World Cup 2022 Bid [merged]

[mightytiges]

As I said so far the Govt spent $43 million for the bid alone with more funds (taxpayers $$$) available if needed.

What in the Sam Hill has this money been spent on. Does this bidding work like that for the Olympics, where you need to lavish gifts onto the delegates to win the bid?

Pretty much so al. You got to woo governing confederation bodies within FIFA just like the IOC and a successful bid is as much about politics and getting the numbers than simply the quality of the bid. For instance we are unlikely to gain the 2018 World Cup because Europe as a confederation won't want to wait 16 years to host the WC in 2022. They've never had to wait more than 8 years in the past so to them 12 years (2018) is already stretching it. You'll find we as part of the Asian confederation we will support a European bid in 2018 in the hope that Europe supports our bid in 2022 ahead of the USA.

[mightytiges]

The World Cup is the biggest sporting event in the world. Even bigger than the Olympics. We know Governments think short-term and like to follow the old adage of giving the people what they want. Sure the tourism, hospitality and construction industries will be the main beneficiaries but it's not every day you can guarantee thousands of visitors from 31 other countries to all rock up at once and spend (both meanings) a month in Australia. There's also the Confederations Cup beforehand so overall impact is longer than a month. The global advertisment of Australia for both tournaments to billions of people around the world will most likely continually attract more visitors for a period after the World Cup. Call it cynical WP but governments like happy voters. There's also a view that soccer is a useful tool to build closer and stronger business and trading relationships with Asia and Asian trading partners. Something in common to bridge differences and overcome old suspicions and stereotypes. Potentially bringing in more money to Australia. There are too many interests that want the World Cup for any Government to say no. The AFL and NRL know this hence their support for the bid despite their obvious concerns. Can the $$$ spent be guaranteed justifie to be recouped in the long-run? Who knows but I'm sure there'll be a Government report afterwards saying the overall economy has more the recouped the expense lol. As an alternative example to the GP, Tiger Woods fee for the Australian Masters was money well spent. Just in time too  . 

The issue for the AFL (and NRL) is how they will deal with a World Cup in Australia. As much as Demetriou is copping criticism for raising concerns he is right to do so. Listening to Craig Foster and the SBS soccer-only fraternity it is unbelievable how deluded they are. Claiming this arvo that it's all about soccer being dominant in 50 years time (you're dreaming Fos) and that FIFA, the FFA and the soccer community don't have to care what other sports say because none of the FIFA delegates would have heard of Aussie Rules so AFL complaints won't make a difference to the bid and it's all a Melbourne media beat-up (I told ya the SBS soccer crew hate Melbourne through shear jealously and it eats at them Aussie Rules is No.1 ). They don't care so much about AFL they spent 20 minutes of their show on the AFL's responses  .

The AFL competition cannot shut down for any longer than 2 weeks IMO as a lengthy break would compromise the season. We saw in 1990 how a 3 week break in the finals stuffed up Essendon's premiership chances and gave the flag to Collingwood. The AFL needs at least a 50k stadium to play its games during the WC. Etihad was meant to be that stadium until the FFA changed it mind about not needing it. Talk of playing at Princess Park or Kardinia Park is unrealistic simply in terms of numbers. Half of club members wouldn't be able to attend their own team's home games for 10 weeks. The reality is the AFL has a binding contract with Etihad and it's up to the FFA and the Government to satisfy the AFL whether FIFA wants to acknowledge the existence of other major football codes in Australia or stupidly not. Who should pay for new and upgraded stadia - not the AFL - and the AFL should demand these things as compensation. Use the World Cup for the benefit of AFL long-term in terms of new/upgraded infrastructure without the AFL paying a cent.

[Penelope]

An interesting article on the ABC;

The AFL harbours concerns of a second interrupted season and being booted out of its Melbourne headquarters by world governing body FIFA should Australia be successful in its World Cup bid.

The depth of the AFL's fears is laid out in correspondence from chief executive Andrew Demetriou to his opposite number at Football Federation Australia, Ben Buckley.

The letter, seen by the ABC, is dated November 24 and is the source of the rift between the organisations.

