Author Topic: State of Umpiring [merged]  (Read 272540 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2355 on: September 05, 2022, 04:55:30 PM »
Clearly not a behind. If the left/mid cameras are in sync, its a goal. If mid/right and left/right are in sync, its a behind.


https://twitter.com/Satoshisbits/status/1565850976082612224

Offline MintOnLamb

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2356 on: September 05, 2022, 07:32:59 PM »
Amazingly 7 of Brisbanes goals were from free kicks including 2 x 50 metre penalties

Offline one-eyed

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Offline one-eyed

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2358 on: September 06, 2022, 12:53:27 AM »
"I honestly believe Richmond supporters deserve an explanation why that was deemed a point."

Caroline Wilson on the Tom Lynch goal review controversy, as she says the AFL is set to make a change to its goal review process.

Watch here: https://twitter.com/FootyonNine/status/1566759971261485060


Hutchy believes and Caro said she's spoken to someone closely involved that said the AFL has extra vision that shows the ARC decision was right but they won't show it to the public. Lloyd responded by questioning why they wouldn't show it if they have it.


Online Knighter

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2359 on: September 06, 2022, 04:43:57 AM »
There is no other vision. They are stuffen liars

Online wayne

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2360 on: September 06, 2022, 06:57:38 AM »

Hutchy believes and Caro said she's spoken to someone closely involved that said the AFL has extra vision that shows the ARC decision was right but they won't show it to the public. Lloyd responded by questioning why they wouldn't show it if they have it.

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Offline one-eyed

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2361 on: September 06, 2022, 03:29:11 PM »
‘Bet on your kids’ lives’: Tigers probe controversial score review as details of new vision revealed

Ben Cotton
Fox Sports
September 6th, 2022


Richmond coach Damien Hardwick has revealed the AFL is set to take the club through the controversial video system review call that cost the Tigers in their elimination final loss to Brisbane amid speculation there was undisclosed vision used.

Tom Lynch had a chance to seal the win for Richmond with a shot in the dying minutes that sailed over the goalpost and was initially called a goal before getting overturned despite the video replay appearing to show inconclusive evidence — a decision eventually ticked off by the league.

Hardwick slammed the ARC following the game, saying the technology “wasn’t good enough,” and if it couldn’t be improved, called for the score review be scrapped altogether.

Speaking on Fox Footy’s AFL 360, the Tigers boss confirmed the club is investigating whether there’s another camera angle the ARC used, and that if so, thinks fans are entitled to see it.

“We thought we owed it upon ourselves, fans and players to go through the process. (AFL footy operations boss) Brad (Scott) and the AFL have offered to step us through the process at some stage,” Hardwick said.

“I thought there was a precedent set that if there wasn’t adequate vision to assess the situation, it went back to the umpire’s call. That was the thing that alarmed me at that stage.”

Hardwick says his definition of definitive decision is “bet on your kids’ lives it’s a goal or a point”.

“People talk about Tom’s reaction — Tom was blinded by the lights ... there’s not enough vision to make definitive decision that’s right. We’ve either got to get the technology to the level it needs to be, or we let the man under the under the post make the decision,” he said.

“It cost people jobs, it cost our club millions of millions of dollars … if we were good enough we should’ve won anyway, but imagine if a grand final was defined by that moment right there.”

AFL 360 co-host Gerard Whateley highlighted there’s now an “extreme example” of the effectiveness of the score review given it’s “defined” a team’s season.

Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin also weighed in on the matter, saying he was “shocked” by how the events played out on Thursday night.

And he backed Hardwick’s call to either improve the technology or remove the score review completely.

“We’ve all sat through these enough to know when it gets to a decision if it’s not definitive, it goes back to umpire’s call,” he said.

“We’ve got to get the technology to a standard where we’re not in this situation, or we stick to process, or we get rid of it altogether, that’s where we’re at with it.”

Channel 9’s Footy Classified host Craig Hutchison revealed the AFL had extra vision of Lynch’s shot that hasn’t be shown, calling for the league to “show us everything you see.”

Veteran journalist Caroline Wilson says she was also told there’s undisclosed vision and that it indicates it was a point, but believes Richmond supporters deserve an explanation on how it reached the outcome.

