One-Eyed Richmond Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mightytiges on October 29, 2011, 07:11:39 PM
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Mr 71% increase $2 million payrise has shutdown the whole of QANTAS worldwide grounding its fleet ::).
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/qantas-strikes-to-hit-10000-passengers-today/story-fn7x8me2-1226180030416
Virgin must think it's Christmas two months early. Alan Joyce is the Sol Trujillo of the aviation sector.
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I'm waiting for Tony A to come out and say it all Julia's fault.
:rollin
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I'm waiting for Tony A to come out and say it all Julia's fault.
:rollin
Ha more like Gillard will blame it on Abbott.
Don't forget Liberal Premiers did raise concerns over the Qantas strikes and she classed it as a stunt. I would say she now has egg on her face for ignoring it.
But seriously this would be putting alot of people out who have planned on travelling over next few days.
Looks like FWA will hold a hearing on it tonight so hopefully flights get back under way in the next 48 hours.
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[what a pathetic situation. Corporate ego at it's finest.
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Looks like FWA will hold a hearing on it tonight so hopefully flights get back under way in the next 48 hours.
FWA hearing has been adjourned to 2pm today.
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On the face of the matter, I can't see how this works in the favor of the CEO. Plus, he's damaging the brand.
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I think this is exactly what he wanted.
In the last few days he has been making noises about how this will cost jobs, now with the whole fleet grounded he has created an environment where he can implement this threat.
Ultimately his aim is to outsource Australian Jobs overseas so he'll be thinking this is the platform to get that ball rolling.
It could get ugly for all concerned
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I am a former employee of Qantas and can tell you the Unions are the strongest and best in the corporate sector
My wife is employed by V Australia and their union reps go on to being employed by Virgin. Complete farce. I took her out of the union when i saw the CEO quit to then become employed by the airline.
Qantas are the most greedy blood sucking cows that you could ever find. The unions and staff should be applauded for the stance they have taken. I just hope it wasnt for a losing clause and they get something out of it because if that greedy little irish finnochio can get a 5 mil payout for destroying the brand, then every Qantas staff deserve their cut.
Mr 71% increase $2 million payrise has shutdown the whole of QANTAS worldwide grounding its fleet ::).
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/qantas-strikes-to-hit-10000-passengers-today/story-fn7x8me2-1226180030416
Virgin must think it's Christmas two months early. Alan Joyce is the Sol Trujillo of the aviation sector.
MT the employees at Virgin dont think this is a good thing actually. Short term they might make a few quid but Qantas will not be going anywhere.
No Qantas no competition conditions will deteriorate for all employees at other airlines.
Edited: daniel you know the rules :banghead
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I'm waiting for Tony A to come out and say it all Julia's fault.
:rollin
Ha more like Gillard will blame it on Abbott.
Nah tiger101 - Tony did in fact blame Julia ;D
Tony is nothing if not predictable ;D
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I'm waiting for Tony A to come out and say it all Julia's fault.
:rollin
Ha more like Gillard will blame it on Abbott.
Nah tiger101 - Tony did in fact blame Julia ;D
Tony is nothing if not predictable ;D
Well when premiers and tourism sector people raised the issue of this hurting them she did class it as nothing more then a stunt. So she should of stepped in earlier when outside industries was getting hurt by the strikes. anyways we could debate that issue all day.
The Qantas status quo will send them broke. idiot Smith even said this morning 80% want cheap flights now days.
So Qantas is stuck in a difficult situation make a Asian subdivision or stick with current mode and not be able to compete in prices with competitors.
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Perhaps they should consider outsourcing their management and board.
I'm sure that there would be competent indian execs willing to work for less than $1M per year.
Greedy stuffing pigs with their snouts in the trough, taking on multi million dollar pay rises while telling the workforce they must expect their positions to be outsourced to cheap scab labour in foreign countries
...and some wonder why the Occupy protests happen :huh
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I think Qantas' motives here was to get people to bag the unions - i'm not sure sentiment is so anti-union this time.
You don't muck around with a perfect safety record that's something to be proud of.
And that's because of the great pilots, the maintenance and engineering crews that have made it the greatest airline ever.
So what do they do? They outsource maintenance and now they want to outsource pilots.
When they do that, they're no longer an Australian airline in my opinion and I will never fly them again.
If they win, it'll have a tidal wave effect across other industries.
This is nasty :help
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I think Qantas' motives here was to get people to bag the unions - i'm not sure sentiment is so anti-union this time.
You don't muck around with a perfect safety record that's something to be proud of.
And that's because of the great pilots, the maintenance and engineering crews that have made it the greatest airline ever.
So what do they do? They outsource maintenance and now they want to outsource pilots.
When they do that, they're no longer an Australian airline in my opinion and I will never fly them again.
If they win, it'll have a tidal wave effect across other industries.
This is nasty :help
This was always going to come ahead. Unions was giving uncertainty with strikes and people wasn't booking flights.
Also if all your competitor's can offer cheaper prices then you need to be able to do the same to keep competitive but Qantas are hamstrung and can't.
Be interesting to see what happens in arbitration because from what unions and management are saying there positions are firm in the opposite view from each other.
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Perhaps they should consider outsourcing their management and board.
I'm sure that there would be competent indian execs willing to work for less than $1M per year.
Greedy stuffing pigs with their snouts in the trough, taking on multi million dollar pay rises while telling the workforce they must expect their positions to be outsourced to cheap scab labour in foreign countries
...and some wonder why the Occupy protests happen :huh
:thumbsup
good post
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In any wage and conditions claims, you go high and you negotiate downwards. Qantas knows the game.
But with their intent to get cheap labour and cheap maintenance, there's no negotiation.
Just blame union thuggery :banghead
Well, most people can see through them this time.
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It's funny isnt it?
