating  non related activities to arrive at pre-conceived and false conclusions. You blaming Joel for a myriad of score changes in a myriad of games is an example of it.

Joel played well last week. He is no more likely to be dropped than I am to be selected.


Ramps

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2008, 12:18:57 PM »
We can save the season by losing every single game between now and the end of the season, leaving other clubs around to win games against us and against each order putting us in the best possible position to secure the best player possible in the draft.


Offline Infamy

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2008, 12:25:19 PM »
Problem is we WERE running in waves to support team mates when Joel was out of the side. It was our intensity that made such a remarkable change to how competitive we were. Joel comes back in and it goes.
I'm not just cherry picking stats and saying that they're all because of the way Joel plays, I'm just trying to give examples to support my argument.

Anyone who thinks we weren't harder at the ball and running harder to support teammates while Joel was out of the side is stuffing blind.

Offline tiga

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2008, 12:33:18 PM »
Ohhh Ramps change the record!  :banghead I'm not going to sit through watching our team lose for the rest of the season. I want to see wins. Its been proven in the past that high draft picks are still a gamble and plenty of stars have been taken between picks 5-10. The priority pick is already gone so who cares. I want to see us win no matter who we play. I want to read the papers and see the replays. I don't want another season like last year. Have a think about team morale. Have a think about how winning will have an effect on our younger players performance and spirit! We are a club that needs to set an example for our young players.

I'd hate to have you in the rooms for a half time talk. "Okay boys......lets go out there and loose again!!! Remember, a high pick may or may not bring us another potential star that may or may not reach his full potential in the next 5 years!"

Gimme a break!! Go Tigers and win everything you can. I'm here to enjoy my footy now, not hide in the shadows for 2 years in the hope that some prodigy comes along that will single handedly propel us into finals in 5 years time.  :help

Offline Fwoy3

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #68 on: July 03, 2008, 12:40:47 PM »
Ohhh Ramps change the record!  :banghead I'm not going to sit through watching our team lose for the rest of the season. I want to see wins. Its been proven in the past that high draft picks are still a gamble and plenty of stars have been taken between picks 5-10. The priority pick is already gone so who cares. I want to see us win no matter who we play. I want to read the papers and see the replays. I don't want another season like last year. Have a think about team morale. Have a think about how winning will have an effect on our younger players performance and spirit! We are a club that needs to set an example for our young players.

I'd hate to have you in the rooms for a half time talk. "Okay boys......lets go out there and loose again!!! Remember, a high pick may or may not bring us another potential star that may or may not reach his full potential in the next 5 years!"

Gimme a break!! Go Tigers and win everything you can. I'm here to enjoy my footy now, not hide in the shadows for 2 years in the hope that some prodigy comes along that will single handedly propel us into finals in 5 years time.  :help

+1!  :bow :cheers :clapping :gotigers
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Tigermonk

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #69 on: July 03, 2008, 12:48:29 PM »
Problem is we WERE running in waves to support team mates when Joel was out of the side. It was our intensity that made such a remarkable change to how competitive we were. Joel comes back in and it goes.
I'm not just cherry picking stats and saying that they're all because of the way Joel plays, I'm just trying to give examples to support my argument.

Anyone who thinks we weren't harder at the ball and running harder to support teammates while Joel was out of the side is effing blind.


and you say FishFinger brought nothing to the argument yet your blaming 1 player for the team falling down
1 player dont make a team & 1 player does not cause a team to play a certain way,
what are you putting into this argument is that you dont like Joel as the player he is & l think Joel would excell at another club for example Geelong,  cause they are hard runners which we are not & need to learn to become harder runners to win games.
The coach has no game plan or bothered to change the game plan coming out of the backline cause he dont know any better himself :rollin  thats why & they keep going back to old style cause they dont know any other way & the only way that will change if the coach instructs it differently

Tigermonk

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #70 on: July 03, 2008, 12:50:23 PM »
Ohhh Ramps change the record!  :banghead I'm not going to sit through watching our team lose for the rest of the season. I want to see wins. Its been proven in the past that high draft picks are still a gamble and plenty of stars have been taken between picks 5-10. The priority pick is already gone so who cares. I want to see us win no matter who we play. I want to read the papers and see the replays. I don't want another season like last year. Have a think about team morale. Have a think about how winning will have an effect on our younger players performance and spirit! We are a club that needs to set an example for our young players.

I'd hate to have you in the rooms for a half time talk. "Okay boys......lets go out there and loose again!!! Remember, a high pick may or may not bring us another potential star that may or may not reach his full potential in the next 5 years!"