Wilson also hit out at the league for how it handled the matter, and believes there’ll be changes made to the process in future as the league also explores introducing extra field umpires.

“All the AFL could say to me when I’ve spoken to them is that it was a point and that he should’ve kicked it better,” she said.

“No one has explained how they overruled the goal umpire ... my understanding is probably there’ll be no onus on the goal umpire in future to make a call. The umpire will just say, ‘I don’t know what it was, we’re having a review.’

“(The league is adding) Four field umpires, they’re working towards six at some point and no boundary umpires — I think it’s going to be a different world.

“I thought there was a smugness about the AFL. They had a brilliant weekend, but that was messy and any excuse to have a crack at Damien Hardwick ... any excuse to pick on Richmond.

“You just feel it dates back before the hub, but they didn’t like Richmond’s behaviour in 2020, and they’re still banging on about it.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/richmond-tigers/afl-news-2022-richmond-tigers-goal-review-tom-lynch-shot-arc-damien-hardwick-reaction-video-elimination-final-loss-to-brisbane-lions/news-story/20f16fc08dd3ca7f6d020b576ab5acef

Online Andyy

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2362 on: September 06, 2022, 08:38:04 PM »
It stinks, as does the non-50, but in terms of what the actual players can control we still really crapped the bed.

Those two kicked I50 late, think it was Baker and MRJ? Lynch should have nailed the goal. Someone should have spoiled the Daniher goal.

We made our bed, ARC or not, and given how we played honestly it's probably for the best that we get pick 12 instead of taking a win and dropping down the draft as we were clearly never going to get near the flag with this leaky defence.

Offline one-eyed

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Kane Cornes calls out Hardwick & RFC over goal umpire complaints (SEN)
« Reply #2363 on: September 09, 2022, 09:05:08 AM »
KANE CORNES CALLS OUT HARDWICK AND RICHMOND OVER GOAL UMPIRE COMPLAINTS

By Nic Negrepontis
SEN
8 September 2022


Kane Cornes has slammed Richmond and coach Damien Hardwick for continuing to question the controversial ARC decision in their Elimination Final loss to Brisbane.

The ARC determined there was sufficient evidence to clearly overturn Tom Lynch’s goal late in the game, with Hardwick stating on Tuesday they were still seeking clarification on the call.

Cornes says the Tigers have a history of making excuses and complaining and that this is just the latest example.

“What you’re hearing from the AFL is that they can’t believe the carry-on from Richmond over this and in particular Damien Hardwick as well,” he told SEN’s Whateley.

“The complaints that have come from Richmond over a long period of time is now getting to the point where you are just a flat-out whinger.

“If you look at some of the things he has complained about – they’ve complained about Sydney’s defensive tactics in a 2020 game … complained about dew on the ground, complained about Marvel Stadium, he complained about a VFL player this year and admitted to overstepping the mark, complained about the close contact rule with Sydney Stack during the pandemic, complained about a late umpiring call in the Round 11 game versus Sydney this year and have complained for a week about a goal review.

“The goal review which was the wrong process, but was probably the right call. He probably missed and Tom Lynch’s reaction was reflective of that.”

Cornes speculates that Brendon Gale has been marked down in the race to be the next AFL CEO because of the club’s reputation for complaining.

“Perhaps this is why Brendon Gale isn’t the automatic replacement for Gillon McLachlan as CEO because he hasn’t been able to control Damien Hardwick,” the former Port Adelaide midfielder said.

“This guy has done everything, he’s perfect to take over from Gil, why isn’t he just the automatic CEO of the AFL, well perhaps because he can’t control Hardwick and his constant complaining and petulance really.

“Not a great reflection on Damien and Brendon Gale when you look at the fact that one other tactic could have won them the game – just put someone on Lachie Neale. Give him some respect.

“Maybe one of the five defenders in the goal square, just spoil the ball over the line. Don’t concede 16 goals in a final. I think there’s other areas they should be focusing on, not a goal review.

“It’s now publicly become a big story and the AFL are a bit bemused as to why the carry-on has gone on so long. Of course you’re aggrieved and he spoke about it in his post-match press conference and that was the platform to do that.

