Just to temper the excitement ....

[mightytiges]

To be honest I don't want reality. I want old fashioned Richmond swagger and arrogance. I want the rest of the league to be sick to death hearing how we are coming and how they are going to have to extend the "G" when we do. I want Blues and Magpies choking on our boasting and bravado just like in the old days.

It was funny reading on a Carlton forum the other day how sick they all were of hearing about Richmond and Cousins. Pot kettle black whinging .

The old-fashioned swagger and arrogance off-field went with flag after flag on-field. Deliver on-field and the respect will automatically come.

True enough but let's stuff it down their throats anyway. Whenever I talk to a Blue before March I'm referring to us as the MIGHTY TIGERS. Always use mighty. When I talk of the "G" it is OUR HOME in OUR suburb which effectively it is. Whenever i talk of the fans it will be Tiger Army VS Blue platoon.

They wil be sick to the back teeth listening to me.

Car'n the MIGHTY MIGHTY TIGERS. !!!

Fair enough lol

[Hellenic Tiger]

If you finish 9th, surely it is kind of self-evident that you struggled to beat the sides above you? Similarly, if you finish top 4, then it's a fair bet that you've beaten some of the sides around you?

And if we had beaten St Kilda and the Dogs we would have been a top 4 side going into finals with 3 wins from 12 games against top 8 opposition. A bit deceiving that stat, we are on the right track but still a fair way off.

[mightytiges]

If you finish 9th, surely it is kind of self-evident that you struggled to beat the sides above you? Similarly, if you finish top 4, then it's a fair bet that you've beaten some of the sides around you?

And if we had beaten St Kilda and the Dogs we would have been a top 4 side going into finals with 3 wins from 12 games against top 8 opposition. A bit deceiving that stat, we are on the right track but still a fair way off.

In some ways it's a positive we did fail in both those games as it will prevent us getting ahead of ourselves. Let the Saints still delude themselves into thinking they are a top side. 

[Chuck17]

In some ways it's a positive we did fail in both those games as it will prevent us getting ahead of ourselves. Let the Saints still delude themselves into thinking they are a top side. 

I see where you are coming from MT and do agree as we finished where we probably should have, however it was a very painful positive and lets hope there are no more in 2009

[Smokey]

In some ways it's a positive we did fail in both those games as it will prevent us getting ahead of ourselves. Let the Saints still delude themselves into thinking they are a top side. 

I see where you are coming from MT and do agree as we finished where we probably should have, however it was a very painful positive and lets hope there are no more in 2009

I agree Chuck but I believe that 2007 was actually more painful and more positive.  There were a large number of benefits not apparent to the naked eye that will hold us in good stead over the next few seasons.

[mightytiges]

In some ways it's a positive we did fail in both those games as it will prevent us getting ahead of ourselves. Let the Saints still delude themselves into thinking they are a top side. 

I see where you are coming from MT and do agree as we finished where we probably should have, however it was a very painful positive and lets hope there are no more in 2009

I agree Chuck but I believe that 2007 was actually more painful and more positive.  There were a large number of benefits not apparent to the naked eye that will hold us in good stead over the next few seasons.

True smokey. Just as the pain of 2004 was needed for the Club to finally start getting its act together off-field in terms of stability and increasing revenues and resources for the club to compete and thrive in modern footy. All these things take time before their benefits are seen from the outside.

Hopefully the club eventually sees anything less than a flag as not good enough and wants to works harder and smarter to always do better. Half the teams in the AFL make the top 8 so while making the finals is great for a Club and its supporters starved of finals appearances for 25 years especially if we were to finish top 4 say, the holy grail is always and only the premiership. We have no excuse not to learn from the lessons of 95 and 2001.

[Stripes]

Baby steps MT, baby steps...

I think we have every reason to be excited and expectent of 2009. Taking the emotion out of the equation the signs are positive for us to move up the ladder.

Firstly the biggest factor for our improvement in 2008 was the steady growth of our developing youth. Sure you could point to Richo's career best form and Bowden's handful of match winning actions but these were built on a new foundation and structure of much younger players.
- Richo was moved to allow the young forwards the space and responsibility to develop and succeed which they did which was evident in our higher 2008 average weekly score.
- Similiarly Bowden started the year off poorly and was dropped before returning as a utility player which was once again allowed because of the rapid improvement of our young backmen.

Secondly we now have the list depth that is essential for success. Regardless of what you may believe about individual players ability and potential, analysing our list in terms of positions, we have a large amount of players all competing for places. This is tremendously positive for list growth and players motivation regardless of players experience. Johnson, Brown, Cogs and even Cousins may be far more experienced than the rest of the list and sport much more significant reputations but they will need to fight for their spots like everyone else on the list as the younger players are bridging the gap. In some cases I feel some of these players have already been surpassed.