If foreign workers come to our shores, it's "dey took er jubs!"
but if the jobs go offshore it's just "They just need to compete with their foreign competitors...Derr... which way did they go?... which way did they go?."
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It's funny isnt it?
If foreign workers come to our shores, it's "dey took er jubs!"
but if the jobs go offshore it's just "They just need to compete with their foreign competitors...Derr... which way did they go?... which way did they go?."
:thumbsup
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I will probably get whacked and accused of supporting the QANTAS management
Firstly let me make it very clear the payrise given to the QANTAS CEO was WRONG WRONG and cannot be justified under any circumstances. That stupid decision has in fact increased the angst in this dispute
Also think what QANTAS mgmt did yesterday was heavy handed but certainly understand what they are trying to achieve, whether they achieve it in the end is the question
However, the engineers union are also wrong with their ambit claim. They want a pay increase with guaranteed job security without agreeing to any form of productivity gains. IMO they cannot have have both without offering some sort of improvment in productivity
My understanding is the majority of QANTAS maintenance is still done in Aust and in cases where a problem is detected during in general maintenance at the offshore site (IIRC its Malaysia) or another then QANTAS will send senior Aust engineers to oversea repairs (source = family friend who used to work for QANTAS as a senior engineer = means I have no reason to doubt them). Sadly this does not get reported by the union
I read an article in the Australian a few weeks back that highlighted that other airlines (read Singapore, Emirates and Virgin) use 2-3 engineers on general maintenance on alot of their modern fleets (eg A380 Airbus & Boeing 767s) Where QANTAS can have up to 14 engineers under their current EBA douing the same general maintenance. The union want to maintain that status quo and argue safety concerns if this changes. I would argue Singapore Airlines is one of the safest most reliable airlines in the world so if those levels of productivity works for them can it not work for QANTAS?
IMHO there is fault on both sides and at the moment it appears that neither side is willing to compromise. stuff AUst can end this today - let's see if they have the courage to do it
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I will probably get whacked and accused of supporting the QANTAS management
Firstly let me make it very clear the payrise given to the QANTAS CEO was WRONG WRONG and cannot be justified under any circumstances. That stupid decision has in fact increased the angst in this dispute
Also think what QANTAS mgmt did yesterday was heavy handed but certainly understand what they are trying to achieve, whether they achieve it in the end is the question
However, the engineers union are also wrong with their ambit claim. They want a pay increase with guaranteed job security without agreeing to any form of productivity gains. IMO they cannot have have both without offering some sort of improvment in productivity
My understanding is the majority of QANTAS maintenance is still done in Aust and in cases where a problem is detected during in general maintenance at the offshore site (IIRC its Malaysia) or another then QANTAS will send senior Aust engineers to oversea repairs (source = family friend who used to work for QANTAS as a senior engineer = means I have no reason to doubt them). Sadly this does not get reported by the union
I read an article in the Australian a few weeks back that highlighted that other airlines (read Singapore, Emirates and Virgin) use 2-3 engineers on general maintenance on alot of their modern fleets (eg A380 Airbus & Boeing 767s) Where QANTAS can have up to 14 engineers under their current EBA douing the same general maintenance. The union want to maintain that status quo and argue safety concerns if this changes. I would argue Singapore Airlines is one of the safest most reliable airlines in the world so if those levels of productivity works for them can it not work for QANTAS?
IMHO there is fault on both sides and at the moment it appears that neither side is willing to compromise. stuff AUst can end this today - let's see if they have the courage to do it
100% agree. No one ever wants to see job loses but some industries aren't sustainable as they use to be in this new global market.
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I will probably get whacked and accused of supporting the QANTAS management
Firstly let me make it very clear the payrise given to the QANTAS CEO was WRONG WRONG and cannot be justified under any circumstances. That stupid decision has in fact increased the angst in this dispute
Also think what QANTAS mgmt did yesterday was heavy handed but certainly understand what they are trying to achieve, whether they achieve it in the end is the question
However, the engineers union are also wrong with their ambit claim. They want a pay increase with guaranteed job security without agreeing to any form of productivity gains. IMO they cannot have have both without offering some sort of improvment in productivity
My understanding is the majority of QANTAS maintenance is still done in Aust and in cases where a problem is detected during in general maintenance at the offshore site (IIRC its Malaysia) or another then QANTAS will send senior Aust engineers to oversea repairs (source = family friend who used to work for QANTAS as a senior engineer = means I have no reason to doubt them). Sadly this does not get reported by the union
I read an article in the Australian a few weeks back that highlighted that other airlines (read Singapore, Emirates and Virgin) use 2-3 engineers on general maintenance on alot of their modern fleets (eg A380 Airbus & Boeing 767s) Where QANTAS can have up to 14 engineers under their current EBA douing the same general maintenance. The union want to maintain that status quo and argue safety concerns if this changes. I would argue Singapore Airlines is one of the safest most reliable airlines in the world so if those levels of productivity works for them can it not work for QANTAS?
IMHO there is fault on both sides and at the moment it appears that neither side is willing to compromise. stuff AUst can end this today - let's see if they have the courage to do it
100% agree. No one ever wants to see job loses but some industries aren't sustainable as they use to be in this new global market.
Yep, stuff Australian jobs
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I support Alan Joyce's action. The unions have way too much power in Australia its just shameful. Joyce has put forward a perfectly logical plan for the future but the unions will not accept that plan. Joyce should just shut down Qantas International all together since its losing money and just do Qantas domestically. Thousands of people will lose jobs but thats the unfortunate result of unions behaving in a simply deplorable and disgraceful manner.
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Yep, stuff Australian jobs
No one is saying that. What Qantas management is wanting to do is make a new Asian international subdivision so Qantas international can become sustainable for the long-term.
It's either that or in the long-term Qantas has to down size and even more job loses will occur.