It was written two weeks before the issues erupted in public. When it hit the front pages, the AFL's angst was well known to Buckley.

Writes Demetriou:

"The AFL Commission wishes to place on record its extreme disappointment with the lack of accurate and consistent information from the FFA on the implications of the World Cup on the AFL competition and the AFL clubs.

"This lack of clear information and what appears to be indifference frankly, reluctance to help the AFL to ascertain the impact on our competition, is frustrating.

"In addition to questions regarding the MCG and Docklands that fuelled the public bickering last week, the AFL urgently sought clarification as to whether the Confederations Cup, held in the year preceding a World Cup, would force interruptions to the AFL season.

"We also understand that the Confederations Cup is played as a warm-up to the World Cup in the year prior to the World Cup.

"Therefore, the FFA cannot guarantee that the impact on the AFL competition, clubs and their supporters, will not be over two years instead of one as originally advised by the FFA."

At the conclusion of the three-page letter, the AFL posed nine questions to the FFA:

1. Is it a requirement of the World Cup that no AFL matches can be played in cities hosting World Cup matches for the duration of the World Cup in those cities?

2. Is the AFL competition going to be asked to shut down for 10 weeks to accommodate the World Cup? Given the location of our clubs in the five mainland capital cities, Geelong and from 2011 the Gold Coast, can you please advise what FIFA/FFA is demanding to stage the World Cup and what the precise impact will be on AFL venues in Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth, Sydney, Geelong, Canberra and the Gold Coast?

3. Has the FFA proposed, or planning to propose that the MCG be redeveloped at a cost of $130 million for the World Cup and be unavailable for AFL matches for 16 weeks in the year of the World Cup?

4. Is FIFA/FFA planning to take over the AFL offices for the duration of the World Cup and if so, for how many weeks?

5. Is FIFA/FFA planning to take over the offices and training facilities of AFL clubs so that they can be used by countries participating in the World Cup?

6. We have read media reports indicating that the FFA estimates that the economic impact of the World Cup in Australia would be some $5.4 billion. In your financial modelling of the World Cup in Australia, have you factored in the impact in the $3.4 billion Australian football contributes to the Australian economy each year if the AFL competition is forced to shut down for 10 weeks and is banned from using the MCG for 16 weeks?

7. Specifically, has the FFA/FIFA budgeted or are you planning to budget to compensate the AFL and its clubs for any loss of revenue for accommodating the World Cup?

8. Is it the intention of FIFA and or the FFA to ask the Federal Government to legislate so that FIFA/FFA can take over venues for the World Cup, the AFL offices and the training and administration bases of AFL clubs so that they can be used by teams competing in the World Cup and to prevent other major sporting competitions playing matches during the period of the World Cup?

9. Will the Confederations Cup be played in Australia the year before the World Cup if Australia's bid is successful and if so, what will the impact on the AFL competition including what current AFL venues would FIFA/FFA take over for the duration of the Confederations Cup?

Confirming the authenticity of the letter, an AFL spokesman told the ABC:

"We did receive a letter from the FFA responding to Andrew's letter. It didn't contain either the detailed information on the impact that a World Cup would have on our season, or the clarification that we were seeking over the use of Etihad Stadium that we were initially told in November 2008 that would remain with the AFL.

"We are still waiting to be informed on how we can run a season concurrently with a World Cup."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/12/14/2770679.htm?site=sport&section=football

[mightytiges]

If you want to read the deluded rantings of Craig Foster here's the link from the Sydney Morning Herald

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/football/other-codes-need-to-get-real-20091212-kpik.html

For delusion at its best this next bit is as classic 

"In Australia, the world game is a rising tide that will ultimately engulf all before it, and the World Cup is a quadrennial turbine that drives tremendous energy and passion for football on a regular cycle. To use the terminology of the times, it's a ''clean'' energy consistent with our 21st-century considerations, largely free of the massive cultural and behavioural baggage of other sports. It's the perfect game at the perfect time for a country seeking to present a fresh, dynamic face to the world."