Our midfield and backline are the most competive areas of our list and therefore our strongest also. Our forwardline is improving significantly but there still remains places open. This is an area where we will see the biggest improvement next year which should be frightening to oppositions given our high scoring this year. We have young forwards that are determined to cement positions and a powerful midfield unit that will continously supply them. Difficult to see how our forwardline could go backwards.

Our ruck remains the least competive but with Vickery and our new rookie (soory his name escapes me) putting pressure on Gus and Putt and in turn Patto, the future is looking bright here too. Unfortunately this notable improvement will not be in 2009 as rucks are reknown as late maturers and our stocks are young.

Thirdly Cogs and Cousins have joined the mix. Cogs has been out of the midfield calculations for 4 years but now is determined to fight his way into the side. If he can he will lift our pack strength single handedly and improve our clearnaces. If he doesn't make it he will still motivate the younger mids to perform. Cousins brings experience, leadership and a powerful work ethic to the group and this is even before he plays a game. At his best he was near unstoppable so if he can get to 50% he will be another diving factor towards our finals aspiration this year.

There are many other positive and negative factors but using probability as a guide we are set for continued improvement over the next few years and finals in 2009.

Stripes

[Mr Magic]

I agree Chuck but I believe that 2007 was actually more painful and more positive.  There were a large number of benefits not apparent to the naked eye that will hold us in good stead over the next few seasons.

That wooden spoon was unexpected and crap.
I do not in any way put it down to good management.

It really highlighted many weaknesses in our list, particularly in the ruck division when Simmonds went down(it's still not much stronger BTW).
Wallace's hand was forced after the thrashing by Geelong and finally many kids were thrown to the deep end in key roles as the likes of Gaspar, Kellaway etc.. departed.
A few of those youngsters are coming on well now(some are not too) but also a few of our core players are now two years older.

The main positive from 2007 is Trent Cotchin and that is certainly apparent..

[mightytiges]

Baby steps MT, baby steps...

Our midfield and backline are the most competive areas of our list and therefore our strongest also.

Nice post Stripes  . Too true about baby steps.

Hopefully our midfield does become a strength this year with the additions and natural improvement of our maturing cubs improving our depth. IMO it was our main weak point last year even taking into account our not yet settled young forward line (we were still the 5th highest scoring side). Our lapses during games (third quarters especially) and from week to week meant we got killed out of the centre at times even against poor oppositions like Essendon's very average mids. A combination of not having two decent rucks to win our fair share of hitouts for 4 quarters and not enough quality mids to maintain our level of pressure and win clearances for an entire match. No more sleep modes  .

[Gracie]

I agree Chuck but I believe that 2007 was actually more painful and more positive.  There were a large number of benefits not apparent to the naked eye that will hold us in good stead over the next few seasons.

That wooden spoon was unexpected and crap.
I do not in any way put it down to good management.

It really highlighted many weaknesses in our list, particularly in the ruck division when Simmonds went down(it's still not much stronger BTW).
Wallace's hand was forced after the thrashing by Geelong and finally many kids were thrown to the deep end in key roles as the likes of Gaspar, Kellaway etc.. departed.
A few of those youngsters are coming on well now(some are not too) but also a few of our core players are now two years older.

The main positive from 2007 is Trent Cotchin and that is certainly apparent..

Actually we may come to view 2007 as the year we had to have.

Everything was laid bare with no illusions. Every flaw was exposed and dissected. Both players and coaches. Not one player from that year hides behind any false positive - their shortcomings have been discussed openly by all the Richmond faithful.

Young players were forced to play well before they would in a club with a sound list structure.

These things will make us stronger for longer

[Smokey]

I agree Chuck but I believe that 2007 was actually more painful and more positive.  There were a large number of benefits not apparent to the naked eye that will hold us in good stead over the next few seasons.

That wooden spoon was unexpected and crap.
I do not in any way put it down to good management.

It really highlighted many weaknesses in our list, particularly in the ruck division when Simmonds went down(it's still not much stronger BTW).
Wallace's hand was forced after the thrashing by Geelong and finally many kids were thrown to the deep end in key roles as the likes of Gaspar, Kellaway etc.. departed.
A few of those youngsters are coming on well now(some are not too) but also a few of our core players are now two years older.

The main positive from 2007 is Trent Cotchin and that is certainly apparent..

Actually we may come to view 2007 as the year we had to have.

Everything was laid bare with no illusions. Every flaw was exposed and dissected. Both players and coaches. Not one player from that year hides behind any false positive - their shortcomings have been discussed openly by all the Richmond faithful.

Young players were forced to play well before they would in a club with a sound list structure.

These things will make us stronger for longer

Agree 100% Gracie.  Hence my comment "There were a large number of benefits not apparent to the naked eye".  In no way do I believe that any of it was expected, planned or managed by the club.  Circumstances took us there but I expect the 'hidden' benefits will produce good outcomes for the next few years.