Season's over - Bowden & Hyde need to go!

[Infamy]

As I said before, it's not the good things he does, it's the mistakes he makes, the unaccountability and the fact that going through his opponent was one of the major factors in why we lost.
You don't get a good feel of it off the tv because you get limited view of the field
He slows us down when it's our fast paced running game that gets us in winning positions

Not to mention the fact that the time we've played anything close to convincing football this year has been when he was out of the side. It can't just be a coincidence, our form matches his presence in the team.

[Tigermonk]

How can you hold him responsible for the lose when he was responsible for keeping us in the game with a chance to win by setting up goals, His team-mates need to cover for him like all other teams do instead of turning the ball over & Joel being caught out because he was in the play previous 2 balls & players are turning it over softly 2 possessions down the track. How many times does Newman be seen chasing his man or McMahon chasing his  ???  but l dont see Newman copping flak. Joel has done more than enough for his team mates & the club. nearly all his possies were pinpoint & he ran all day, not to mention being put on the bench in the last 1/4 for god knows why but only TW can explain his moves
Its time for his mates stood up & started doing what thier meant too & doing a few extras 1%ers
Tambling, Hyde, Foley, White, McMahon, Brown who cost the game in my view, could have done alot more but too many pick JB cause his always on his own cause thats the way his told to play

[Infamy]

I'm not holding him responsible for the loss, with the exception of maybe 4-5 players the entire team was flat.
The team has been pretty flat since Joel returned to the side.

Answer me this... did the team play better football in the 4 weeks that Joel was out of the side, compared to the rest of the year?

[wayne]

I'm not holding him responsible for the loss, with the exception of maybe 4-5 players the entire team was flat.
The team has been pretty flat since Joel returned to the side.

Answer me this... did the team play better football in the 4 weeks that Joel was out of the side, compared to the rest of the year?

Infinitely better.

Bowden and Pettifer love nothing more than to take a mark, rush back and stand there twirling the ball, waiting for all options to dry up except for the ones behind them.

[Fishfinger]

The team has been pretty flat since Joel returned to the side.

Answer me this... did the team play better football in the 4 weeks that Joel was out of the side, compared to the rest of the year?

The team has won 3 out of 7 since Joel returned to the side.

I think our best football has been the 1st (outstanding) & 3rd quarters against Port plus the 2nd quarter against Melbourne.

[Infamy]

The team has been pretty flat since Joel returned to the side.

Answer me this... did the team play better football in the 4 weeks that Joel was out of the side, compared to the rest of the year?

The team has won 3 out of 7 since Joel returned to the side.

I think our best football has been the 1st (outstanding) & 3rd quarters against Port plus the 2nd quarter against Melbourne.

You're kidding yourself, falling over the line against 3 bottom 4 sides is hardly good form
We pushed 2 Top 4 sides to the limit plus StKilda when Joel was out of the side and completely dominated Fremantle interstate
Since Joel has returned we have been inconsistent and unconvincing in every single game, sure we may have had moment where we put it all together, but we've generally been smashed by middle of the road teams.
We didn't have a single blow out quarter when Joel was out of the side, it was 4 quarter efforts of high intensity football against both top, middle and bottom teams.

[Fishfinger]

So you are holding him responsible.

Kidding myself, hey? 
That 1st quarter against Port is the best football I've seen Richmond play in a long time.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Agree the footy we played rd 4 -7 was significantly better. By round 11 with Petts and Bowden in the side we looked like a rabble especially in the second half of the Adelaide game. Although footy is a team sport certain factors or players in this case can provide an ultimate destiny for the team. Lamentably for those Bowden lovers he and Petts are two of these underlying factors. Both players over the last few years have become complacent in the side and as a result the tricks in their armoury has suffered not that they had much and so has the team. Bowden would be best suited to a club like Sydney or Adelaide who pride themselves on slow build ups with players who have the skill around them and players with discipline who will do the team things. Although Joel has skill he is unaccountable and ill disciplined when it comes to defending at times so in an accountable team like the Crows or Swans where someone will back him up he when he is indisciplined his shortcomings are not as apparent as they were on Saturday and a team like us where we are indisciplined loose generally unskilled and have a coach who is trying to get the side to implement a quick moving game plan to get the ball long (Yes he has successfully tried this look round 4-7 this season) blokes like Bowden expose the system and are detrimental to the team and their progress going forward long term. Hopefully the match commitee and coaching staff see it that way also.

[Fishfinger]

Here we go again. 
Anyone who doesn't agree with your constant Bowden bagging is called a "Bowden lover".

Not sure why you brought up Pettifer but he was 5th in 2006 and 6th in 2007 in the Jack Dyer Medal.
Incidentally, Joel was 4th both years.
Sorry, I'll accept the opinions of people at the club over yours every day of the week.

As far as you hoping the match committee and coaching staff see things the way you do about Joel, it's bound to happen eventually as he nears the age many players retire. They obviously haven't for about 10 years in the meantime. Me neither.