I like soccer and played it as a kid but if there's one sport that has cultural baggage and a massive chip on its shoulder in Australia it is soccer. The cultural baggage was the reason the A-league clubs were deliberately made non-ethnic although it is still run in a very Sydney-centric way. Craig Foster is soccer's equivalent of those Aussie rules fans who call soccer "wogball". Fine if you don't like a sport but I've never understood the sheer hatred from one code towards another  ???. Replace AFL with NFL in America and Fos would be rightly laughed at as he should be now. Using the popularity of soccer overseas to mock Aussie Rules is nonsensical as we are talking about a World Cup in Australia and in Australia Aussie Rules is kingpin and will always be. Australia doesn't need approval of those overseas to somehow validate our homegrown football codes. It's idiots like Foster who are damaging the bid because ridiculous comments like above only alienate the number of soccer followers who love both codes. Foster doesn't understand nor wants to understand Melbourne sporting culture and is jealous of it.

[mightytiges]

An interesting article on the ABC;

The AFL harbours concerns of a second interrupted season and being booted out of its Melbourne headquarters by world governing body FIFA should Australia be successful in its World Cup bid.

The depth of the AFL's fears is laid out in correspondence from chief executive Andrew Demetriou to his opposite number at Football Federation Australia, Ben Buckley.

The letter, seen by the ABC, is dated November 24 and is the source of the rift between the organisations.

It was written two weeks before the issues erupted in public. When it hit the front pages, the AFL's angst was well known to Buckley.

Writes Demetriou:

"The AFL Commission wishes to place on record its extreme disappointment with the lack of accurate and consistent information from the FFA on the implications of the World Cup on the AFL competition and the AFL clubs.

"This lack of clear information and what appears to be indifference frankly, reluctance to help the AFL to ascertain the impact on our competition, is frustrating.

"In addition to questions regarding the MCG and Docklands that fuelled the public bickering last week, the AFL urgently sought clarification as to whether the Confederations Cup, held in the year preceding a World Cup, would force interruptions to the AFL season.

"We also understand that the Confederations Cup is played as a warm-up to the World Cup in the year prior to the World Cup.

"Therefore, the FFA cannot guarantee that the impact on the AFL competition, clubs and their supporters, will not be over two years instead of one as originally advised by the FFA."

Thanks for posting this al. Seems the FFA are being very uncooperative.

At the conclusion of the three-page letter, the AFL posed nine questions to the FFA:

1. Is it a requirement of the World Cup that no AFL matches can be played in cities hosting World Cup matches for the duration of the World Cup in those cities?

There should be as MLB was still allowed to go on during the World Cup in the US in '94.

2. Is the AFL competition going to be asked to shut down for 10 weeks to accommodate the World Cup? Given the location of our clubs in the five mainland capital cities, Geelong and from 2011 the Gold Coast, can you please advise what FIFA/FFA is demanding to stage the World Cup and what the precise impact will be on AFL venues in Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, Perth, Sydney, Geelong, Canberra and the Gold Coast?

Given point 1. the AFL shouldn't need to shutdown at all although I heard the AFL will take a 2 week break during the WC semi-finals and final.

All 12 stadia should be only needed for the 4-week lead in and the group stages. The biggest stadium in each of the major capital cities would be the ones to be continued to be used during the knockout stage.

Sydney have ANZ and SFS while the AFL can still use the SCG.
Melbourne has the MCG while the AFL uses Etihad.
Brisbane has Suncorp while the AFL uses the 'Gabba as usual.
Adelaide will have the Oval while the AFL can use Footy Park.
Gold Coast has its rectangular stadium while the AFL will use the upgraded Carrara.

The main sticking point is the AFL needs Etihad or a equivalent stadium in Melbourne to stay running. Will the AFL get a new stadium for free as a result?

3. Has the FFA proposed, or planning to propose that the MCG be redeveloped at a cost of $130 million for the World Cup and be unavailable for AFL matches for 16 weeks in the year of the World Cup?

It doesn't sound like this will go ahead. If they were going to spend $130m on the MCG then they'd be better off spending $150m on expanding the new rectangular solving the stadium impass and everyone would be satisfied again.

4. Is FIFA/FFA planning to take over the AFL offices for the duration of the World Cup and if so, for how many weeks?

That's just bizarre.

