Lids - break out year or second year blues?

[bluey_21]

Break-out year. Wallace's usage of Lids in the foward line against Bumbers didn't do Lids any justice IMO

[DallasCrane]

Break-out year. Wallace's usage of Lids in the foward line against Bumbers didn't do Lids any justice IMO

How good is he on the lead though?

He actually leads straight!

[mightytiges]

I don't know why Sam picked out Lids' short kick with only a minute to go in the game as an example of what's wrong with modern footy. I agree modern players choose dumb options when the KISS direct principle should apply but that wasn't one of them IMO.

Sure there was a 1-on-1 in the square but it would've taken a 60m kick to get there and by the time it would reached them, the Essendon flood in front of them would have pushed back to create a big pack and spoil. And then we would have been left wide open for the Bombers to easily rebound up to the other end and score. In the end that's what we did to them when JON got the footy in space.

The right option for Lids was to go short and maintain possession with only a minute to go and try to find someone free inside 50 for a shot as we only needed a point to win. The only thing Lids did wrong was he held onto the footy too long which telegraphed where the kick was going. That's why Hird picked it off. Right idea; wrong execution.

[tiga]

If you look at the stats for last weeks game without seeing it, you would think Lids...second year blues, maybe. But there is a whole lot more that you have to take into account especially how a coach decides what sort of involvement he wants from his player in a particular game. Lids being pushed to the forward pocket by TW last week allowed him to be freed of a tag taking pressure off his still maturing football mind & body.

Wallace is a very patient man and whilst the temptation may be there to have Lids in the midfield week in week out gathering 20+ possessions whilst being tagged to buggery, what would this do to his overall confidence & career in the long term? You have commentators like Robert Wallls continually saying last week, why don't they push Deledio back into the midfield as he is wasted where he is in the pocket. Well Robert, TW is not only looking at how Deledio contributes for the RFC in one game, he is looking at the whole season and future seasons to come.

There are many things that go into a 5 year plan and pacing players and preventing early burnout of potential superstars is a key part of this.

[Mopsy]

As I stated on another thread (there is a bit of brains around the place) 

[mightytiges]

If you look at the stats for last weeks game without seeing it, you would think Lids...second year blues, maybe. But there is a whole lot more that you have to take into account especially how a coach decides what sort of involvement he wants from his player in a particular game. Lids being pushed to the forward pocket by TW last week allowed him to be freed of a tag taking pressure off his still maturing football mind & body.

Wallace is a very patient man and whilst the temptation may be there to have Lids in the midfield week in week out gathering 20+ possessions whilst being tagged to buggery, what would this do to his overall confidence & career in the long term? You have commentators like Robert Wallls continually saying last week, why don't they push Deledio back into the midfield as he is wasted where he is in the pocket. Well Robert, TW is not only looking at how Deledio contributes for the RFC in one game, he is looking at the whole season and future seasons to come.

There are many things that go into a 5 year plan and pacing players and preventing early burnout of potential superstars is a key part of this.

Well said tiga  . We all know what Walls was like as coach so Terry stick to your way.

[Mopsy]

I have worn out the mute button on two remote controls through Walls and his stupid comments

[julzqld]

Yes I can't stand his "superior than thou" attitude.     What a crack up it was hearing him, more than once, refer to Tivendale as Chris Tivendale.  I refuse to watch "On the Couch" because I can't stand him, Mike Sheahan and Gerard Healy.

[Tiger Spirit]

I don't know why Sam picked out Lids' short kick with only a minute to go in the game as an example of what's wrong with modern footy. I agree modern players choose dumb options when the KISS direct principle should apply but that wasn't one of them IMO.
 
Sure there was a 1-on-1 in the square but it would've taken a 60m kick to get there and by the time it would reached them, the Essendon flood in front of them would have pushed back to create a big pack and spoil. And then we would have been left wide open for the Bombers to easily rebound up to the other end and score. In the end that's what we did to them when JON got the footy in space.

