Trouble is brewing

[froars]

Doesn't answer my question before - who stands down next year.
Are they gonna have a ballot for 3 people to stand down?
Geez, i hope Macek can fit the RFC into his busy schedule.  In between selling off Telstra, doubt he'd have much time for the RFC.
I hope Welsh leaves any matters on the footy side alone.
I hope Schwab stops thinking he owns the RFC just because his daddy was a great RFC person - Cameron Schwab was enough to prove these Schwab half-wit progeny should stay away from our club.
Can't wait for my voting slip.

[one-eyed]

Tigers vote spells all change - or none
By Stephen Rielly
The Age
November 11, 2004

The path to an all-or-nothing Richmond election result was paved yesterday when Clinton Casey and his fellow directors announced that a spill of all nine board positions would occur, a decision likely to return the incumbents or usher in a completely new administration.

The decision, which followed a meeting between Casey and his would-be successor, Charles Macek, was revealed yesterday with a December 22 date for the annual meeting.

The Macek group immediately flagged its intention to push for a senate-style ballot paper that will enable Tiger members to vote for one ticket or the other, a move that, if agreed to by Casey's board, will point to a presidential-style contest and work against the possibility of a split outcome.

"That is the one further request we will make of the club; a ballot paper where you can vote above the line for one ticket or the other or, if you choose, vote for each of the individuals on the paper below the line, which is required by the constitution," Macek said.

"This won't disenfranchise members who want to vote for individuals and it doesn't disenfranchise those members who might want to stand as independents. These things are required by the constitution but we don't see why we can't have an addition to that by permitting for those people who wish to vote above the line for a whole ticket.

"That way you can be absolutely certain that you're going to get a united team rather than a hybrid board of nine individuals that may not have the required skill set or be able to work together effectively."

A full spill was one of several demands the Macek ticket made in return for holding off on a push for an extraordinary meeting. In calmer times, only three of the club's nine directors would have faced an election.

"We've finally, after many months, got confirmation that that would be happening and that obviously gives the members of the club the opportunity to vote for whichever team they think is best to take them forward in terms of leading the process of rebuilding," Macek said.

"I had a meeting with Clinton yesterday, a courtesy meeting, because I hadn't had the opportunity ot meeting with him. He is the president and I felt he deserved that courtesy.

"He was frank with me. The one issue I did express some concern, when he raised it, was that we did need confirmation of a full spill. He indicated that there would be a full spill, that he would address the issue at a board meeting, which was held last night and he's been true to his word."

Casey was unavailable for comment last night.

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2004/11/10/1100021878929.html

[cub]

"That way you can be absolutely certain that you're going to get a united team rather than a hybrid board of nine individuals that may not have the required skill set or be able to work together effectively."


http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2004/11/10/1100021878929.html

stuffen hell - They will just not give the us versus them thing a rest will they - If Macek and co keep carrying on like this my vote goes straight to the current board. They are just not doing it for the sake of Richmond just a bunch of ego's that is if Macek is speaking for all of them 

I am going to hold my breath and sit in the corner now until I get my way   

[WilliamPowell]

Charles Macek was on SEN just after the 7.30am news - I didn't hear all of it probably half.

In summary Macek said the following:

- The alternative were "absolutely delighted" that there was going to an election
- Will still push for a senate style voting ticket
- Would not commit to what his ticket members would do if a new board was made up of  say independants, part current board members and part his ticket. He said it was the members right to do that but it would be "problematic"
- said he was surprised about how positive Tigerland was at the moment considering we had lost 14 games in the row and were million of dollars in debt.

The above highlights why I will not support the alternative. Firstly they don't seem to be prepared to accept the members decision by not commiting to work with whoever is elected.

Secondly and this really gets me - YES we are going to lose $2.5million this season but WE ARE NOT MILLIONS of dollars in debt. After the loss we will be approxmiately $600,000 in debt. Stop the scare mongering!

