Trouble is brewing

[WilliamPowell]

Well WP we've been at this all week so neither of us is going to change our minds LOL

That we have 1980 and it's been a good debate I reckon

Macek is a viable alternative because when he was on the board we had $1m in the bank. Now we have a loss of $2.4m.

Interesting way at looking at 1980. I don't think you can say he is the sole reason why we had money.

And just to show how easy it is to make things look bad...

Macek was on the board from May 1994 to Dec 1999. The RFC year runs from Nov to Oct.

Just looking at the books for the years Macek  was on the board it says that in Macek's final year onthe board 1999/2000 the Club lost just under $640,000. How do you think Macek would explain that? I reckon he'd say like Brendan Schwab I wasn't on the board so it aint my fault.

And just to clarify we lose $2.1 million doesn't mean we are $2.1 million in debt. My maths tells me that we will have a debt of $600,000 not great but certainly managable

They have explained their reasons for this course of actions. 2.4m of them. Their reason is the club is badly run, losing money, turning profits into losses, not attracting corporate sponsers, winning wooden spoons. Appointing crap CEOs then firing them....

How many more reasons do you need?

And when are Schwab and Welsh (the forgetten man ) going to take some responsibility for their actions in the loss over the last 3 years.

I know I harp on this but they really need to take some responsibility and until they do there is absolute no way I would even consider voting for them.

[Jackstar]

Fact, Casey was never a Essendon supporter. His brother Mark is an Essendonian.. Clinton PLAYED football in the Essendon District. FACT. He won 3 competition Best and Fairest. 1981-1984  FACT.
Because he played football and grew up in Essendon doesnt make him an ESSENDON SUPPORTER, Guilty by association.
Fair dinkum !
His Dad actually took him to Richmond games as a kid. How do I know, I went to school with him !

[1980]

And when are Schwab and Welsh (the forgetten man ) going to take some responsibility for their actions in the loss over the last 3 years.

I know I harp on this but they really need to take some responsibility and until they do there is absolute no way I would even consider voting for them.

They did take responsibility. They resigned. That is the only option available to a director if he disagrees with the way a board is operating. Resign.

Not only did they resign because the club was making losses, but because the president was not informing the rest of the board of the size of the losses. That is their claim. When you've got a pres that runs a one man board, which Casey has been doing for 5 years, you go. They did.

And, its not just about the books. This clown was appointing CEOs on his own. Even when Campbell was sacked, he was going to appoint the new CEO without the board even having the opportunity of interviewing him.

Its an easy debate when its about swab and whether he is a suitable president. But its very difficult to argue that Clinton Casey has done a good job as pres for the RFC. He is to the presidents job what Frawley was to the coaching job. We're better off without both of them.

[Jackstar]

Hey 1980, I totally agree with your last post, you are right.
I would believe they have learnt by there mistakes.
Do you put the alternative ticket in and make the same mistakes in the learning process ?
I will tell you something, Mickey Mouse, Woosha Welsh, and  or  Macek arent the answer either ?
Macek, lets dont go there, something about backs and knifes 
Hasnt got many friends you might find !
Its amazing the somebody puts there hand up and wants to be President and people say, yeah he is the right man without knowing there background. It seems alot of these people are on ego trips.
we need a leader of people, not back stabbers or ego chasers

[1980]

Macek is a viable alternative because when he was on the board we had $1m in the bank. Now we have a loss of $2.4m.

We might have had money in the bank, but we couldn’t play footy to save ourselves.  Can they guarantee they can put together a competitive team on the ground?

They have explained their reasons for this course of actions. 2.4m of them. Their reason is the club is badly run, losing money, turning profits into losses, not attracting corporate sponsers, winning wooden spoons. Appointing crap CEOs then firing them....

How many more reasons do you need?

I think I’ve explained myself, time after time.  As WP says, we know what’s wrong, we just want to know how they will fix it.  If I don’t know that then how can I or anyone support them?  I don’t expect you to agree or even like my view, but it’s the only one I have.  I want the Club run democratically, not by a bunch of short-sighted nuff nuffs who just seem to have their collective noses out of joint, because they haven’t given any logical explanation as to why they are doing this.

Seems to me the only time you think that warrants a change of board is if the club is reduced again to rattling tins again. Everything else is fine with you up to that point.

If you think that the alternative is ok, then you believe that.  But I have seen nothing that makes me think they can do any better.  They might be conservative enough to get us back on a financial footing but, from what they have shown, they do not have the vision and capacity to ensure that we put together a team capable of playing competitive football, which, in time, will undoubtedly ensure more upheaval and turmoil.

So, rather than coming to that inevitable conclusion, why don’t we just start running our Club in a democratic way and cut the petty rebel ticket scenarios every other year?  That’s where I’m coming from.

Where were you in Sept 1995? First finals in 13 years? Beating the scum of all scum in a semi-final!!!

How many wooden spoons did we win when Macek was on the board?

Are you telling me we've put competitive teams on the ground whilst Casey was president? 7 wins 2002, 7 wins 2003, wooden spooners 2004.

Really TS!!!