The right option for Lids was to go short and maintain possession with only a minute to go and try to find someone free inside 50 for a shot as we only needed a point to win. The only thing Lids did wrong was he held onto the footy too long which telegraphed where the kick was going. That's why Hird picked it off. Right idea; wrong execution.

In today’s football that was the right option.  Part of Sam’s beef with the game now seems to be that players do hold onto the ball too long, rather than moving it on quickly.  I agree with him, because possession footy and hanging onto the ball for the right opportunity just seem to ask for the ball to be turned over.

Whereas, continuous movement of the ball puts the opposition under constant pressure.  And pressure football wins games, and not necessarily precision or possession footy.  I think that’s what Sam’s talking about and why he’s so frustrated with the game today, because most teams now seem to play the possession game, which is foreign to him and a completely illogical way to play the game.  I agree with him 100%.

In most respects, some teams play the possession game through necessity, because they don’t have the players to play a direct style of football, but even in teams that have tall forwards, players still go sideways and hold on to the ball too long, which is partly what Sam’s upset about. 

Players have the possession style game so drilled into them that even when the opportunity presents itself for a player to go long, and move the ball quickly, he doesn’t.

More often than not, as soon as a player thinks about what to do with the ball, it’s already too late.  But seeing as that’s the way our game is going, footy is therefore no longer about natural instinct and having faith in players’ ability; it’s about playing it safe.  And when you think about it, that’s not really all that exciting, as far as watching sport goes.

No wonder Sam’s bored with the game.  But that’s footy now and what does it matter if it doesn’t always make sense and it’s not exciting to watch?  As spectators we should just learn to like it and shut up about it.  What’s it matter anyway if people don’t like watching the game?

[mightytiges]

I don't disagree with any of that TS and Sam's beloved Cats are the worst exponents of this slow over-possessive footy as we saw on Friday night  . I just thought Lids' kick wasn't a good example of this given the scores were level with a minute to go. Our forward line was already flooded by Essendon by the time Lids gained possession so perhaps if the footy had been delivered to Lids much faster then he would have had a far more open forward line to kick quickly into.   

As for our game on the weekend, the whole point of Wallace's run and carry gameplan is to move the ball quickly but we went totally away from that against Sydney. You just have to watch us on the weekend with the kick-ins. The Swans are good enough as it is manning up on the opposition without us making it easy for them by taking half an hour to take our kick  and with teammates pointlessly running slowly in small circles instead of running hard and direct into space to create a  option upfield. Modern footy when played with attacking flair is exciting to watch but our blokes in Y&B need to be willing to run and work harder for each other. 

[Tiger Spirit]

I don't disagree with any of that TS and Sam's beloved Cats are the worst exponents of this slow over-possessive footy as we saw on Friday night .

You’re game watching that MT.  No wonder Sam’s disinterested.

I just thought Lids' kick wasn't a good example of this given the scores were level with a minute to go. Our forward line was already flooded by Essendon by the time Lids gained possession so perhaps if the footy had been delivered to Lids much faster then he would have had a far more open forward line to kick quickly into.

Maybe you’re right there and maybe they should’ve highlighted the play leading up to that, I’m not sure.  But the point he was perhaps trying to make shouldn’t be lost.  And how that piece of play came about, is probably an example of how much trouble players can get into because of the ‘maintaining possession’ and ‘not kicking to a contest’ mantra, which seems to be a feature of today’s footy.  The current style most Clubs adopt doesn’t seem to show much faith in players and highlights how players aren’t coached to play on instinct, but on maintaining possession.
 
I know our players are encouraged to take on the opposition, even at the risk of either being caught or somehow turning the ball over, but quick movement of the ball seems a lot more instinctive than trying to teach players a style that seems unnatural.

As for our game on the weekend, the whole point of Wallace's run and carry gameplan is to move the ball quickly but we went totally away from that against Sydney. You just have to watch us on the weekend with the kick-ins. The Swans are good enough as it is manning up on the opposition without us making it easy for them by taking half an hour to take our kick and with teammates pointlessly running slowly in small circles instead of running hard and direct into space to create a option upfield. Modern footy when played with attacking flair is exciting to watch but our blokes in Y&B need to be willing to run and work harder for each other.