Clinton Casey was on SEN and Sport 927:

In summary he said

- that the senate style ticket is not a democratic way for members to vote and the constitution doens't allow it and the y election would be run as per the constitution
- he is expecting a number independants to run
- gave the commitment that he would accept the members vote and would work with whoever gets elected.
- he said although the current board didn't believe a full spill of positions wa sin the CLubs best interest they had done it because they had given their word.
- said that this election was always going to happen because that was the agreement and that it was disappointing that there had been reports in the media from the alternative ticket stating that that this wasn't going to happen.

I think it is fair to say that Casey has kept his word

[WilliamPowell]

It is my right and every members right under the Club's constitution to vote for and pick the best individual candidates available. I would've thought if you had the best interests of the Club at heart you wouldn't put what's best for a faction ahead of the Club  . If any candidate(s) can't accept that we the members can judge for ourselves what's best for the Club and instead want to shotgun over us then they can take a hike. It this sort of crap that's screwed the RFC all these years  .

Here here MT spot on.

It's certainly going to be an interesting time.

In all honesty there a couple of people on the Alternative ticket that I'd like to see on the board (then there is a number of them I don't want there  ) but before I vote I want a guarantee from all candidates that they will work with whoever elses is elected. As I've said before if they cannot do that then they shouldn't be standing and wont get my vote.

[Tiger Spirit]

I presume TS that most of the current board and the alternative ticket will run as candidates. It'll be interesting to see if any independents now put their hand up.

The best scenario would be if we get some genuine, outstanding and independent candidates to vote for MT.  Agree with your comments too.

But when this election is over, the reality could be that we may not have the ideal composition of the RFC Board.  And if the Club was always run according to the constitution there wouldn’t be the need to go through any of this.  But as tough as things may be for the short-term, at least it’s a starting point and a step in the right direction to finally seeing RFC run democratically.

However, given their attitude and the way Macek’s group have conducted themselves throughout this campaign, you wonder whether that start would continue under them.  Because what has been made all but clear, if it wasn’t already clear from the start, is the true colours of the Alternative ticket.

And the level of naivety, blinkeredness, narrow mindedness, selfishness and backwardness coming from these people is beyond belief. 

The Macek group immediately flagged its intention to push for a senate-style ballot paper that will enable Tiger members to vote for one ticket or the other, a move that, if agreed to by Casey's board, will point to a presidential-style contest and work against the possibility of a split outcome.

"That way you can be absolutely certain that you're going to get a united team rather than a hybrid board of nine individuals that may not have the required skill set or be able to work together effectively."

If what Macek has said is his group’s attitude to this election then that alone is reason enough to steer well clear of all of them, because who and what gives them the right to dictate terms and want things to be conducted in a manner to suit their own cause, rather than as the Club’s constitution intends them to be carried out, which gives members enough credit to be able to decide for themselves who is best to represent their Club?  And if they’re not prepared to accept the decision made by members now, in accordance with the Club's constitution, then what chance would there be of that happening, were they to be elected?  Under the influence of such attitudes, you have to wonder how long it would be before we would revert to what we’ve had in the past, which is an unaccountable Board/Administration and being told by a select few what we want.  In effect, all that we have gone through now, to get to this stage, would come to nothing.

As others have commented, for Macek to admit that it would be difficult to work with current Board members, if a combination of the two parties were to be elected, only reinforces the view that they have done this for reasons of self-interest, rather than the interests of the Richmond Football Club.  How else can you view these comments?

This election provides the best opportunity we have ever had to change things for the better and steer away from the past.  And the traits displayed by those putting themselves up for election are the traits that they will no doubt carry with them onto the Board.  And if Macek’s attitude and thinking is typical of past Board members then it’s easy to see why we’ve been such a basket case all these years.  If we’re happy with the past then they are the answer.  But if we want something better then let’s hope some genuine candidates come forward and that this dream doesn’t become our worst nightmare.

Change for the sake of change isn’t an answer or solution to anything.  So if members are serious about wanting change then look forward, rather than backwards and see who is genuine and who isn’t.  And see those who aren’t living in the past and can take us forward.  Because the risks are minimised by selecting those who are focused on the future and improving things for RFC, rather than on getting the best result for themselves.