I can understand workers concerns but I can also see the view of Qantas management decision to make the company profitable over the long-term which is a positive for the shareholders(in a way the boards bosses).
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Yep, stuff Australian jobs
FNM, I don't like seeing job losses and I am not saying "stuff Australian jobs".
What I am saying is that people & unions need need to be realistic. Jobs are in jeopardy the longer this fiasco goes on and it isn't just QANTAS jobs we are talking about BTW.
You said it yourselves "In any wage and conditions claims, you go high and you negotiate downwards" but there has to be give & take on both sides. While you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) QANTAS mgmt are refusing to do that I am of the belief the unions (especially the engineers) are refusing to do that as well. As I said both sides are to blame
I think everoyne wants to see a virbrant & strong QANTAS. But currently we don't have that for a number of reasons. No one should forget that while all the other big airlines in the developed world are losing money QANTAS has bucked that trend on the back of its domestic arm not it's international.
End of the day I'd rather see a company in Aust that employees 30k+ people than one disappear completely.
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Yep, stuff Australian jobs
No one is saying that. What Qantas management is wanting to do is make a new Asian international subdivision so Qantas international can become sustainable for the long-term.
No no no, youve got that point slightly arse-about.
What Qantas management is wanting to do is make the company sustainable so that Qantas management receive more +70% payrises.
And so, we continue to track down a path where the pricks get richer and the workers get bent over.
Welcome to extreme capitalism, 2011 style.
Where we are heading is a scary place.
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Yep, stuff Australian jobs
FNM, I don't like seeing job losses and I am not saying "stuff Australian jobs".
What I am saying is that people & unions need need to be realistic. Jobs are in jeopardy the longer this fiasco goes on and it isn't just QANTAS jobs we are talking about BTW.
You said it yourselves "In any wage and conditions claims, you go high and you negotiate downwards" but there has to be give & take on both sides. While you are saying (correct me if I'm wrong) QANTAS mgmt are refusing to do that I am of the belief the unions (especially the engineers) are refusing to do that as well. As I said both sides are to blame
I think everoyne wants to see a virbrant & strong QANTAS. But currently we don't have that for a number of reasons. No one should forget that while all the other big airlines in the developed world are losing money QANTAS has bucked that trend on the back of its domestic arm not it's international.
End of the day I'd rather see a company in Aust that employees 30k+ people than one disappear completely.
There is no negotiation in do it my way or nothing.
That's what Qantas is saying - if the hearing is suspended, they'll still ground the planes
That's called blackmail
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There is no negotiation in do it my way or nothing.
That's what Qantas is saying - if the hearing is suspended, they'll still ground the planes
That's called blackmail
No it's called calling the unions bluff ;D :rollin Dangerous move IMO but that's what it is
And what about the unions? Are you saying when they've sat down and said "you give us everything we want or we will continue to strike & disprupt services & BTW we are not willing to compromise on any of our claims" they've been negotitating on "good faith".
And I reckon there's been a fair bit of blackmail on both sides to be honest.... public's been held to ransom by the unions the last few months to be honest just like they are today by QANTAS
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Joyce is a legend. He should be President of Richmond ;D
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There is no negotiation in do it my way or nothing.
That's what Qantas is saying - if the hearing is suspended, they'll still ground the planes
That's called blackmail
No it's called calling the unions bluff ;D :rollin Dangerous move IMO but that's what it is
And what about the unions? Are you saying when they've sat down and said "you give us everything we want or we will continue to strike & disprupt services & BTW we are not willing to compromise on any of our claims" they've been negotitating on "good faith".
And I reckon there's been a fair bit of blackmail on both sides to be honest.... public's been held to ransom by the unions the last few months to be honest just like they are today by QANTAS
There's been bad moves by both sides - that's why they need to sit down and reach a binding agreement on all parties.
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Joyce is a legend. He should be President of Richmond ;D
FO
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Since this dispute started I've read/heard a number of people claim that last time qantas purchased new aircraft, they purchased the wrong ones.
This means that on the the global scene they are competing with airlines that fly aircraft that carry more people for a lower cost.
Yet these people that made this decision reward themselves with pay rises and tell their workforce to accept having their jobs taken by lower paid paid foreign workers?
what was joyces payrise? $1.7M? How many australian based jobs does that equate to?
LMAO off at ramps thinking that the RFC treats the members with contempt but wants joyce running the show. You would soon learn what treating with contempt and feathering their own nest really meant.
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There's been bad moves by both sides - that's why they need to sit down and reach a binding agreement on all parties.
Absolutely agree
Since this dispute started I've read/heard a number of people claim that last time qantas purchased new aircraft, they purchased the wrong ones.
This means that on the the global scene they are competing with airlines that fly aircraft that carry more people for a lower cost.
QANTAS have actually deferred the purchase of the Boeing Dreamliner (787 for memory) aircraft they had planned to bring into their fleet because of the problems with their international arm not being profitable. The other major purchase they made was the A380 airbuses, which is what Singapore Airlines fly more profitable than QANTAS and one of the reasons for that is because of what I entioned before. For the general maintenance of these planes SA use 2-3 engineers per plane, QANTAS are required (under the current EBA I believe) to use at least 10 or more - hence the extra costs ;D
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I wouldn't know the plane in question if mentioned, billy, so i went and had a look.
this is most probably what i heard, ( i think i only heard it on the radio and tv not read it)
Virgin Blue has really shown how it can punish Qantas for its absurd resistance to acquiring Boeing 777s.
...Qantas made two incredibly inept decisions concerning its fleet needs in recent years, in choosing to buy a large fleet of Boeing 787 Dreamliners, and not buying Boeing 777s.
