TS: Regardless of what anyone cares to think or say, according to those casting votes, Joel Bowden was our best/most consistent player last year and, for that one season, obviously did what was asked of him by the coaches, otherwise someone else would’ve won. If people don’t rate him that’s their choice. The fact remains that he won our B&F. Moi: My point is why don’t they at least give Joel more than a week before reverting back to “get rid of the dud”. They obviously don’t respect him if they can’t give him more time to prove his worth, and, because they don’t respect him as a past winner of the medal, the medal IMO is quite worthless to them and its value overall tarnished by their opinions. It’s not worthless to me I might point out – be more than pleased to put that on my resume. But if I was subjected to the abuse Joel gets, the honour of receiving that medal would be tarnished, let alone the effort he went to to turn his career around being ignored.
TS: Where the team finished doesn’t alter anything. Under the criteria for giving votes, he came out on top. Is a player who wins when the team is down less deserving, or not as good a player as someone in a better performing team? How much harder is it for players in a bottom team to stay focused and motivated and not lose heart when most others around them are struggling?MT: The other reason the JD medal loses its gloss in some ways these days is that winning a B&F in a crap side isn't regarded a highly as winning one in a premiership year when the competition is tougher. Supporters are in awe of the top players in premiership or at least top sides. It's hard to be in awe of players when they've copped one belting after another. JF: About the Jack Dyer Medal and best and fairests in general, I tend to rate them very highly. The reason for this is becuase best and fairests reflect more than any other award how consistently good a player performs and how valuable their contribution is to the team as a whole. Coaches are in the best position to judge whether a player's contribution to a club has been worth while, as they review how a player faired in comparison to their opponent, whether they did the team things well and whether they followed out the coaches instructions.Moi: As much as I agree with you MT, TS’ point about staying focused and motivated when a team is down, is not only a great achievement, but it’s also sets standards for others to follow. Never a greater example than Joel last year when he took his demotion to the seconds, and instead of whinging he had been dropped, absolutely did everything to ensure he wasn’t going to be dropped again, and, as a consequence, was rewarded. With that example, doesn’t matter to me that we finished last, or that Joel might never reach those heights again, it was the effort he made in that season that deserves a bit more respect and given more than one week before he is put on the endangered species list again. Again, ppl just totally ignore that effort, and again, show no respect for the award.
I’m glad you rate them highly, JF, because I’ll remind you of it every time you bag Joel or Gas lol. Only kidding
Everyone has their own opinions on players, and B&F players are not above being scrutinised – it’s the total lack of respect for players who’ve won the award, and because they’ve been down on form, injured, had the bad form to get older lol or whatever, they’re considered totally useless again, and memories of their achievements are totally forgotten – again, no respect for the medal or the player.
JF: lol, thanks for the compliment Froars. I get the feeling a lot of the people of Big Footy think I'm arrogant with the way I stick it to them and fly in the face of 'common knowledge' when it comes to players like Campbell. I can understand how i can pee alot of poeple off becuase it's pretty annoying to others when one is very confronting. But oh well, some points just have to be made!Moi: It’s called respecting the player and his achievements, JF, and being loyal to someone you have obviously admired. It’s annoying to some people because they don’t understand the concept of loyalty, achievements and the fact that Richmond players aren’t robots. If I could form arguments like you do lol, you reckon I wouldn’t have a go back if I believed in something so greatly. Good luck to you, I reckon, and stand up for what you believe in.
JF: This isn't the only way to rate a footballer though. I tend to feel that a lot of fans place a premium on magical moments and feats of rare ability, over the drudgery and monotonuy of consistency. What sticks in the mind of most supporters is what gets their blood moving; the spectacular. Thus, a player like Richo who has been capable of anything and everything will be adjudged far and away the best Richmond player of his time by most supporters, even though he has had some shockers. Likewise a player like Ablett, who wasn't always the most consistent, would on his day turn out sublime performances that would take your breath away. A certain mark or goal or play performed by Ablett simply can't be quantified by a B&F. For instance, he may recieve the most votes in the B&F for kicking 15 goals one week and then a player like Mark Bairstow might recieve the most votes in the B&F for the next two weeks for getting 28 possessions and 30 possesions. The two performances don't even compare to Ablett's one in most people's minds. Ablett's feat will become legend, whereas Bairstow's performances won't be remembered. But as far as a B&F count is concerned, Bairstow will be adjudged the better player.MT: Just getting away from the JD medal - someone like Woewodin has won a Brownlow yet superstars like Carey, Ablett, Royce, KB, Jezza, ... could go on forever .... never won one.Moi: The Brownlow Medal really is a farce IMO – when you consider guys like Geoff Raines in a B&F winning year never polled one vote for memory. It’s the criteria of being the best and “fairest” which means that the greats like Ablett and Carey etc won’t receive such a medal. But when voted for by their peers, they’re the first to be named in the legends hall of fame stuff. I know which one I’d prefer – the respect of my peers rather than some white maggot lol.