Gimme a break!! Go Tigers and win everything you can. I'm here to enjoy my footy now, not hide in the shadows for 2 years in the hope that some prodigy comes along that will single handedly propel us into finals in 5 years time.  :help

knowing out luck we recruit another Pettifer or worse Lounder
l want the club to win games l'm tired of feeling gutted after many years

Offline Infamy

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #71 on: July 03, 2008, 01:28:23 PM »
and you say FishFinger brought nothing to the argument yet your blaming 1 player for the team falling down
1 player dont make a team & 1 player does not cause a team to play a certain way,
what are you putting into this argument is that you dont like Joel as the player he is & l think Joel would excell at another club for example Geelong,  cause they are hard runners which we are not & need to learn to become harder runners to win games.
The coach has no game plan or bothered to change the game plan coming out of the backline cause he dont know any better himself :rollin  thats why & they keep going back to old style cause they dont know any other way & the only way that will change if the coach instructs it differently
This has nothing to do with the fact I don't "like" Joel, this is the first year that I've wanted Joel out of the side, I've NEVER gunned for him before. I think he deserved his Jack Dyer medals and deserved his AA selections, but this year I can see that he's holding the side back. I'm also happy to admit that I'm wrong, if Joel gets dropped from the side and we don't lift our intensity then I'll be proven wrong and I'll be more than happy to apologise. If we get back our intensity with him still in the side then I'll also admit my error and apologies. There has been a massive anomoly in the intensity of our side since Joel was dropped and then came back again, I'd like to see if that is a coincidence or not. I'm generally very supportive of our players, you won't see me gunning for any of our kids, including JON, but when I see a senior player who I believe is having a negative effect on our side then I'll call it.

It was all over the media that we dropped Petts, Tivendale & Bowden and all of a sudden the Tigers looked threatening. We brought some back and that form dropped with it. Bowden remains and the form hasn't come back either. Maybe the week before the Port game there was an article about how our backline is more attacking and unpredictable now we have young kids taking the game on rather than Bowden kicking sideways. This is hardly a conspiracy theory, there is sufficient evidence to suggest that it's very likely. There's been plenty of rumours out of the club about Joel not being able to take critisism and how there are factions between the players. Most of the old farts are gone, really only Joel & Tiv remain as Johnson & Brown were imports and I could never imagine Richo giving two poohs about that sort of crap.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 04:13:39 PM by Infamy »

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #72 on: July 03, 2008, 01:50:22 PM »
Was a bad mistake by Joel, WP.  I saw the look on his face when he realised straight away he'd made a bad decision.
There were a few other bad mistakes by other players as well. There was a fair enough reason in hindsight, I think, for one that lead directly to a goal from a dropped sitter.

Agree Fish, the "squib" pass to Morton that happened in earlier in the last qtr by the other player mentioned in this threads title (Hyde) was a shocker as well. That was a crucial turn over IMV Carlton got a goal from that and heads dropped and then the snowball effect took over

As we've all said before ..... Bad decisions and poor skills....
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Ramps

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2008, 02:28:57 PM »
Ohhh Ramps change the record!  :banghead

 :lol

NO  ;D

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!
« Reply #74 on: July 03, 2008, 02:42:35 PM »
Ohhh Ramps change the record!  :banghead I'm not going to sit through watching our team lose for the rest of the season. I want to see wins. Its been proven in the past that high draft picks are still a gamble and plenty of stars have been taken between picks 5-10. The priority pick is already gone so who cares. I want to see us win no matter who we play. I want to read the papers and see the replays. I don't want another season like last year. Have a think about team morale. Have a think about how winning will have an effect on our younger players performance and spirit! We are a club that needs to set an example for our young players.

I'd hate to have you in the rooms for a half time talk. "Okay boys......lets go out there and loose again!!! Remember, a high pick may or may not bring us another potential star that may or may not reach his full potential in the next 5 years!"

Gimme a break!! Go Tigers and win everything you can. I'm here to enjoy my footy now, not hide in the shadows for 2 years in the hope that some prodigy comes along that will single handedly propel us into finals in 5 years time.  :help

knowing out luck we recruit another Pettifer or worse Lounder
l want the club to win games l'm tired of feeling gutted after many years

or another tambling

FFs get off bowden's back. There are about a dozen players worse than him over the weekend..

ill start with tambling, patto, foley and kingy..

i would never ever put bowden in the same league as pathetic pettifer. That guy has brought nothing but weakness to our club, whereas bowden does what is required and thensome.

moving right along

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