...Hobbled with an aging fleet that Qantas for a period neglected to even maintain in a clean and reliable manner, it p*ssed more than a billion dollars in excess fuel consumption into the wind by not having 777s in its fleet. Money it will never get back. The 777-300ER is the most fuel efficient 300-400 seat sized longer range airliner available until at least 2014 and perhaps well beyond.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/08/17/v-australia-reminds-qantas-how-wrong-it-was-about-the-777/
Interesting read.
Anyways, the fish rots from the head.
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Here's another more recent article. again an interesting insight.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/qantas-aircraft-punt-comes-unstuck-20110124-1a2v6.html
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Joyce is a legend. He should be President of Richmond ;D
FO
Not happy with my suggestion froars :lol
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I wouldn't know the plane in question if mentioned, billy, so i went and had a look.
this is most probably what i heard, ( i think i only heard it on the radio and tv not read it)
Virgin Blue has really shown how it can punish Qantas for its absurd resistance to acquiring Boeing 777s.
...Qantas made two incredibly inept decisions concerning its fleet needs in recent years, in choosing to buy a large fleet of Boeing 787 Dreamliners, and not buying Boeing 777s.
...Hobbled with an aging fleet that Qantas for a period neglected to even maintain in a clean and reliable manner, it p*ssed more than a billion dollars in excess fuel consumption into the wind by not having 777s in its fleet. Money it will never get back. The 777-300ER is the most fuel efficient 300-400 seat sized longer range airliner available until at least 2014 and perhaps well beyond.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2009/08/17/v-australia-reminds-qantas-how-wrong-it-was-about-the-777/
Interesting read.
Anyways, the fish rots from the head.
Yep Qantas bought the wrong planes on top of having parts and bits of the fuselage falling off a number of planes mid-flight which damaged the reputation of Qantas' formerly impeccable safety record and the whole airline brand itself - yet the CEO still receives a 70% $2m payrise ::). Laughable! Where's the real accountability of the Qantas board and CEO Joyce for these poor decisions? The whole point of these large salaries use to be to reward the brightest and smartest who came up with new ideas, new products, new revenues streams, etc to grow the company and if you couldn't do that then you were sacked and your reputation in the corporate world was reduced to zip. Obviously at Qantas they tolerate and reward ineptness at the top.
On top of that there's the hypocrisy of asking for cuts from the workers while Joyce gets a 70% $2m payrise. Fair enough for a CEO to reduce company costs and request wage restraint but the CEO as leader of the company needs to lead by example and not preach 'do what I say but don't do what I do' to the workers. The latter only creates resentment throught the company and workforce. Qantas management stupidly has lost the PR battle and high ground with this ridiculous and unwarranted massive salary increase for Joyce. It just reinforces in the public's mind since the GFC the picture of corporate recklessness and greed devoid of reality.
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Joyce is a legend. He should be President of Richmond ;D
FO
:lol
:bow
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No it's called calling the unions bluff ;D :rollin Dangerous move IMO but that's what it is
I think it's the dumbest move a company's ever made in our history.
Even if they get a termination and they're back to work (decision to be handed down at 1am) no-one will ever fly Qantas again.
Watching Sky News and the amount of people affected really letting loose on this decision is not only bad for the airline, but very bad for Australia and it's travel industry
People's holidays destroyed, people like a cancer surgeon who was due to operate tomorrow, etc etc
Dumb. Really, really dumb!
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Rich get richer poor get poorer - Have to make sure you're in the good % of the trough.
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Frustrating that it seems whatever Fair Work Australia decides that it's not binding on the parties.
Like if it's suspended Qantas won't be returning.
They should be able to order them to return or fine them for each day they don't run
Couldn't ACCC get in and say, well, you sold these airline tickets you have a duty to fulfil your obligations
Or something like that
Fine 'em $10 million a day they don't operate I reckon.
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The action has been terminated - should be back in business soon
Unless there's an appeal of course
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The action has been terminated - should be back in business soon
Unless there's an appeal of course
There will now be a 21-day period of negotiation between the airline and the unions and a further 12 days if progress has been made by the two parties.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/stranded-passengers-stung-by-flight-costs-in-hope-of-reaching-destination/story-e6frf7jo-1226180911020
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Don't forget Liberal Premiers did raise concerns over the Qantas strikes and she classed it as a stunt. I would say she now has egg on her face for ignoring it.
Heard soemthing interesting last night while watching 7.30 on the ABC
The Lib premiers had the right (like anyone effected by any industrial action does) to go to Fair Work Australia and ask for Fair Work Aust to intervene
If the Vic & NSW premiers were SO concerned with what was happening regarding QANTAS why didn't do something about it?
Surely no party would have played politics over this fiasco would they ::) ::)
Nah would never happen would it ;D
I think it's the dumbest move a company's ever made in our history.
Even if they get a termination and they're back to work (decision to be handed down at 1am) no-one will ever fly Qantas again.
Watching Sky News and the amount of people affected really letting loose on this decision is not only bad for the airline, but very bad for Australia and it's travel industry
People's holidays destroyed, people like a cancer surgeon who was due to operate tomorrow, etc etc
Dumb. Really, really dumb!
Time will tell how mad the damage is but certainly short term the damage is massive
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Time will tell how mad the damage is but certainly short term the damage is massive
A worldwide rolling ad campaign with Captain John Travolta I'm predicting lol
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0iOvP8hE_sZyTy4XHcdyIFlP4mSyA0Zn-tpr3F1TgWPf89FhDtQ)
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QANTAS pilots get paid up to 600K p/a (average 300K p/a) for 14 hours a week work. FACT (More than what Alan Joyce earns per number of hours worked)
QANTAS staff across the board are already on higher wages than any of their competitors. FACT
QANTAS staff already receive 14% super contributions. Higher than the Australian average. FACT
Virgin Australia has two ticketed engineers per aircraft. QANTAS, 14. FACT
QANTAS is currently the only airline that does all their aircraft servicing in Australia. FACT
The open skies policy has made airline travel much more affordable for us by allowing increased competition. Yay for us!! But the competition pay much lower wages in order to be so competitive (not even close to Australian wage conditions). Due to the discounting of its competitors, Now only 2 in 10 Australians are flying QANTAS. So how do we want it people? We can't have our cake and eat it too. QANTAS has to restructure if it is going to survive in such a competitive market. You can all whinge and complain, but the fact is, we as travelers are directly responsible for the position that QANTAS is in. If we all paid a little more and flew QANTAS, they'd be able to sustain the proposed wage increases, they could continue to service all their aircraft here and provide jobs for Australians for years to come.
