CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME......

[TigerTime]

WHAT HAS TERRY REALLY ACHIEVED IN 5 PRESEASONS AND 4 YEARS AND 4 ROUNDS OF HIS COACHING STINT.

his win loss record is worse than spuds or equal to it, we know he cleamed possum poo and painten a room or 2, but what has he really achieved

his 5 year plan has proved only one thing , that he is a great salesman and has bluffed us all.

if i have missed something positive that he has done to make us a better team and play damn good consistant football, please enlighten me?

cos i have been reflecting over the past 4 years , not 4 weeks, and we have achieved squat

[mightytiges]

We have a young core for a new coach to build at least around which we didn't have in 2004. Mistakes at the draft table were made obviously and the list still lacks enough class but at least we now have some young framework 22 y.o. and under to build upon.

The new coach will also have access to far better resources both in terms of recruiting and training (redevelopments at Punt Rd and Craigieburn). Hopefully that means now we'll have multiple scouts at TAC games and alike giving various opinions and individual feedback on potential draftees rather than just the coach and the Club leaving it to Miller or Beck to be one-man bands which lead to the mistakes at the draft table 4,5,6 ... 10+ years ago. The more faith you have in your recruiting department to deliver then bigger the broom the new coach can use on our list.

[mat073]

TW had the courage to retire serviceable players like Gasper and Andy Kellaway for the greater good of the team.TW had the courage to play our best forward on the wing when the vulchers were circling last year....all for the greater good and an eye for the future.Its a massive shame that our young forwards are not stepping up at the moment.

I agree that our recruiting has been very ordinary during his time.Deledio and Cotchin were no brainers and fell into our lap.The term "JON' might be used in future generations to decribe a player who was a high draft pick and turned out to be a dud.The 2004 draft when we had 5 picks in the first 20 was Richmonds big chance and it looks like we blew it.But is it all TWs fault or the RFC for not having the right recruiting personnel.

Spuds and TWs coaching records are very similar but you would have to agree that Danny took over a much more competitive unit than TW with players like Knights Campbell Daffy Richo Gale Brodrick Gasper both Kellaways all (close) in their prime.Plus a young gun like Ottens.

I am happy for TW to fall on his sword.Finals or Bust.5 years is long enough.Dont sack him just to appease the hysterical masses because things look bleak after round 4.

An interesting question is what happens to TW if we do a "Brisbane Bears 95" and make the 8 winning only 10 games for the year.

[TigerTime]

still no answers
tw has done squat in reality, how can ppl say he has left us with a better list tan before when our win/loss ratio is no different
we are left with a listwith different names but equak bad performance
he has not left us a list to work with , just another list to rebuild

im thinking about this without my rfc hat on, obviously some people cannot do that
5 years bloody wasted

at least danny got us into 1 finals series

[Go Richo 12]

You give the coach too much credit/criticism! What bdid Robert Walls do, what did Allen Jeans do? KB? Geisch? Its the players and the culture that does this to clubs, not a coach who in reality has been there for a whole 5 minutes in the grander schemem of things!

[tigertough12]

name one coach that has gone to Subiaco twice in 1 year and come home with wins totalling over 150pts?

 

[Moi]

still no answers

You got answers, you just didn't like them
Gee you remind me of someone 

[TigerTime]

OK GRANNTED, we have gone interstate twice in one year and defeated the eagles and freo ,,,but they were at their worst, how can i remain positive that terry has been a success because he pulled a win in perth twice, pulled off two miracle wins, one v the crows and one v the cats at kardinia park.

now im not talking about the past, not talking about jeans, northey , kb the giesh, walls etc
im talking about here and now and about terry, now i have been a big terry fan but my tune changed v the dees because i started thinking about things without my heart and passion , just being realistic

now being realistic were are rock bottom again, just where we were when terry started

facts are , terry has achieved very very little, if not anything at all

the truth often hurts

[TigerTime]

still no answers

You got answers, you just didn't like them
Gee you remind me of someone 

im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .

is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many

[Stripes]

TigerTime, TW is an easy target but the damage was done before and around him. Our recruiters should shoulder a lot of the blame for our current list as should our current leaders. TW should be held accountable fore his tactics and style of play which I feel are too advanced for our players atm.

We have had multiple discussions on this board about the sheer amount of players that TW has turned over in his time at the club and the amount of games he has invested into them. Many other teams have a young list but Richmond has more young players with AFL experience than any other club.

The reason for that is two fold, one - in an attempt to fast track their development and find out who would make it and two - because they were better options than the older players they were replacing. TW could and can only work with the players he is given but given the state of the list when he arrived and then the players he was given afterwards, he has done all he can to build a platform for future success.

One thing I do blame TW for is our game plan. There is a reason we have the lowest tackle count in the league, struggle with the 1% and appear very individualistic. Terry's game plan revolves around winning the hard-ball and clearnaces and quick movement of the ball into the forwardline. What is fails to achieve his the offensive defense that the ball carrier needs, particularly now with the rolling zone, to create space to execute unpressured kicks and handballs. The reason we turn the ball over so much, have so many clangers, rush our desposals and look for shorter options is because we leave the ball carrier unprotected.

TW needs to encourage (which I believe he is starting to do more now) our players to shepherd, block and protect the ball carrier then they would have more time and space to look for longer options and deliver the ball more skillfully to their target. This is a problem for our team.

The other big factor in our lack of success is ourll 'culture' which is passed down from the leadership group to the younger players each year. Our leaders are leading the team but leading them in the wrong way and modelling to them the wrong attitude and style of play.