You’re right about that.  But the thing with ‘unconventional footy’ is that teams without the experience and/or ability to carry out this style of footy can get themselves into more trouble than playing the conventional way could, particularly under constant pressure from the opposition.

And if the ability of a playing list isn’t where it needs to be, why is unconventional footy going to bring better results than conventional footy?  I don’t understand what the benefit can be?

So the thing that some of us struggle to come to terms with is why coaches try to teach game plans that require a level of skill and ability that so few clubs seem to have and go away from everything that Aussie Rules has been based on?  Not only does this style detract from the game as a spectacle, it also makes the life of a player harder than it needs to be.  The confidence level of a player can be flimsy at the best of times, without asking them to play a style that can bring them undone quicker than the conventional game ever could.

Wish these coaches would try and explain to the rest of us what they’re trying to achieve.  Just seems like most of them are playing follow the leader, with no real understanding, or consideration for, the impact they’re having on the game.  End of rant, for now.

[mightytiges]

I don't disagree with any of that TS and Sam's beloved Cats are the worst exponents of this slow over-possessive footy as we saw on Friday night .

You’re game watching that MT.  No wonder Sam’s disinterested.

Only watched a bit of it TS. That was bad enough  .

So the thing that some of us struggle to come to terms with is why coaches try to teach game plans that require a level of skill and ability that so few clubs seem to have and go away from everything that Aussie Rules has been based on?  Not only does this style detract from the game as a spectacle, it also makes the life of a player harder than it needs to be.  The confidence level of a player can be flimsy at the best of times, without asking them to play a style that can bring them undone quicker than the conventional game ever could.

Wish these coaches would try and explain to the rest of us what they’re trying to achieve.  Just seems like most of them are playing follow the leader, with no real understanding, or consideration for, the impact they’re having on the game.  End of rant, for now.

You'll have to ask Robert Walls TS. Remember him walking into the RFC saying the 95 side was too predictable under Northey's direct style and we needed to add more of the possession game. Of course we did have the skilled players to pull it off and the rest is history. And that need for skilled running players a few years later was the main reason we took Fiora over Pavlich as we went for what we thought we needed at the time rather than best available .

The argument is you'll get smashed on the rebound playing conventional footy but conventional footy doesn't mean going back to the style of the 1960s, 70s and 80s. Footy should always be about doing what is required to kick the most amount of goals you can in any match. That's the whole point to the game.

I agree TS alot of it is follow the leader. I would have thought the successful sides over time are always innovators rather than copy-cats. Some might argue Wallace is trying to make us play a style that we can't pull off consistently with our current list but we're a young developing side so IMO that's a different situation as it's a process of education. Geelong on the other hand are now a mature side yet they are still playing crappy zig-zag footy which will fail in September. 

[mightytiges]

How good was it seeing Lids burst from the centre and bomb a long goal  . He's been solid rather than spectacular this year and was fairly quiet up until 3/4 time but he just blitzed in the last. Great stuff!  

[letsgetiton!]

How good was it seeing Lids burst from the centre and bomb a long goal  . He's been solid rather than spectacular this year and was fairly quiet up until 3/4 time but he just blitzed in the last. Great stuff!  

good thing about lids is that he is showing maturity, he stuffed up big time and cost us a goal, but rather than dropping his head and hiding in his shell, he stuck to his guns and kicked that magic goal! if it had of been chris judd, all and sundry would have creamed themselves, but only us tigers are creaming 

[Tiger Spirit]

How good was it seeing Lids burst from the centre and bomb a long goal  . He's been solid rather than spectacular this year and was fairly quiet up until 3/4 time but he just blitzed in the last. Great stuff! 

good thing about lids is that he is showing maturity, he stuffed up big time and cost us a goal, but rather than dropping his head and hiding in his shell, he stuck to his guns and kicked that magic goal! if it had of been chris judd, all and sundry would have creamed themselves, but only us tigers are creaming

That’s what I thought was so brilliant about that goal.  He didn’t let it affect him and in the next passage of play got the 6 points back.  Just awesome.