[mightytiges]

Thanks for the summary WP 
 

Charles Macek was on SEN just after the 7.30am news - I didn't hear all of it probably half.

- Would not commit to what his ticket members would do if a new board was made up of  say independants, part current board members and part his ticket. He said it was the members right to do that but it would be "problematic"

It would only be "problematic" if those on the post-election board make it so. In any case everyone needs to accept the outcome of the election whatever it is. If they can't and want to instead to continue to destabilise the Club behind the scenes then they can bugger off and follow someone else!

- said he was surprised about how positive Tigerland was at the moment considering we had lost 14 games in the row and were million of dollars in debt.

I'm surprised at him being surprised. No Spud  , Wallace on board, 12 changes to our list, 5 picks in the top 20 and rebuilding via youth - why wouldn't you be positive. As for the millions of dollars in debt crap . Very hard for the alternative to take the high moral ground in regards to being honest towards the members when they continue to make statements such as this. 

Clinton Casey was on SEN and Sport 927:

In summary he said

- that the senate style ticket is not a democratic way for members to vote and the constitution doens't allow it and the y election would be run as per the constitution

Good to hear. We as members can think for ourselves you know  .

- he is expecting a number independants to run

The more quality ones the better as it gives up greater choice.

- gave the commitment that he would accept the members vote and would work with whoever gets elected.

That's if you're still on the board after the vote Clinton 

[mightytiges]

Top post TS 

The best scenario would be if we get some genuine, outstanding and independent candidates to vote for MT. 

IMO the only way we are going to get more genuine, outstanding and independent candidates to run at RFC elections is if they feel they will be able to contribute to the Club without being marginalised, hindered and/or underminded by factions and egos. No one genuine will put their hand up if they feel it's going to be a complete waste of their time trying to combat the us and them environment we've had for 20 years as opposed to a constructive, creative and united one. As you said TS, this election and the demeanour of the post-election board whoever they will be, will be our best chance to break away from our sick self-destructive past.

[cub]

WP

One thing Macek said was that the members will not vote on who leads - when the new board is decided they will elect the
 el presidente - so we must be careful here 

[mightytiges]

One thing Macek said was that the members will not vote on who leads - when the new board is decided they will elect the el presidente - so we must be careful here 

The board members choosing who out of them will be president has always been the way. I don't have a problem with that as it stops the presidential role becoming a popularity contest.

[Harry]

I am basically totally undecided on this whole issue at the moment.

During the past couple of years I have been the biggest critic of this club.  From the players to the coach to the board members.  I was frustrated each week by seeing useless players being named each week, pathetic coaching moves being made and unconditional support being given from the president, football director and board members to the coach.  This made my blood boil and after 2-3 years of this I had enough.  Along with the 2-3M dollar losses, I wanted change at every level.

Now I sit back and see the massive positive changes taking place at the club.  Changes that I hve been crying out for for so long.  I have confidence that with Miller and Wallace in charge, we will be much more competitive.  It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when we play in regular finals. 

So at the end of the day it's all about the on-field football stuff.  It's all about how successful you are on the park.  You can have the best financial and marketing policies, but if you are crap on the field you will find yourself in the situation we are in.  Would have made NO difference who was on the board and who was president during the past 5 years.

In saying all this however, whoever gets elected will not have a major impact in our revival, as the fundumental foundations have already been set.  The right coaching panel have been employed, the right football director is in place, the right CEO has been appointed and the right quality kids will be drafted.  Therefore whoever gets elected now will automatically become more successful than the previous lot and will reap the rewards of the seeds that have already been planted.

Irrelevant election IMO and no better time for a donkey vote.

[1980]

I am basically totally undecided on this whole issue at the moment.

During the past couple of years I have been the biggest critic of this club.  From the players to the coach to the board members.  I was frustrated each week by seeing useless players being named each week, pathetic coaching moves being made and unconditional support being given from the president, football director and board members to the coach.  This made my blood boil and after 2-3 years of this I had enough.  Along with the 2-3M dollar losses, I wanted change at every level.