5. Is FIFA/FFA planning to take over the offices and training facilities of AFL clubs so that they can be used by countries participating in the World Cup?

I've read each team needs a training ground within 20kms of the city's stadium they will be playing in.

6. We have read media reports indicating that the FFA estimates that the economic impact of the World Cup in Australia would be some $5.4 billion. In your financial modelling of the World Cup in Australia, have you factored in the impact in the $3.4 billion Australian football contributes to the Australian economy each year if the AFL competition is forced to shut down for 10 weeks and is banned from using the MCG for 16 weeks?

Should be a moot point as the AFL shouldn't need to shutdown.

7. Specifically, has the FFA/FIFA budgeted or are you planning to budget to compensate the AFL and its clubs for any loss of revenue for accommodating the World Cup?

I would take a guess it would depend on what the AFL gets out of it. If they get a 3rd stadium in Melbourne or kee[p hold onto Eithad plus further upgrades to all other major stadia then that'd be accepted as compensation.

8. Is it the intention of FIFA and or the FFA to ask the Federal Government to legislate so that FIFA/FFA can take over venues for the World Cup, the AFL offices and the training and administration bases of AFL clubs so that they can be used by teams competing in the World Cup and to prevent other major sporting competitions playing matches during the period of the World Cup?

There would be an uproar if legislation was required. Political suicide by the Government if they went down that track.

9. Will the Confederations Cup be played in Australia the year before the World Cup if Australia's bid is successful and if so, what will the impact on the AFL competition including what current AFL venues would FIFA/FFA take over for the duration of the Confederations Cup?

The Confederations Cup is held in June for 2 weeks. Not a major hold-up of Aussie rules with only half the stadia of the WC required.

This can be easily solved but the FFA need to come to the party and compromise.

[Penelope]

In Australia, the world game is a rising tide that will ultimately engulf all before it

A sport that has nil all draws 

largely free of the massive cultural and behavioural baggage of other sports

Geez, that would have to be one of the most ridiculous, delusional, blantantly wrong comments i have ever heard, and i have read some of the coliingwood and carlton boards on big footy when i have been bored.

Craig foster you are an idiot and after reading that anything else you say can only be disregarded as the ramblings of  a delusional fool. Unbelievable.
 

[Francois Jackson]

In Australia, the world game is a rising tide that will ultimately engulf all before it

A sport that has nil all draws 

largely free of the massive cultural and behavioural baggage of other sports

Geez, that would have to be one of the most ridiculous, delusional, blantantly wrong comments i have ever heard, and i have read some of the coliingwood and carlton boards on big footy when i have been bored.

Craig foster you are an idiot and after reading that anything else you say can only be disregarded as the ramblings of  a delusional fool. Unbelievable.
 

al whilst i cant stand the A league and have never been to a game to say a Nil all draw in a world game is boring shows your intelligence.

If it was such a bore why is the worlds most powerful sport.

[Penelope]

In Australia, the world game is a rising tide that will ultimately engulf all before it

A sport that has nil all draws 

largely free of the massive cultural and behavioural baggage of other sports

Geez, that would have to be one of the most ridiculous, delusional, blantantly wrong comments i have ever heard, and i have read some of the coliingwood and carlton boards on big footy when i have been bored.

Craig foster you are an idiot and after reading that anything else you say can only be disregarded as the ramblings of  a delusional fool. Unbelievable.
 

al whilst i cant stand the A league and have never been to a game to say a Nil all draw in a world game is boring shows your intelligence.

If it was such a bore why is the worlds most powerful sport.

Now, now daniel, im not too sure if that is a very accurate measurement of ones intelligence, probably more so ones attention span.

Um what were we talking about? oh yeah soccer.
Im not sure how you measure the most powerfull sport but it is undeniable that soccer is the worlds most popular sport. Why is this? well id guess many reasons. First and foremost it is a fun game to play, but that is different to watching.

If you look through the regions of the world and their most popular sports you see generally there is a trend towards sports popular with the colonial invaders. There are course exceptions such as the USA, who fought and won a war of independance so would have rejected all things brittish. Id feel pretty safe to assume that soccer was introduced to south america by the spanish in the same way that cricket was introduced to the subcontinent by the poms.