Boo hoo QANTAS employees and your unions. :'( If you keep this crap up we will lose an Australian icon, we will lose a major employer of people in this country and you will lose your Job. But hey, the unions will still have their jobs after they have decimated QANTAS and sent them 100% overseas. :clapping
Props to Alan Joyce for sticking up for his company. If it were my company, I'd do the same.
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Boo hoo QANTAS employees and your unions. :'( If you keep this crap up we will lose an Australian icon, we will lose a major employer of people in this country and you will lose your Job. But hey, the unions will still have their jobs after they have decimated QANTAS and sent them 100% overseas. :clapping
I wouldn't book a flight with them until I know I can be guaranteed I'd get to where I want to go to.
I'm glad they've fixed this and people can travel again (and my sister can get home) but time will tell how successful the actions by Joyce have been.
IMO pilots and engineers deserve every cent they can get. They're responsible for a lot of lives. We need the best, not the cheapest.
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QANTAS pilots get paid up to 600K p/a (average 300K p/a) for 14 hours a week work. FACT (More than what Alan Joyce earns per number of hours worked)
QANTAS staff across the board are already on higher wages than any of their competitors. FACT
QANTAS staff already receive 14% super contributions. Higher than the Australian average. FACT
Virgin Australia has two ticketed engineers per aircraft. QANTAS, 14. FACT
QANTAS is currently the only airline that does all their aircraft servicing in Australia. FACT
Thanks tiga- especially the bit about the number of engineers - that's the one that really gets up my goat.
With the new A380 airbuses the reality is you do not need 14 engineers to service it. Singapore Airlines dont' use 14 engineers and they are a safe airline (2nd only to QANTAS in safety record IIRC)
Reducing the number of enigineers per aircraft is not going to make one iota of difference in maintaining the safety of the aircraft. We will still have the best safety standards in the world
A worldwide rolling ad campaign with Captain John Travolta I'm predicting lol
IMHO that's one of the bigeest mistakes QANTAS has made in the last 18 months - rolling out John Travolta apart from being a twit he comes across as clueless.
Need to use the other "ambassadors" like Hugh Jackman. Could have Hugh dancing down the tramac arm in arm with the Joyce & the engineers ;D
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Or an ad on behalf of the shareholders with Olivia and John sing "You're the One That We Want" to Joycee lol
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Yep Qantas bought the wrong planes on top of having parts and bits of the fuselage falling off a number of planes mid-flight which damaged the reputation of Qantas' formerly impeccable safety record and the whole airline brand itself - yet the CEO still receives a 70% $2m payrise ::). Laughable! Where's the real accountability of the Qantas board and CEO Joyce for these poor decisions?
In fairness to Joyce the decision to purchase the Boeing 787 dreamliners was made by previous management & board, so he inherited that. He & the current board are the ones who has deferred their purchase because the company cannot afford it
As I said he doesn't deserve the pay rise; it's one of the dumbest corporate decisions of the last 20 odd years
But I dont' think he should be whacked for decisions made before he became the CEO.
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Or an ad on behalf of the shareholders with Olivia and John sing "You're the One That We Want" to Joycee lol
Or the Socceroos taking penalty shots with a ball that has Joyce's face on it ;D
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Or an ad on behalf of the shareholders with Olivia and John sing "You're the One That We Want" to Joycee lol
Or the Socceroos taking penalty shots with a ball that has Joyce's face on it ;D
Oh, I like that lol ;D
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QANTAS pilots get paid up to 600K p/a (average 300K p/a) for 14 hours a week work. FACT (More than what Alan Joyce earns per number of hours worked)
QANTAS staff across the board are already on higher wages than any of their competitors. FACT
QANTAS staff already receive 14% super contributions. Higher than the Australian average. FACT
Virgin Australia has two ticketed engineers per aircraft. QANTAS, 14. FACT
QANTAS is currently the only airline that does all their aircraft servicing in Australia. FACT
The open skies policy has made airline travel much more affordable for us by allowing increased competition. Yay for us!! But the competition pay much lower wages in order to be so competitive (not even close to Australian wage conditions). Due to the discounting of its competitors, Now only 2 in 10 Australians are flying QANTAS. So how do we want it people? We can't have our cake and eat it too. QANTAS has to restructure if it is going to survive in such a competitive market. You can all whinge and complain, but the fact is, we as travelers are directly responsible for the position that QANTAS is in. If we all paid a little more and flew QANTAS, they'd be able to sustain the proposed wage increases, they could continue to service all their aircraft here and provide jobs for Australians for years to come.
Boo hoo QANTAS employees and your unions. :'( If you keep this crap up we will lose an Australian icon, we will lose a major employer of people in this country and you will lose your Job. But hey, the unions will still have their jobs after they have decimated QANTAS and sent them 100% overseas. :clapping
Props to Alan Joyce for sticking up for his company. If it were my company, I'd do the same.