That’s why it’s good to have club awards like B&Fs, so that the players that do the team oriented stuff are rewarded. Guys like Andy Kellaway, Bairstow would never receive any awards if it was based purely on football ability.
JF: At the end of the day, I must agree, that above all we follow the game passionately and get moved by what is magical and extraordinary, not by what is efficient, consistent and predictable. However I do feel that more credence should be given to the consistent, the efficient and workhorse-like players, for they show greatness in their own way, though in a more subtle, unassuming and uninspiring way. Moi: Just luv this statement lol. I can add in another as well, someone who gets more out of themselves than what God gave them. Chris Hyde has done a remarkable job in turning his career around. Never be a spectacular player like Ablett or as smooth and silky as Hird, but what he’s done in such a short time is nothing more than miraculous. My fear is if he has a couple of bad weeks, all hell will break loose on him and those achievements forgotten, such is the fickleness of fans.
JF: I probably tend to focus more on the rational than the passionate side of me when I praise the likes of Campbell. It's probably the opposite for some other supporters. Campbell really doesn't inspire any emotion other than hate when you see him play for 15 years without so much as a smile on his face and chip-kicking the ball around the filed.Moi: Could be a lot of truth in that, JF
JF: So what am I saying? B&F's are important but they aren't everything. Depending on what you value it will seem very or not so important.Moi: Value it or not, some respect for the player IMO who earned that reward playing for the greatest club of all time lol wouldn’t go astray. To be so totally ignored after one week into a new season, under a new coach, with a third of the list turned over, etc, etc, shows not only great disrespect, but complete ignorance.
MT: IMO the B&F awards lose some of their gloss because they reward players who have one great year as opposed to rewarding a player who consistently performs at a high level over his whole career. It's only when a player wins a few of them that you can say it's a truer reflection of a player's standing. Moi: True, but it’s an annual award and you can only go on performances for that year. Guys like Merv Keane may never have achieved awards, and it’s a shame he has no B&F to his name. Sucks when you play in an era when there were so many great players around you, but his deeds are always remembered by me. More talent than Andy Kellaway, but pretty similar type of person – always reliable and just did the team things.
MT: Fair point Moi. If the criticism is balanced and more along the lines of analysis it's more interesting to read than a one-liner saying player X is once again a total dud. Moi: It’s also contagious MT. As soon as one person starts calling a player a dud, then everyone hops in for their go. Heaven help Tambling, Deledio and any of the others who don’t perform tricks from the word go, because they will be crucified. It’s unfair, and it puts so much pressure on individuals. I know for a “fact” some players read these forums.
MT: Still you know that our most experienced, high profile and highly paid blokes will cop it the most when they have a poor run of games and it's hard to defend a performance like on Sunday. Just getting slightly off topic - In some ways the Club is more to blame than the player himself as they agree to what to pay the player and for how long do they sign-up the player for when contracts are up for renewal. Finally last year we put our foot down with Ottens and said you'll only get paid in line with what you offer to the team. If you don't like it good-bye.Moi: Pretty spot on MT about the money players are paid, but even the most highly paid player has bad runs of form, injuries and other variables which means they cannot perform at their peak every week. And I’m glad the club told Ottens to pee off. He had a bad run of injuries – back, ankle – and I wouldn’t bag him for that. But for someone who wanted to stay at the club so much lol, and couldn’t take a pay cut due to his bad form and went for the almighty dollar, I’m glad he’s gone and deserves all the criticism he gets. We were very patient with him, and he repaid us with total disrespect for the wasted time and effort we put into him waiting for some kind of payback which we never got. Give the guy heaps.
It’s also 20 plus years of frustration, I know that. But if we don’t support the club and players a bit more, and show some kind of
understanding for circumstances that lead to bad form or whatever, we will remain a bottom of the ladder club. I know it’s too much for supporters to show encouragement, but a bit of understanding over a longer period than a week wouldn’t go astray.
Doesn’t mean we have to mollycoddle them either. Criticise them if they deserve to be criticised, but I hope ppl show more understanding in the future.
I know it’s never going to happen – just my beef at the moment. I will get over it “eventually” lol.
Sorry about the colours - i was bored lol