Now I sit back and see the massive positive changes taking place at the club.  Changes that I hve been crying out for for so long.  I have confidence that with Miller and Wallace in charge, we will be much more competitive.  It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when we play in regular finals. 

So at the end of the day it's all about the on-field football stuff.  It's all about how successful you are on the park.  You can have the best financial and marketing policies, but if you are crap on the field you will find yourself in the situation we are in.  Would have made NO difference who was on the board and who was president during the past 5 years.

In saying all this however, whoever gets elected will not have a major impact in our revival, as the fundumental foundations have already been set.  The right coaching panel have been employed, the right football director is in place, the right CEO has been appointed and the right quality kids will be drafted.  Therefore whoever gets elected now will automatically become more successful than the previous lot and will reap the rewards of the seeds that have already been planted.

Irrelevant election IMO and no better time for a donkey vote.

I'm with you Harry. I wanted the place turned upside down, but am prepared to see whether the recent changes will work.

Except the part about Greg Miller. A good PR man, good PR for himself that is, but a wooden spoon is what he's contributed to the club, and he's been there long enough to avoid it. How good would North Melb have been without Dennis Pagan anyway? And look at what their financial position was when they kicked Miller out.

Thankfully, I do have faith in Wallace toughening the players up, and putting some discipline into the way we play footy.

[Fishfinger]

Except the part about Greg Miller. A good PR man, good PR for himself that is, but a wooden spoon is what he's contributed to the club, and he's been there long enough to avoid it.

I'm not sure you're giving him much of a chance 1980. Didn't he come to the club after the 2002 draft?
I'm sure this is only the second draft he has been involved in for the club. That means his input on list management started by effectively clearing as many players off the list as Carlton did ready for the 2003 draft. (Carlton had more retirements, so a couple extra replacements)
Miller has had to start from scratch and to judge his success on one season is a touch harsh.

[Harry]

I hear you Amazing 80's and agree with you to an extent re Miller.

I have been very critical of some of Millers recruiting decisions in the past 2 years and i am one of few who thinks that recruiting Brown and Johnson was a mistake.  Let's not mention the extension of the spud cotract. 

But he has redeemed himself to an extent by playing an integral role in the appointment of Wallace, and it is Wallace and his assistants that I have placed most of my remaining hope into.  For Miller's, RFC's and our sake, let's pray Wallace can deliver.  Cos if this fails, then I don't see where we can go from here.

[Tiger Spirit]

In saying all this however, whoever gets elected will not have a major impact in our revival, as the fundumental foundations have already been set. The right coaching panel have been employed, the right football director is in place, the right CEO has been appointed and the right quality kids will be drafted. Therefore whoever gets elected now will automatically become more successful than the previous lot and will reap the rewards of the seeds that have already been planted.

That’s assuming all those voted on have half a clue HarryH.  Because it’s only if and when the administration/Board do their job properly that the changes you talk about can happen.  And the people who can make things happen are those who know what they are doing.  Otherwise, you get what we’ve had all these years, even though many well meaning people have tried and failed.

The reason we’ve been so ordinary on the field is because we’ve been ordinary off the field.  And we can never have success on the field without a stable and functional Board/Administration.  People who don’t have the capacity or ability to take the Club forward will mire it where it has been.  No question.

Just voting in anyone and thinking this is a nothing election could reverse everything that has been done to now, if we don’t have people on the Board who can ensure that the changes made so far will turn into success down the track.  And it’s not like there aren’t other decisions to be made now and in the future and you want people who know what they are doing making those decisions.

Thinking that Miller and Wallace alone will save the footy club is ok, as long as you know they have a solid Board/Administration behind them.  With the wrong people in charge, their authority could be undermined and their impact diminished.

We know how difficult it has been, just to get things to this stage.  So let’s not get blasé about things and think that the make up of the Board is now irrelevant just because some positive changes have been made.  It doesn't all end there.  It’s not just important to know who to vote for, it’s crucial to where RFC goes from hereon in.