QANTAS pilots get paid up to 600K p/a (average 300K p/a) for 14 hours a week work. FACT (More than what Alan Joyce earns per number of hours worked)
QANTAS staff across the board are already on higher wages than any of their competitors. FACT
QANTAS staff already receive 14% super contributions. Higher than the Australian average. FACT
Virgin Australia has two ticketed engineers per aircraft. QANTAS, 14. FACT
QANTAS is currently the only airline that does all their aircraft servicing in Australia. FACT
The open skies policy has made airline travel much more affordable for us by allowing increased competition. Yay for us!! But the competition pay much lower wages in order to be so competitive (not even close to Australian wage conditions). Due to the discounting of its competitors, Now only 2 in 10 Australians are flying QANTAS. So how do we want it people? We can't have our cake and eat it too. QANTAS has to restructure if it is going to survive in such a competitive market. You can all whinge and complain, but the fact is, we as travelers are directly responsible for the position that QANTAS is in. If we all paid a little more and flew QANTAS, they'd be able to sustain the proposed wage increases, they could continue to service all their aircraft here and provide jobs for Australians for years to come.
Boo hoo QANTAS employees and your unions. :'( If you keep this crap up we will lose an Australian icon, we will lose a major employer of people in this country and you will lose your Job. But hey, the unions will still have their jobs after they have decimated QANTAS and sent them 100% overseas. :clapping
Props to Alan Joyce for sticking up for his company. If it were my company, I'd do the same.
with the greatest respect your post is factually incorrect
They do not get paid higher than other airlines. FACT!!! Pilots yes but i would say engineers are on par with DJ, but hey what do i know i used to work there and friends still do and my mrs works at Virgin.
I know people at both, and can tell you this is completely not true but hey if it suits your argument then go for it
14% SG. Maybe your confused. Standfard is 9% but some companies and Qantas pay 10%. 14% LMFAO. That extra 1% is probably clawed back in management costs anyway. An extra 1% of an average wage wow how generous.
Qantas pay more than other airlines. LMFAO again incorrect but in Australia you are right, internationally no
QANTAS is currently the only airline that does all their aircraft servicing in Australia. FACT LMFAO
They do not get paid higher across the board TIGA. Incorrect again.
Cabin Crew/Engineers/Ground crew are on par income wise, to that of Virgin staff in fact i would argue Virgin staff are paid better with the extra incentives and bonuses they receive, which Qantas decided to withdraw a few years ago
WP is spot on the money because QF have ill managed their engineering division is no fault of anyone else but their own. Why should workers pay for Qantas mistakes.
14 engineers handling one plane is the equivalent of 6 flight attendants on a 737. What an absolute waste of money. Its quality of work not quantity that makes a good airline and Qantas has detoriated so much in the last 5 years
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Daniel, all the information I have presented has been from a transcript provided by Alan Joyce Himself this morning. If you do a bit of research on the net you will find it. I know who I would believe anyway.
Re the 14 engineers per aircraft, its called advancements in technology. As WP mentioned A380 aircraft require less engineers. It has nothing to do with mismanagement. Remember, as we have seen, its not that easy to make people redundant these days.
Actually in my defence Daniel, here is the audio link for your listening pleasure.
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=10589
I know you enjoy trying to make people look like fools with your forthright commentary and alleged extensive real world experience, but I think you have some homework to do on this one. ::)
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Daniel, all the information I have presented has been from a transcript provided by Alan Joyce Himself this morning. If you do a bit of research on the net you will find it. I know who I would believe anyway.
Re the 14 engineers per aircraft, its called advancements in technology. As WP mentioned A380 aircraft require less engineers. It has nothing to do with mismanagement. Remember, as we have seen, its not that easy to make people redundant these days.
Actually in my defence Daniel, here is the audio link for your listening pleasure.
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=10589
I know you enjoy trying to make people look like fools with your forthright commentary and alleged extensive real world experience, but I think you have some homework to do on this one. ::)
Well then if it has come from Alan Joyce it must be true then.
:thumbsup
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Daniel, all the information I have presented has been from a transcript provided by Alan Joyce Himself this morning. If you do a bit of research on the net you will find it. I know who I would believe anyway.
Re the 14 engineers per aircraft, its called advancements in technology. As WP mentioned A380 aircraft require less engineers. It has nothing to do with mismanagement. Remember, as we have seen, its not that easy to make people redundant these days.
Actually in my defence Daniel, here is the audio link for your listening pleasure.
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=10589
I know you enjoy trying to make people look like fools with your forthright commentary and alleged extensive real world experience, but I think you have some homework to do on this one. ::)
Well then if it has come from Alan Joyce it must be true then.
:thumbsup
What you socialists have to answer is why when Alan Joyce rang Gillard and left a message with her office she didnt bother to ring him back. If she'd rung him and offered to assist he wouldnt have grounded the aircraft. Gillards the worst Prime Minister in Australian history and poo lazy to boot it seems. stuffen hopeless IMHO.
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Daniel, all the information I have presented has been from a transcript provided by Alan Joyce Himself this morning. If you do a bit of research on the net you will find it. I know who I would believe anyway.
Re the 14 engineers per aircraft, its called advancements in technology. As WP mentioned A380 aircraft require less engineers. It has nothing to do with mismanagement. Remember, as we have seen, its not that easy to make people redundant these days.
Actually in my defence Daniel, here is the audio link for your listening pleasure.
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=10589
I know you enjoy trying to make people look like fools with your forthright commentary and alleged extensive real world experience, but I think you have some homework to do on this one. ::)
Well then if it has come from Alan Joyce it must be true then.
:thumbsup
At least he has gone on record 65. If you have the facts to refute what he has said, then by all means produce them and I will listen.
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what you facists have to answer is why you expect the prime minister to get involved when it is right wing policy for governments to not get involved in the business world and let the capitalist system regulate itself.
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what you facists have to answer is why you expect the prime minister to get involved when it is right wing policy for governments to not get involved in the business world and let the capitalist system regulate itself.