Mate, I normally enjoy your posts. Not to say I dont enjoy your posts on this thread either. But telling me we wont be able to put out competitive teams without Casey as the president is bordering on the ridiculous.

[1980]

Hey 1980, I totally agree with your last post, you are right.
I would believe they have learnt by there mistakes.
Do you put the alternative ticket in and make the same mistakes in the learning process ?
I will tell you something, Mickey Mouse, Woosha Welsh, and  or  Macek arent the answer either ?
Macek, lets dont go there, something about backs and knifes 
Hasnt got many friends you might find !
Its amazing the somebody puts there hand up and wants to be President and people say, yeah he is the right man without knowing there background. It seems alot of these people are on ego trips.
we need a leader of people, not back stabbers or ego chasers

And right there Jackstar, you've summed up the whole debate. What we have sucks. The alternative we're offered sucks too.

Some of us think if we're going to have someone as president that sucks, why bother changing the one we already have that sucks.

Others of us, ie me, wants a message sent from the members that if you screw up, you go. And that may be just a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. But I am a strong believer that if you let a guy like Casey lose money, and he gets away with it, he'll take us for granted and do it again. He has been acting much more democratically and accountable to the members since the challenges started. And that may be the only good thing that comes out of all this. Maybe...

[Tiger Spirit]

Mate, I normally enjoy your posts. Not to say I dont enjoy your posts on this thread either. But telling me we wont be able to put out competitive teams without Casey as the president is bordering on the ridiculous.

1980, that’s your interpretation of what I said and isn’t what I said or meant.  If you read and clearly understand what I have said you will see the reason for my stance on this.

I’m just giving my view on the situation that I see before me and where I see it’s more than likely headed, given past history.  If we want to change the way this Club is run then it has to start with us members.  For members to allow a rebel ticket to come in will send us down the same path as before and it’s our fault if that happens.  At least if we get to have a say as to who goes on the Board then there can be no complaints.  Is it unfair or unreasonable to expect to have a say as a member of the footy Club?

The easy way out is to bring in a new group because they are shiny and new and will solve all our problems.  We hope.  We’ve been doing that since who knows when and it’s never worked.  The tough thing for us to do now would be for us members to take the hard road and take back some control of the Club.  Because I’m fed up with people like Schwab and Welsh, who have had their go, coming in and rail roading the Club whenever they feel like it.  That’s what I want to stop.

If you still don’t understand what I’m trying to say then maybe we should just agree to disagree.

[Tiger Spirit]

Others of us, ie me, wants a message sent from the members that if you screw up, you go. And that may be just a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. But I am a strong believer that if you let a guy like Casey lose money, and he gets away with it, he'll take us for granted and do it again. He has been acting much more democratically and accountable to the members since the challenges started. And that may be the only good thing that comes out of all this. Maybe...

1980, I can understand the reason for you being so upset with Casey and it’s really funny that I’m so upset with Schwab, so is it any wonder we can’t agree on this.

But at least I understand you a bit better now.

If it makes it any better, Casey has put himself up for re-election this time round, even though he wasn’t due for re-election this year, I believe.  Members can have their say then.

Is that fair and reasonable? 

[1980]

Others of us, ie me, wants a message sent from the members that if you screw up, you go. And that may be just a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. But I am a strong believer that if you let a guy like Casey lose money, and he gets away with it, he'll take us for granted and do it again. He has been acting much more democratically and accountable to the members since the challenges started. And that may be the only good thing that comes out of all this. Maybe...

1980, I can understand the reason for you being so upset with Casey and it’s really funny that I’m so upset with Schwab, so is it any wonder we can’t agree on this.

But at least I understand you a bit better now.

If it makes it any better, Casey has put himself up for re-election this time round, even though he wasn’t due for re-election this year, I believe.  Members can have their say then.

Is that fair and reasonable? 

LMAO TS at one hating Casey and the other hating swab. You'd think both numnuts would cancel each other out.

Anyway, this is all a moot discussion now. Casey said if someone better qualified came up he'd step aside. He's had an easy time arguing this against a d1k like swab, but he's got no chance of arguing that he's a better corporate leader than Macek. So, if he sticks to his word, he's going to step aside for the good of the club. And the rest of the ticket challenging (ie swab and Welsh) can disappear.

[mightytiges]

Like froars and TS, I hope there is no handover and we have an election. Those who want to lead our club into the future should face the members with their plans before us. The future board whoever they are needs to be passed by the majority of members; not given power in a backroom somewhere on a platter. They need to be held accountable.

My concerns as has been the case all along is we'll replace one failed board with another board run by ex-board members who have failed us in the past. The Alternative ticket now has four of them.

As much as Macek may be a friendlier and approachable person and has excellent business credentials, when he was last on the board from 94-99 we went through 3 coaches with a 4th needing to be appointed when he left. As a result, unlike this year with Wallace, no decent aspirant coach wanted to go near us by the end of 1999 so we ended up with Frawley. Like Casey's regime our on-field performance after a fleeting finals campaign was mediocre with finishes of 9th in 96, 12th in 97(misleading given we won 4 out of our last 5 after Geisch replaced the sacked Walls), 9th in 98 and 13th in 99. At the end of 1998 promises of major changes were made but unlike now nothing was done about it and we remained in mediocre land. In 99 despite lagging in the bottom 4 we re-signed Daffy, Knights, Cambo and Richo to $$$ and long-term deals. On top of this as TS has already mentioned the club was run on a shoe-string budget. Yes that's better than losing $2.4 mill but we weren't going anywhere.