“You get the footy manager to get a clarification email from the AFL on Monday, but to still be wanting a detailed explanation a week on when there’s so many areas in that game that cost them, and perhaps Lynch didn’t actually kick the goal, it comes across as petulant.

“It’s a build-up of events over time and I don’t think it’s a good reflection of the football club.”

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/08/kane-cornes-calls-out-hardwick-and-richmond-over-goal-umpire-complaints/

Offline mightytiges

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2364 on: September 09, 2022, 10:28:36 PM »
So it's "insufficient evidence" this week ::).

The reviewing ump didn't use the Edge (was it working?) to see if the ball hit the post so just went with umpire's call.

AFL making it up as they go :banghead.
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Online Chuck17

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2365 on: September 09, 2022, 10:32:37 PM »
Yep just like that Sydney game where we heard that judgement call or whatever it is

Making it up as they go as long as it’s against Richmond

Offline Tiger Khosh

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2366 on: September 09, 2022, 10:46:44 PM »
Did they just say that to trigger Richmond fans lol.

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2367 on: September 09, 2022, 10:51:38 PM »
Yep just like that Sydney game where we heard that judgement call or whatever it is

Making it up as they go as long as it’s against Richmond

They called it common sense Chuck

And as we know common sense is not common at HQ
« Last Edit: September 10, 2022, 09:18:04 AM by WilliamPowell »
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: State of Umpiring [merged]
« Reply #2368 on: September 12, 2022, 09:37:56 PM »
Richmond coach Damien Hardwick had a personal tour of the AFL’s ARC system on Monday as the league considers a major tweak to its goal review protocols next year.

https://twitter.com/sirgood4nothing/status/1569285933220134912


Offline one-eyed

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AFL may scrap goal umpire's "soft-call" to avoid repeat of Lynch drama (Fox)
« Reply #2369 on: September 12, 2022, 09:39:50 PM »
AFL weighs up scrapping key part of score review to avoid repeat of Tigers elimination final drama

Max Laughton
Fox Sports
September 12th, 2022 8:24 pm


The AFL will consider scrapping the “soft call” as part of the score review system, which could avoid a repeat of the Tom Lynch elimination final drama.

The Herald Sun’s Jon Ralph reports the league is weighing up a change which would mean the goal umpire is not forced to make a call before referring the incident to the AFL Review Centre (ARC).

It would mean the ARC operator could study the footage and make a call using the extra evidence provided, rather than needing to overturn an existing decision. It would also remove circumstances where the operator reverts to ‘umpire’s call’ because of a lack of clear evidence.

It comes after the league invited Richmond coach Damien Hardwick into the ARC to examine the processes involved in the Lynch behind.

Lynch’s kick late in the elimination final loss to Brisbane was originally called a goal by the umpire on the scene, but the ARC determined there was sufficient evidence to overturn it into a behind, believing the ball had crossed over the top of the goalpost.

“Two and a half weeks after the Tom Lynch goal that wasn’t a goal, he’s (Hardwick) been brought in by the AFL for really constructive discussions,” Jon Ralph explained on Fox Footy’s On the Couch.

“He had a personal tour of the ARC with Tim Livingstone (Richmond GM of football performance), he had it explained to him by not only Brad Scott (AFL GM of football) but also Andrew Dillon (AFL GM of football operations). And I believe there’s a significant tweak to the goal review system the AFL is considering.

“What we have now is the goal umpire is forced to make a decision, the soft call, goal or behind - even if, in this case, they have no idea.

“So I think what they could do next year, is if they are totally confused, you refer it without that soft call which means the people in the ARC make a decision on balance of probabilities.

“The AFL’s view is because this was called a goal and then overturned, there was all this hysteria when I think we saw that vision from the crowd after and said it was probably a behind.”

He added: “There’ll be some trial of the ball-tracking system. It might cost money but if it costs millions, and we got a definitive call, I think you’d be on board.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-finals-2022-score-review-change-get-rid-of-soft-call-rule-changes-arc-tom-lynch-behind-damien-hardwick-richmond/news-story/d16da7466c29b4f5af422da0f3a61dc4