Whoa al, don't include me in that one.. I believe that business and politics should be completely separate. Anyone who politicizes this discussion is using it as an anti Gillard vehicle. Now whilst I personally detest the woman, I don't believe she has a role to play in this.
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that was meant for ramps, you just got your post in first
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What you socialists have to answer is why when Alan Joyce rang Gillard and left a message with her office she didnt bother to ring him back. If she'd rung him and offered to assist he wouldnt have grounded the aircraft. Gillards the worst Prime Minister in Australian history and poo lazy to boot it seems. stuffen hopeless IMHO.
Errrrr Flags ....ummmm Joyce has admitted he didn't ask for Gillard to ring him, actually you might find he didn't even ring her office. Tpt Minister contacted her office. Joyve only spoke to Albanese
Going to give out whacks give them out when & where they are deserved ;D
this is not and should not be a political issue despite ceertain pollies trying to turn it into one
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that was meant for ramps, you just got your post in first
Got it :thumbsup
Sorry ramps you're on your own on this one if you are trying to blame Gillard for not responding. remember she was in CHOGM and I think her agenda is pretty chockers so you might want to cut her some slack on this one.
On another note did anyone see K-Rudd's "polio" speech?? And some labor people want him back??? :rollin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGxuGFztQz4
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I think this could set a new precedent in company vs union action tactics. Grounding the fleet for the over 24 hours has costed them less then strike action has and would of if union strikes continued on. So if Qantas can regain whatever brand damage this grounding has done then it'll show that if a company by locking out workers causes damage to the economy the FWA will terminate all union action.
Obviously the company would have to believe they'll get a better deal out of worse case scenario arbitration then dealing with unions as well though to go down this road of events.
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Daniel, all the information I have presented has been from a transcript provided by Alan Joyce Himself this morning. If you do a bit of research on the net you will find it. I know who I would believe anyway.
Re the 14 engineers per aircraft, its called advancements in technology. As WP mentioned A380 aircraft require less engineers. It has nothing to do with mismanagement. Remember, as we have seen, its not that easy to make people redundant these days.
Actually in my defence Daniel, here is the audio link for your listening pleasure.
http://www.2gb.com/index2.php?option=com_newsmanager&task=view&id=10589
I know you enjoy trying to make people look like fools with your forthright commentary and alleged extensive real world experience, but I think you have some homework to do on this one. ::)
Well then if it has come from Alan Joyce it must be true then.
:thumbsup
At least he has gone on record 65. If you have the facts to refute what he has said, then by all means produce them and I will listen.
"approximately, some get paid that rate others another rate" across the board etc etc clever use of words from a bloke who bends over blokes in his spare time, not that theres anything wrong with being gay. Joyce has no idea how to run a successful airline which is evident by his reduction in salary. He can not justify an increase and he knows it.
I may be younger Tiga but sometimes you should know a bit more about it then just going off a useless pre determined interview. I respect your opinion because in other topics you seem very intelligent, but dont believe the twisted sneak use of words Joyce.
He never said all employes get 14% as you have suggested he said "some do". Some can be 4 employees, 200 employees or 65 employers. It was a rubbish interview.
Keep digging. Anyone can use words cleverly to support their argument.
You wrote "Qantas staff already receive 14% SG. Incorrect!!
10% to all baggage staff and ground staff as i said earlier.
Maybe he came up with the 14% figure when he was bending his boyfriend over or maybe just maybe he was referring to his big wig mates in management.
Anyone can google a bit of info and cut and paste and interview, but try speaking to people who actually work there and have worked there for a very long time, instead of shooting your mouth off about an industry where you are not privy to all the factual information.
i challenge you to provide proof because that interview is not proof. Do you have a copy of the EBA ????
A one eyed biased Alan Jones trying to make Joyce and QF look like innocent little souls. :chuck :chuck
A copy of the draft eba from FAAA and TWU will do it as proof, but by all means just ask any individual who works at the airport, Its actually not that hard.
Every Qantas employee at the airport will tell you they get either 9% or 10% super. FACT!!
as for getting paid more than any other airline again do you have a copy of all Qantas contracts do you. It seems you have no proof whatsoever apart.
Speak to the people Tiga they dont lie
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What you socialists have to answer is why when Alan Joyce rang Gillard and left a message with her office she didnt bother to ring him back. If she'd rung him and offered to assist he wouldnt have grounded the aircraft. Gillards the worst Prime Minister in Australian history and poo lazy to boot it seems. stuffen hopeless IMHO.
Errrrr Flags ....ummmm Joyce has admitted he didn't ask for Gillard to ring him, actually you might find he didn't even ring her office. Tpt Minister contacted her office. Joyve only spoke to Albanese
Going to give out whacks give them out when & where they are deserved ;D
this is not and should not be a political issue despite ceertain pollies trying to turn it into one
the story as I relayed it on here was said on radio. so if what they said is wrong then clearly what I said is wrong and I in the spirit of traditional Australian politics withdraw what I said lol. ;D
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what you facists have to answer is why you expect the prime minister to get involved when it is right wing policy for governments to not get involved in the business world and let the capitalist system regulate itself.
If one of the mods can officially change my name tag to "Machiavellian Tiger" I would be most impressed ;D
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:laugh:
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Personally I don't give a toss if he knew early or not but...
To lie about it smacks of a watergate type cover-up.
This, if true, could mean his demise.
:lol
Abbott denies having prior knowledge of Qantas grounding
By Jeremy Thompson
The Qantas political brawl has escalated dramatically with an extraordinary suggestion that Opposition Leader Tony Abbott had prior knowledge that Qantas was to ground its aircraft.
Mr Abbott was forced to deny the claim in Parliament, saying he heard about the grounding only a few minutes before it came into force on Saturday.