The one advantage soccer has is that all you need to play it is a ball and some goal markers. it can be played on nearly any surface even hard surfaces. combine that with for many countries it was the only sport intoduced by colonial rulers and you can understand why it is played all over the world particularly in poorer countries.
 
Remove the tribal element out of watching soccer, ie watching a game between two sides you have no affiliation with there is not too much to get excited in a nil all draw. Sure i can watch highlights and appreciate the skill shown unfortunately i must just be too dumb to find a nil all draw not much of a spectator sport in the vast majority of cases.

The administrators of hockey, which has a lot of parallels with soccer, removed the offside rule to increase the number of goals scored in an attempt to improve it as a spectator sport. They realised that there are a vast number of us low intelligence people who find scoreless contests boring in the main.

[the_boy_jake]

Its kind of entertaining seeing the schoolyard bully that is the AFL being pushed around for a change.

[Ramps]

The national competition averaged 5000 per game in crowds last week. Thats worse than the NSL. No country deserves a world cup if its only getting 5000 people to a game in their domestic league.

[mightytiges]

The national competition averaged 5000 per game in crowds last week. Thats worse than the NSL. No country deserves a world cup if its only getting 5000 people to a game in their domestic league.

LOL at Ramps posting this in every thread in a one-man attempt to bring back the old NSL

FIFA officials as part of viewing Australia's bid came down and watched the Victory play a couple of weeks ago against the Gold Coast at Etihad and were impressed  .

[mightytiges]

Actually the Poms and Irish spread soccer around the world via their trade travels as the world and naval power at the time soccer was codified. AC Milan was started by ex-pat Poms. The Spanish club Athletic Bilbao kept the English spelling instead of switching to Atletico. River Plate of Argentina is another club spelt in pseudo-English rather than Spanish because the club founders saw sailors playing soccer on the docks in Buenos Aires.

Its kind of entertaining seeing the schoolyard bully that is the AFL being pushed around for a change.

There's a lot of grandstanding at the moment. Everyone trying to position themselves to gain from the World Cup coming here and gain an advantage over the other codes.

There was a good article in the Age the other day making fun of whole situation. Pretty funny.
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/stadium-shuffle-a-game-the-big-boys-play-20091211-koox.html

[Penelope]

Actually the Poms and Irish spread soccer around the world via their trade travels as the world and naval power at the time soccer was codified. AC Milan was started by ex-pat Poms. The Spanish club Athletic Bilbao kept the English spelling instead of switching to Atletico. River Plate of Argentina is another club spelt in pseudo-English rather than Spanish because the club founders saw sailors playing soccer on the docks in Buenos Aires.

Its kind of entertaining seeing the schoolyard bully that is the AFL being pushed around for a change.

There's a lot of grandstanding at the moment. Everyone trying to position themselves to gain from the World Cup coming here and gain an advantage over the other codes.

There was a good article in the Age the other day making fun of whole situation. Pretty funny.
http://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/stadium-shuffle-a-game-the-big-boys-play-20091211-koox.html

Is it still accepted/believed that the game originated in China and do you know it spread from there MT?

[cub]

Attracts the biggest bogans in the world of sport also ......

FOUR people were injured and hotel windows were broken when a fight broke out between rival soccer fans last night.

A group of Sydney FC supporters was allegedly attacked by Melbourne Victory rivals at the Duke of Kent Hotel in Lonsdale St before the game at Etihad Stadium.

Police said the fight broke out about 6.10pm, when a passing group allegedly threw computer equipment through the window of the pub.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/soccer-fans-brawl/story-e6frf7jo-1225812070077

And don't give me that isolated incident happens in all sports krappe either, all of you know well and good the bogans the game attracts all over the world at all levels - Sad excuses for humans a fair percentage of them ....

[Judge Roughneck]

Bogans? 

I thought it was the wogs taking over?

Can't have it both ways morons.

Get your sterotypes stright before you start talking rubbish, you have no idea about.

Association football fans fighting each other is less no good eh.
 - Real fans punch Collingwood midfeilders in the back of the head @ Lakes Entrance,
 - or Melbourne players father,
 - or Port fans at grand finals eh?