As much as I don't want Casey around either due to his failed record, at least now I see positive change occurring. It's taken a year of major stupidity and failure to do it - a wooden spoon as well as putting heaps of $$$ into a footy department that blind freddy could see would fail again big time in the hope success would come out of thin air - but nevertheless the Club is now moving forward.

As for current and future plans:

- Not caving in to outside pressure and sacking the coach unlike previous admins. Short term agony for long term benefit (ie. getting Wallace). I know many disagree with me in keeping on Danny.
- The appointments of Wright along with Wallace to go with Miller.
- The beginnings of a total clean out of our list and finally the Club understanding the merits of drafting youth.
- Our TTP will be reduced from 100% to 97% and ridiculous $$$ contracts should become a thing of the past.
- Recognition that's we've got a big job to fix us up and it's going to take time.
- Wright mentioned on club snorner that we'll be now following realistic and achievable budgets. We won't be relying on and budgeting for good gate receipt numbers and a good on-field performance to balance the books as we've done in the past.
- AFL acceptance of our 2005 and beyond business plan.

One area I haven't heard from the current board is how they'll increase the all important corporate sponsorship dollar. Wright made mention of the need for it but no detailed plans has been shown. 
 
All I've heard from the alternative is ear-friendly rhetoric, their support for the appointments of Wright, Miller and Wallace and what is and went wrong. We already know about these things and in regard to what went wrong we know why it happened.

Where's your alternative detailed future plans boys and girl?

[mightytiges]

Casey to fight rebel Tigers
By Jake Niall
realfooty.theage.com.au
September 9, 2004

In confirming his desire to remain at the helm at Tigerland, Richmond president Clinton Casey has taken a swipe at the "recycled" reform ticket led by former director Charles Macek.

Casey yesterday issued a statement in which he declared his intention to stay as president - ensuring Richmond members would face a full board election in December between the nine challengers and the board.

Casey said that the Richmond board, which met on Tuesday night, was "unified" despite claims from the Macek-Brendan Schwab group that the board was fractured in its support for the president.

While some board members have held discussions with Macek's group, none has moved across to the other camp. The rebels, who replaced Schwab with the more corporate-connected Macek as their prospective president, claim that only their group can bring the necessary unity to Punt Road.

Casey maintains it is not a time for the club to take "an unnecessary risk" by changing the board, adding that he did not think the Macek-led group represented the "suitable" people he was prepared to stand aside for.

"After consultation with fellow board members, as well as discussions with sponsors, coterie groups and members, I believe I have strong support as president," he said.

Casey said he stood by his promise to step aside if a more suitable candidate emerged, but added: "After reviewing the alternative ticket, I still believe that I am the most appropriate person to lead the club through such a delicate period. In regard to the new candidates on the ticket, I welcome the opportunity to meet anyone who believes they have something to offer. However, I don't believe this is the time for recycling former board members who had their chance to have an impact on the Club."

Macek served as a director under Leon Daphne's presidency and sought the presidency when Daphne resigned. Schwab, liquidation specialist Mike Humpris and former football director Peter Welsh - who like Schwab, resigned from the Casey board - are other "recycled" board candidates on the rebel ticket.

Casey said the club's "recovery" was on the way, with 50 professionals having committed $250,000 to part of a coterie group with access to new coach Terry Wallace and "several exciting sponsorship developments".

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2004/09/08/1094530690368.html

[WilliamPowell]

Casey said he stood by his promise to step aside if a more suitable candidate emerged, but added: "After reviewing the alternative ticket, I still believe that I am the most appropriate person to lead the club through such a delicate period. In regard to the new candidates on the ticket, I welcome the opportunity to meet anyone who believes they have something to offer. However, I don't believe this is the time for recycling former board members who had their chance to have an impact on the Club."

Has Clinton been reading OER ???

[RonBranton]

Casey said the club's "recovery" was on the way, with 50 professionals having committed $250,000 to part of a coterie group with access to new coach Terry Wallace and "several exciting sponsorship developments".

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2004/09/08/1094530690368.html

I have to wonder if this is true, wishful thinking, a work in progress or simply untrue. I have never heard of such a coterie being formed yet alone being already in place. I have asked a number of people in other coterie groups which would normally be approached and they know nothing about it.

Has anyone heard of it - ?

[Jackstar]

Didnt you put $5000  in Ronnie, I did
Maybe you should stop bidding for frivilous things at the auction last night
Didnt you win that night for three at Daylesford ? I know who you could take as the third person
Maybe you should ask more influencial supporters

[mightytiges]

What was Eddie going on about at the start of TFS? Mentioned, along with the Rick Lewis slamming the AFL (not holding any punches either lol) and Don Scott at Hawthorn, about some news at Tigerland !?