Transport Minister Anthony Albanese called a press conference to question why Mr Abbott suddenly changed his rhetoric on Friday to demand the Government intervene in the dispute.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-01/abbott-denies-prior-qantas-grounding-knowledge/3613094
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1965 I told you Gillard will try and blame this on Abbott. Answer me this why do you keep blaming Abbott for things that are happen when his not even the PM? According to Gillard and ALP supporters it seems Tony Abbott the opposition leader has more power then the current PM and Government.
Fact is he told Gillard to intervene on friday and she didn't. Also on the channel 7 news(just before) it shown a Qantas statement saying Tony only found out between 4.15-5pm on Saturday.
Gillard needs to stop blaming the opposition and answer the tough questions her self.
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1965 I told you Gillard will try and blame this on Abbott. Answer me this why do you keep blaming Abbott for things that are happen when his not even the PM? According to Gillard and ALP supporters it seems Tony Abbott the opposition leader has more power then the current PM and Government.
Fact is he told Gillard to intervene on Friday and she didn't. Also on the channel 7 news(just before) it shown a Qantas statement saying Tony only found out between 4.15-5pm on Saturday.
Gillard needs to stop blaming the opposition and answer the tough questions her self.
Indeed he suddenly changed track on Friday.
And that's not to mention the two Liberal State Premiers who obviously were told as well.
This smells and you know it smells.
Tony A has once again been caught out by his constant negativity and lies.
:cheers
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Fact is he told Gillard to intervene on friday and she didn't. Also on the channel 7 news(just before) it shown a Qantas statement saying Tony only found out between 4.15-5pm on Saturday.
Gillard needs to stop blaming the opposition and answer the tough questions her self.
Fact is Tony stopped a press conference yesterday when he was asked a question. That's what he got attacked in parliament for yesterday
He was asked in his "presser" when he was made aware of the possibility that QANTAS management might ground the fleet not when he knew it was going to happen which was as you said 4.15-5pm Saturday. He refused to answer. He did his stock standard "ums & arhs" and then stopped the presser
Everyone's favourite CEO Joyce has said that he spoke to the opposition leader's office a number of times over the last few weeks and said the grounding was a "possibility" supposedly like he did with the govt...
Fact is a anyone could have intervened under the FWA act (including concerned State Premiers & Fedearl opposition leaders ;D) but all the pollies chose not to because just like every other thing that happens in this country they had to turn it into political footy
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Well said WP. Political football is incredibly annoying and so not required in this situation.
And 65 you are just as bad. :banghead Always trying to turn any situation into an anti-Abbott diatribe. Hell I bet if you bought a cold pie you'd blame it on Abbott. Its getting old Bro...real old... :sleep "Watergate"....Good one Chicken little. :rollin
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Now it's Hockey's turn to be caught out lying.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-11-02/albanese-renews-attack-over-qantas/3614710
Government seizes on Hockey's Qantas comments
The Federal Government has seized on comments by shadow treasurer Joe Hockey that he was told by Qantas well before Saturday that it was planning to ground its aircraft.
Transport Minister Anthony Albanese is suggesting Qantas and the Opposition colluded during the industrial dispute and the Opposition knew well in advance the aircraft would be grounded.
On ABC TV's 7.30 last night, Mr Hockey told Leigh Sales he heard the aircraft would be grounded "weeks ago".
"They've [Qantas] been saying it. Weeks ago. Publicly and privately, they have been saying for weeks," Mr Hockey said.
and today...
Mr Hockey moved to clarify what he had said, telling ABC News Breakfast this morning the Opposition had not heard about the lockout of workers until "4:45[pm] on Saturday".
"Qantas had not suggested there was going to be a lockout at any previous time to that," he said.
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Yep Qantas bought the wrong planes on top of having parts and bits of the fuselage falling off a number of planes mid-flight which damaged the reputation of Qantas' formerly impeccable safety record and the whole airline brand itself - yet the CEO still receives a 70% $2m payrise ::). Laughable! Where's the real accountability of the Qantas board and CEO Joyce for these poor decisions?
In fairness to Joyce the decision to purchase the Boeing 787 dreamliners was made by previous management & board, so he inherited that. He & the current board are the ones who has deferred their purchase because the company cannot afford it
As I said he doesn't deserve the pay rise; it's one of the dumbest corporate decisions of the last 20 odd years
But I dont' think he should be whacked for decisions made before he became the CEO.
Fair enough WP but Joyce has been in charge while there have been midflight problems with aircraft, while Qantas' shareprice has fallen further and while no dividends are being paid. Then we have 5 Qantas directors who have been on the board for 5 years or more avoiding any responsibility for past poor decisions and avoid any need to make sacrificies for the good of the company. This is the same company that gave its former CEO $11m for 5 months work on his way out. As I said I have no issue with management needing to making tough decisions to trim the fat throughout the company provided there is genuine leadership. However the 70% pay increase is more than just dumb. It is a representation of a total lack of leadership and more of the same inept greedy culture at the top that treats everyone else with contempt and as fools. The crux of good leadership is showing positive initiative and leading by example. There is no leadership from the top at Qantas and until that changes then Qantas' future will remain questionable.
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Looks like Qantas will be fined $1.1 million for continuing to sell tickets online for 3.5 hours after the lockdown :wallywink. That's half of Joyce's payrise ::).
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QANTAS' attempt at social media promotion has turned into a classic PR disaster, with users hijacking the promotional tag to insult the airline.
In the past week, Qantas hired four full-time social media monitors to keep tabs on what people are saying about it on Twitter and stuff.
After this latest debacle, they may certainly have their hands full.
http://www.news.com.au/business/breaking-news/qantas-attempt-at-twitter-promotion-a-pr-disaster/story-e6frfkur-1226202536419
This is what you obviously get a 70% pay rise for as CEO :stupid :rollin