Everything new is old again

[Diocletian]

GWS have had an endless supply of talent & draft capital to trade and it was all set up for them by the AFL....while Geelong have connections at the top that we don't and a point of difference that attracts players who want a country /coastal lifestyle but still be close to the big smoke  and the Filth have a lot of support from the big end of town....Richmond are the odd one out in the Big 4 in that regard as we've never really had the backing of the high profile establishment to the extent that the other three have....we also haven't been kissed on the dick by father/sons like those Geelong & the Filth have been....not saying we couldn't have done things a lot better since the flags but it's hasn't all just been genius list management from the others with out any leg up from other factors that weren't afforded to us.....

[the claw]

Still think we are struggling now because we failed abysmally to recognise where the list was at. Especially at the end of 2020.

To me 2020 was the last role of the dice and we got lucky and won a flag. It was time to start the transition period instead we kept on trying to pinch another one.

 It was the easy route and the dumb one. I actually wanted us to turn over players during the premiership years and i still stand by that.
We had our fair share of ordinary no lets say average players who really needed to be upgraded on. We also lacked severly in player types and to be honest just ignored the problems.
Copped my fair share of abuse for saying this sort of thing while we were winning.

Generally speaking i will take out all players 28 and over, i do this because generally speaking they are short term players and  if we do our job right need to be at the very least planning for their replacements.

That to me is just plain common sense you are planning and drafting the same types who will be retiring in the not too distant future.
We imo have tended to draft after they have retired. Or if we have drafted before its been a token pick with not a lot expenditure.

 That has always been my thinking. But  we actually ignored their age and the lack of numbers and just how many were our best players. We mostly ignored what types they were and we ignored the need.
We went down the lets eke out another premiership path that we should never have gone down.It was ah well lets not draft that type a f/a or we can trade for one if need be approach was adopted.

That approach actually ignored where we got the majority of our better dynasty players from.

At the end of 2020 look what was left after you took out the 28 plus year old  players. It left around 30 players, 17 who would be gone by the start of this year. Thats most of the younger core gone anyway.

Of the remaining players i would say there are just 7 you could call B plus grade players.  leaving another 6 who would not be greatly missed if they were not there imo. Outside 0f the great 28 plus year olds we had, we had just 7 players to build from in 2020 imo..

What was left on the list after you took out the 28 plus year olds was of real concern. Many were talking about it. Its hard to win any footy debate though when you have just won a premiership.

Not only did we ignore this, we continued to greatly ignore and thus failed to address serious positional  short comings on the list forcing us to trade out of drafts and boy has that cost us and will continue to hurt for many years to come.

How many seasons did it take us to build a dynasty basically starting from scratch. Wallace era  2004  and getting plenty wrong right thru to 2017.
Around 13 - 14 years. We will have to go down the rebuild path we have not won a flag for 4 seasons including this year and we are yet to bottom out. Just how long should the expectation be.

It takes years just to get your hands on the quality picks you need and it takes even more to bring all those picks and players up to enough games as a group to even begin challenging.

The list 2024 i count 33 players aged under 28. only  6 or 7 have proven themselves to be B grade or above imo. Some of the younger kids may get there some are decent players. Its gunna be a long long haul 4years and counting and we still have not bottomed out.

[Chuck17]

Everyone is an expert in hindsight

[Andyy]

Claw you do have a point.

2021 was when we should have realised we were cooked.

2022 trade efforts were a glaring mistake.

I don't blame the club for trying to stay at the top but it looks to have backfired and put us back 2-3 years in a rebuild IMO.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

Everyone is an expert in hindsight

We’ll be better in hindsight in 3 years when we are hitting our 3rd bottom 4 finish in a row….

[the claw]

Everyone is an expert in hindsight

Really chucky not too much hindsight on my behalf. As i said one of few who was arguing about this while we were winning flags.

We imo have got a lot wrong recruiting and list management two of the biggies. Things are now far worse than they needed to be.
We see it all the time clubs hanging for dear life after a successful period.

[Tiger Khosh]

Claw you do have a point.

2021 was when we should have realised we were cooked.

2022 trade efforts were a glaring mistake.

I don't blame the club for trying to stay at the top but it looks to have backfired and put us back 2-3 years in a rebuild IMO.

It’s very easy to say that. I wasn’t on the forum in 2016, but how many people were opposed to giving up or top pick for Prestia and other picks for caddy and nank? I’d wager there would have been quite the outcry at that point as well.

I don’t think we could have won the flag in 2022, but reverse that BS goal review in the final against Brisbane and who knows.

Like chucky said, hindsight is 20:20. Trades and list management decisions are always a gamble, you win some (2016), you lose some (2022). The main reason we are down is because we did not have access to the top end of the draft because we were too busy winning flags. I keep mentioning it but there have been 4 dynasty teams in the AFL era, ourselves, hawks and Brisbane have all dropped off a cliff and go through a rebuild. While Geelong seem to ‘contend’ every year and avoid rebuilds, they still went 11 years btw their 2011 and 2022 flags and were mainly pretenders in that time.

[the claw]

Claw you do have a point.

2021 was when we should have realised we were cooked.

2022 trade efforts were a glaring mistake.

I don't blame the club for trying to stay at the top but it looks to have backfired and put us back 2-3 years in a rebuild IMO.

It’s very easy to say that. I wasn’t on the forum in 2016, but how many people were opposed to giving up or top pick for Prestia and other picks for caddy and nank? I’d wager there would have been quite the outcry at that point as well.

I don’t think we could have won the flag in 2022, but reverse that BS goal review in the final against Brisbane and who knows.

Like chucky said, hindsight is 20:20. Trades and list management decisions are always a gamble, you win some (2016), you lose some (2022). The main reason we are down is because we did not have access to the top end of the draft because we were too busy winning flags. I keep mentioning it but there have been 4 dynasty teams in the AFL era, ourselves, hawks and Brisbane have all dropped off a cliff and go through a rebuild. While Geelong seem to ‘contend’ every year and avoid rebuilds, they still went 11 years btw their 2011 and 2022 flags and were mainly pretenders in that time.

The big difference between 2016 and getting Caddy Prestia and Nank to 2022 and getting Taranto and Hopper is quite obvious. The number of high quality players we had accumulated  going right back to 2006 and topping it all off in 2016 and the age demographic most of them were in compared to 2022. In 2022 almost all of our best players who were going to carry us to another flag were vets.

By the way i will put my hand up and say i was one who did not want Prestia at the end of 2016. I was rapt we got Nankervis and i had never really rated Caddy as a player and i still don't.

Taranto and in a lesser way Hopper were very large list needs weather we were in a window or not. We had just plain refused to draft adequate numbers of their type and in good positions in the draft with only RCD  being a decent pick. Our infatuation with smalls and flankers is well documented. I still maintain we took smalls because there is a better chance of getting something out of them over big bodied players and talls.

I have not heard one supporter here actually acknowledge just how bereft we were of big mids and we had no choice but get at least one good mature one. That was not to win a premiership it was just to compete. We are in that place with key forwards and have been for years and Key defenders is not much better.

[Andyy]

Agree Claw, the list was old and failing at the end of 21-22.

Club probably should have known 22 wasn't an indication that the window was still open but I think none of us wanted to admit that.