For all his skills and level headedness, Bowden is a blight on our side. He plays completely the opposite to which TW wants the team too - holds up the ball, waits until the opposition have settled, looks for the uncontested target then runs forward to recieve the ball again while the opposition set up comfortably further up the ground. Bowden is not a risk taker which is required essential in todays game and while he may rack up the uncontested possessions and recieve the handballs as he runs to assist the ball carrier, he will never try and break the lines, block, shepherd, tackle or do any of the 1%. He is a strong personality but he is a poor player and poor leader.

Richo is another individualistic player as is Brown and Simmonds. We need good leadership from players of the ilk of Hodge, Voss etc. I hope someone such as Cogs can regain form because he would be the type we need. If Riewoldt and Cotchin can step up soon they could also be just the type of leaders we need, I just hope they don't catch the Richmond 'culture-disease' before that time.

So while you might say what has TW done in his 5 years at the club and point to our win-loss ratio and form of the kids at the moment, the facts remain that TW has less to do with our current predictament than our leadership and past recruiters.

If we are lacking confidence and the leaders give the team no hope and don't support the coach's message then who's fault is that.

I still support TW but just wish he would change that game plan before it is too late.

Stripes

[TigerTime]

Stripes, you make some very good and valid points.

so what do we do from here, do we keep going as we are?

do we make a complet overhaul
  - new board
  - new footy dep
  - strip the list down as much as possible and start a new team so to speak

do we extend Terrys contract now for two more years?

what is frustrating is that i feel that no matter what the rfc do, we are damned if we do, we are damned if we dont!

i think the club has lost direction and its way again, how do we fix this, stuffed if i know

a start will be to beat north on the weekend

[Tigermonk]

Think you need to watch a replay of the Richmond vs Melbourne game Stripes
The problem is our players are not running hard enough & are giving the ball off to players standing idle or too close.
Opposition chases the player with the ball then runs round his opponant & tackles the reciever of the ball from the player he chased in the first place its so easy to read.
All other clubs dont have the problems we have in blooding new players or making excuses, just look at Collingwood, Hawthorn,  Carlton, Adelaide to name a few so stop making excuses about drafts & lists. Deledio won the B&F last year but is clearly not your gun player in the league & be lucky to make the top 50. The blame clearly lays with the coaching & fitness staff point blank.
Wallace dont know how to coach in today football & his been found out. He plays the same gameplan every week.
If he wanted to changed the style he would have but our players have been coached backwards.
Why stuff around with chip kicking making mistakes ??? why not kick the ball long & take them on further up the field in thier defensive 50. Put preasure on the oppostion & have them making mistakes. you never win a game with your main possessions in the backline like Richmonds game. They aint got a plan cause surely no0-one plans that type of trash football
Also many top AFL players do training outside of training hours while our players sell clothes & visit old friends cafes or change image with hair products & the most important spend hours talking to media We are Media Bogans & are doomed under the current coaches & the attitude of the playing group stinks. Top it off they gave the captaincy to the wrong bloke cause the captain game stinks the most lately.

[TigerTime]

tigermonk, who should be captain?

[Tigermonk]

Richo should be captain. There is nothing more intimidating than a huge fellow barking down orders to the troops.
Younger players look up to a huge character like Richo in a leading role who has played at top level all them years
They see how hard his work rate is & try to equal it. Then a new leader is born with the same attitude.
Yes Richo has some faults but his leadership is strong

[Stripes]

im just looking for hope, and be honest , if those answers are good enough for you after 4 plus years , thats fine. But it does not wash me me, those answers dont really give terry a pass mark, nor the players.
i just find it really frustrating that we have to start rebuilding all over again, and it pains me to say that the last 5 years have been a waste , i was so optimistic and ecstatic when terry came on board, but now i feel the same way i did when danny was in his last year .

is it wrong to search for anything that has been positive and a winner that terry has done, cos right now i cant think of many

So you want hope TigerTime. Here is some - stop believing in all the media and (so-called) experts opinions and hype stating how bad we are as a club and playing list. This is rubbish aimed at dragging the club into making a reactionary decision on the club to either sell more papers and flood talk-back radio or destable the club once again.

Four weeks (hard to believe it was only a month now) a go all the media and experts had all fighting for the 2009 flag and painting us in a positive light now the same people have done a backflip and are stating we are a basket case. Come on! Clubs, teams and coaches don't change like that overnight. The reality is is that we are somewhere in the middle, not a top 4 side but not a wooden spoon team also.

We have begun the season poorly. The media hype effected our young team adversely and we did not turn up to play. After all the hype it was a huge let down for everyone in the AFL world especially for us as supporters. This disappointment was then backed up by games against two very strong teams where we preformed poorly and all of a sudden the media backup story of TW demise kicked in. The Melbourne loss came directly on the back of our players believing all the hype and negative publicity and losing faith in the game plan, each other and themselves. This is when strong leadership was required.

The media set this up beautifuly building the club up over the preseason so we had such a long way to fall when we lost a few games.

The positives remains is that we have a very talented list to build a great team from. They need confidence, leadership and further development but they are still a good young list. Players such as Bling, Polo, Lids and most young players need encouragement and confidence to perform at their best and they need leaders around them on the field and off to boost them up. The talent and potential is there, they just need to regain their sense of invincibility and purpose.

Don't lose hope, success still remain just around the corner.....

Stripes