lol stiff competition from griffiths. the bloke is kidding. grif has not produced anything that should threaten a good and well established kpf. the trouble is there is no competetion. peaheart vickory or hardly touch it griffith. both have been as poor as each other.there is no blow torch and has never been a blow torch for these two there is no one else. that is the problem.
we have never ever structured our tall list up properly and we have never ever had the numbers to actually develop our own properly.
IMHO. He is right and your wrong. Griff did keep him out and if you watched the games instead of just going on about "9 touches" you will see how many important contests and possessions he had. I really don't know why you can't or wont see what most others can. He said Griff passed him on the order of big guys and yes he did.
thats fine we all have differing opinions.mine is both were shizen and there was no other competition given we played both plus jr when ever possible. when dropped for poor form there was no other tall fwd picked, when vickery was supposedly injured and then later suspended there was no other tall fwd come in. we changed our structure because there was no one else.
the club has constanly showed it wants to play 3 talls fwd as most clubs do.and rightly so imo. in fact this was very much the case.
imo there is no competition for either vickerys spot or griffiths they arent in competition for the one position and never have been. ones played ruck/fwd and one has played kpf.
in effect there is no competition for their spots unless mckenzie miraculously makes the grade from day dot or mcbean puts on 100kg in a hurry. .it was the case last yr that jr played f/f one of the two played chf and the other played ruck/fwd or vice versa when ever possible.
no one has offered any sort of competition to these two because there is no one else. both have missed because of poor form injury or suspension. not because one forced the other out.
its simple if you dont have a blow torch or in this case other players putting pressure on then you cant apply any heat.
IMO if we had just one decent tall fwd in development then both would have had some pressure on em to perform. because neither at any stage performed to a high standard. in fact both were mainly poor. if you think griffiths performances were the reason vickery did not get back in after suspension then i disagree.. ordinary performances dont keep players out of sides unless the player being kept out has been poor as well.we need to play 3 tall fwds unfortunately we dont have three that are good enough or performed to an acceptable standard.
i really cant see how you can accept the sort of out put griffiths has dished up to date. ffs vickery has copped it in the neck by all and sundry including me. yet hes out performed griffiths who is being praised. at least vickery kicks a few goals and finds a little bit of ball inside 50.
i think you need to ask yourself exactly what it is you expect from key fwds, because atm it seems you aint asking much.
What do I expect from a 200cm 22 year old who had played less than 20 games before last year ? (mostly down back I might add)
Make a contest Check
Learn his craft and show improvement Check
Chase and Tackle Check
Take some grabs Check
Show us hints of what he is capable off Check
Make import team plays (one percenters) (watch the replays) Check
What do you expect ?
Yes he did keep Vickery out because the "Maric Griffiths" ruck partnership and our structure like this was working much better. Yes they wanted to play all three but at the time it was a structure that was winning games and you normally don't stuff with that. Hence Griffiths performance in the last 5 rounds where he actually took more marks than your Elite Jack and made many critical plays (poor as YOU saw them) were keeping Vickery out.
I would like to also address the issue of numbers. You have long claimed we have too many tall fowards/ruckman and say we should trade away Griffiths or Vickery, yet in this post we don't have enough of these types to compete for the role. Well do we or don't we have enough?
as i said you have very low expectations. i would expect all of the above from a first yr player. not a 23yo whos had 5 yrs. or for that matter a a 24 yr old whos been around for 6 yrs.
oh and to be clear i have said we have too many ruck/fwds as opposed to talls who can play exclusively fwd. vickery mcbean griffiths and if the club is to be believed hampson which i dont buy into.. none are good enough to play kp or ruck exclusively hampson excluded here in the ruck. they are sort of jack of two trades master of neither. i think that a very good analogy by the way. therein lies my complaint and our problem imo.
imo and ive done this to death the club lacks two kpfs only riewoldt and mckenzie whos only just arrived.. it lacks two third tall types you know some one around 190/192 whos quick agile and compliments the type of tall fwds we have. we dont have one tall fwd of this type..
we have 3 ruckmen imo as i dont see hampson as a fwd. its not a bad number but it lacks quality. maric is a very solid citizen and quite frankly cant be replaced.
we have 3 ruck/fwds of which to date the 5th yr griffiths and the 6th yr vickery have been in the main very ordinary. we dont need all three.
like everyone i see the odd good thing griffiths does, but there is no consistency his poor is abysmal and his output unacceptable.
ffs a 5th yr kpf who kicked what just 12 goals for the yr that needs to be imo closer to 40 plus. a bloke who just doesnt get enough ball even though hes given some freedom to roam when he gives maric a short break a bloke who plays across hf rather deep when played fwd. 7 or 9 or whatever it is possesions a game is not good enough its freakin lousy. i would not accept it from a first yr player let alone a bloke whos had 5... a 200cm tall who takes a good contested mark but takes few c/m in the fwd 50 or for that matter few marks at all in the fwd 50. is he a kpf or not.sometimes its not about taking the mark but where you take it.
you mention tackles its about where it needs to be.
you know i can understand why riewoldt goes missing in games he always contending with two or three opponents yet griffiths and vickery are invisible for large periods in almost every game they play. we are not talking kids here but 23 and 24 yr old players who have been around for 5 and 6 seasons.
this yr just like last yr we will play griffiths, vickery, and riewoldt in the one team. like last yr when or lets be nice and say if vickeru and griffiths perform at the same level they will have no competition for their spots. there is only mckenzie and the still very undersized mcbean. they may even give hampson another go who is a far better ruckman than the other two but unbelievably worse than the other two up fwd. i can only see hampson playing if maric god forbid gets hurt.
look we are not going to agree on this ive done it to death on other threads but you do realise most people are critical of both griffiths and vickery and what they have produced to date.geez they may even become good players for us but for the life of me i can only call em ordinary based on their record to date and my opinion on them wont change until they actually play to a good consistent standard for a decent period of time.
of the two vickery has been the better simply because he at least kicks a few goals and gets a bit of ball inside 50.i think griffiths works harder with out the ball and far better in the air.
mate ive done the exercise of comparing vickery against other kpfs at a similar age and he doesnt stack up and imo vickery has performed better than griffiths.