[WilliamPowell]

You don't get a good feel of it off the tv because you get limited view of the field

Infamy, I agree with you on this 100%+. I have said this many times over the years.

The Tv only picks a small area of what is actually happening. TV coverage doesn't pick up the 1%ers, the blocks, shepherds etc. Johnson for example gets bagged for his disposal etc but there are a number of things he does that the TV just doesn't show. Schulz is another ...

Going back to your initial comment about Bowden and that "effort" in the final qtr in the game last week. I was staggered that IMO the first view of it on the TV doesn't make it look as bad as it actually was seeing it live and happening in front of your eyes. But the reverse angle of it fthe looking out from the goal square I think shows it for what it was.

I haven't made any comment (aside from in my votes) about that effort all week probably because I wanted to forget it. All I'll say about it is it was extremely disappointing, a bad decision and leave it at that

[Infamy]

So you are holding him responsible.

Kidding myself, hey? 
That 1st quarter against Port is the best football I've seen Richmond play in a long time.

I am not holding Joel responsible for the loss against Carlton, his performance was good in the first half and then a large part of the problem in the 2nd half. It is a team game and the performance of a single member of the side would have to be absolutely terrible to be soley responsible and I am not claiming that Joel was that bad. What I am saying is that his presence in the side has had a negative effect on our intensity and consistency.

As for the 1st quarter against Port, you are being too short sighted. We played great for 15 minutes against Melbourne too, but we limped home in both games to barely manage a win against two crap sides. When we played a crap side with Bowden out of the side it was our best 4 quarter performance in a long time and we won by 10 goals. Stop looking at the little things, the good little things Joel does are all well and good, but in the big picture we are playing crap football with him in the side, getting smashed against middle of the road sides and barely scraping by against crap sides.

[jackstar]

You don't get a good feel of it off the tv because you get limited view of the field

Infamy, I agree with you on this 100%+. I have said this many times over the years.

The Tv only picks a small area of what is actually happening. TV coverage doesn't pick up the 1%ers, the blocks, shepherds etc. Johnson for example gets bagged for his disposal etc but there are a number of things he does that the TV just doesn't show. Schulz is another ...

Going back to your initial comment about Bowden and that "effort" in the final qtr in the game last week. I was staggered that IMO the first view of it on the TV doesn't make it look as bad as it actually was seeing it live and happening in front of your eyes. But the reverse angle of it fthe looking out from the goal square I think shows it for what it was.

I haven't made any comment (aside from in my votes) about that effort all week probably because I wanted to forget it. All I'll say about it is it was extremely disappointing, a bad decision and leave it at that

Scultz, he actually blocks his own self.
He get in the road of himself, thats why he is down at Coburg

[Fishfinger]

What I am saying is that his presence in the side has had a negative effect on our intensity and consistency.

Stop looking at the little things, the good little things Joel does are all well and good, but in the big picture we are playing crap football with him in the side, getting smashed against middle of the road sides and barely scraping by against crap sides.

And you are not holding him responsible?  ???

I had my glasses on.   That 1st quarter against Port is the best football I've seen Richmond play in a long time.


Was a bad mistake by Joel, WP.  I saw the look on his face when he realised straight away he'd made a bad decision.
There were a few other bad mistakes by other players as well. There was a fair enough reason in hindsight, I think, for one that lead directly to a goal from a dropped sitter.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Here we go again. 
Anyone who doesn't agree with your constant Bowden bagging is called a "Bowden lover".

Not sure why you brought up Pettifer but he was 5th in 2006 and 6th in 2007 in the Jack Dyer Medal.
Incidentally, Joel was 4th both years.
Sorry, I'll accept the opinions of people at the club over yours every day of the week.

As far as you hoping the match committee and coaching staff see things the way you do about Joel, it's bound to happen eventually as he nears the age many players retire. They obviously haven't for about 10 years in the meantime. Me neither.

[Infamy]

And you are not holding him responsible????

How many times do I have to repeat myself? I'd offer to spell it out to you but it's already in text form, just try reading it

I had my glasses on.   That 1st quarter against Port is the best football I've seen Richmond play in a long time.

You are still looking at minor details, we may have played well for a quarter but we played crap the rest of the game, Joel's icing the clock almost lost us the game. He wouldn't have had to take the match saving mark had he not slowed us up for the last 15mins.

We didn't have a single blowout in any quarter when Bowden was out of the side NOT ONE!!! Yet as soon as he comes back againt Geelong we get creamed in the 3rd 7 goals to 1, against Essendon our 3rd quarter also was rubbish 6 goals to 2, against Sydney, smashed all day, against Adelaide our 2nd half was crap 15 goals to 5, againt Melbourne 3rd quarter was 5 goals to 2, 4th quarter against port 5 goals to 1.

EVERY SINGLE game with Bowden in the side we have lapse and played poor football, without him our worst quarter was 7 goals to 4 against the Bulldogs in the last quarter, the 3 goal difference only coming in the last 3 minutes. Other than that it was no more than 1-2 goals each way.