Our KPD's are overated

[Ramps]

IMHO our KPD's are overated and Im guilty as well of overating them.

Moore at 25/26 yo has been injured this year and goes ok but he will be 30 when we are a chance of being any good. Do we offer him up?

Thursfield a decent stopper most  of the time but I think we need to try and upgrade if we can.

Rance is a outstanding in most aspects but geez he cant kick for poo. Hes a keeper but someone has to work with him this summer. If the only thing he works on this summer is his kicking then that wont be a bad thing at all.

McGuane is the only one showing continual improvement. Going very well indeed.

The upshot of this is we need to go with plenty of picks this year. We need to try and trade out what we can. We need some KP forwards, we need some class in midfield, and unfortunately we need to look at the KPDs again. Just my opinion.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Ramps you are on the money.
For me the only two keepers 100% are McGuane and Rance.
Moore and Thursfield should be touted as trade bait. Put them up and see what is being offered. I am sure one might fetch something.

[Infamy]

I think Moore's work is massively underrated by many.
Every time he's gone down with injury in a game this year our defence has been completely run over

[TigerLand]

Horrible discussion.

McGuane will be top 5 in B&f

Moore was excellent last year, best defender in the league against Franklin.

Thursfield would be rated better than a Harry Taylor who in a team with a lower percentage of inside D50 looks a lot better than what he is.

Too harsh.

[Danog]

I'd be offering up Moore.

[TigerTime]

half of fevs goals were flukes, our defence isnt our problem

we had equal scoring shots and should jave won the game but we are tanking

[yellowandback]

I think you are being a bit hysterical Ramps.
We are missing someone who can play on the "gorillas".

A Matt McGuire - if fit - would fit the bill nicely.

A backline with Thursfield at FB (classical spoiling defender). McGuane - key position defender the equal of any in the comp at 22yo,  Moore who IMO is more a rebounding defender than KPD, Rance - who should be a Mackie type and Newman would be perfectly complemented by a big defender.

I don't see it as an overly big backline or lacking run because McGuane, Rance and Moore can all run and carry.

Its a good defence, just lacking a bit of of structure.

Ramps, it is easy to bag a team that is tanking with an interim coach. Use your imagination with our list, delete the rubbish and think what upside we have with players who are 23yo and under.  With the right development, almost all of them should significantly improve in 2010 and beyond.

[Ramps]

I think you are being a bit hysterical Ramps.
We are missing someone who can play on the "gorillas".

A Matt McGuire - if fit - would fit the bill nicely.

A backline with Thursfield at FB (classical spoiling defender). McGuane - key position defender the equal of any in the comp at 22yo,  Moore who IMO is more a rebounding defender than KPD, Rance - who should be a Mackie type and Newman would be perfectly complemented by a big defender.

I don't see it as an overly big backline or lacking run because McGuane, Rance and Moore can all run and carry.

Its a good defence, just lacking a bit of of structure.

Ramps, it is easy to bag a team that is tanking with an interim coach. Use your imagination with our list, delete the rubbish and think what upside we have with players who are 23yo and under.  With the right development, almost all of them should significantly improve in 2010 and beyond.

I just gave an opinion that is all. People can agree or they can disagree. Thats what forums are about.

[yellowandback]

I know that. Which is why I disagreed!
To me, people get stuck in the moment too often when judging a clubs performance. An extreme example is the Hawk fans after the flag last year.  That was a steal (and a brilliant one too) but they just got carried away in the lead up to '09.
So to are people getting carried away with the Tigers (in the opposite direction).
There is no certainty in how we will perform next year but the one thing I will say is that it is a hell of a lot better than the list in 2004.

What would you have posted back then?

Like I said, just a little hysterical.

[Ramps]

I know that. Which is why I disagreed!
To me, people get stuck in the moment too often when judging a clubs performance. An extreme example is the Hawk fans after the flag last year.  That was a steal (and a brilliant one too) but they just got carried away in the lead up to '09.
So to are people getting carried away with the Tigers (in the opposite direction).
There is no certainty in how we will perform next year but the one thing I will say is that it is a hell of a lot better than the list in 2004.

What would you have posted back then?

Like I said, just a little hysterical.

Back in 2003, 2004 etc I use to post that we would finish on the bottom. I was posting on another site then, I remember I got banned from that site because I had predicted that we would finish stone motherless last. The ferals were unhappy about my postings but sadly I was proven correct. Anyway what is so hysterical about what I posted here:

Moore is in his mid 20s, by the time we are any good he will be 30.
Rance is a good kid, but he turns over the footy by foot- ALOT
Thursfield is 190cm, plays predominantly as a stopping full back - I think we need an upgrade
McGuane is the only one at this stage that gives me any confidence at all of the 4.

Theres nothing hysterical at all. Just trying to give a fair and rational opinion. Not one based on emotion and overating of our players which is what most of our supporters do with our players.

[RollsRoyce]

The way I see it, the problem with our 3 key defenders in Thursfield, Moore and McGuane is that they're all around the same height and weight (190-191cm - 84-86kg), which is a bit too short and lightweight for a key defender. Ideally a CHB and FB should be a minimum of around 195cm-94kg, which leaves those 3 more ideally suited to the opposition's 3rd tall forward. So while it may be valuable to keep two or possibly all three on our list for backup due to injury,we cannot afford to play more than one in the same side.Choosing who is the most tradeable though is difficult, as their respective form has fluctuated considerably. Will was very versatile in his early years, being able to play on the likes of Riewoldt, O'Loughlin, and Milne. But his form has been up and down since his knee reco. Ditto Moore who had a great season last year stopping the likes of Buddy, Fev, and Brown,has struggled with a shoulder this year and his form has suffered. A key flaw with all of them is that none are very penetrating kicks either.   

[Infamy]

Pidgeon holing playing based on a difference in height of 1-2 cm from the ideal is pretty silly
Its about |----|----| that much difference

It's more about how tall a player plays, like McGuane who is very good on taller opposition such as resting ruckmen.

How did Leo Barry ever make it as a premiership full back at only 184cm?

[torch]

Rance is 193cm and i think should be played at CHB while Moore is out injuried.

agree with you Ramps about Rance's disposal, he has a lot of trouble hitting targets by hand and foot.

however he is playing his first year of AFL. we have time to develop him if Richmond have any development.

i like McGuane, Moore, i see your point with Moore, but i think he can play. he has been injuried which has be obvious. he is in his mid 20's but i think he

is a keeper.

Thursfield is ok as a stopper. just needs muscle. however on this website, some people have said 'Sydney' are looking for a defender. but i would keep all

four.

remember boys, three of them are under 23, thats our future.

[RollsRoyce]

Pidgeon holing playing based on a difference in height of 1-2 cm from the ideal is pretty silly
Its about |----|----| that much difference

Yes, but the players I mentioned are more than just 1-2 cm's from the ideal. They are more like 4-5 cm's too short for the positions they're playing. When you add the fact that they're also about 10kg lighter than a lot of their opponents, they are fighting a long way out of their division in boxing parlance. 

[Chuck17]

A key flaw with all of them is that none are very penetrating kicks either.   

Just interested in opinions, is Sylvestor a more penetrating kick than the three KPD's mentioned?

In regards to the thread topic of whether the three KPD's are over rated well none of them are high draft picks so in a way to have all three establish themselves in our top side means they have over performed expectations from their drafting, I tend to think they were under rated previously.  Will those three be sufficient if we are ever truly competitive?, personally I think not but while our KPF's are in a hole and probably being one quality mid short still I am not too sure where we will find the draft pick to obtain a quality KPD.