A Reality look at 09 Culling

[TigerLand]

Seeing as we are all culling 3/4 of the list lets do a legitmete Cull anything over 15 players is ludicrous.

Firstly the walk up starts:

Retirees
-Johnson
-Bowden
-Brown
-Coughlan

Then First to Go:

-Simmonds (Couldn't possibly get another game)
-Pettifer (Coming off knee reco, now broken knee cap. Behind Morton as No.1 small Lead up forward, also too old now to be in next possible dream premiership)
-McMahon

Thats 7

Before you cull young players that could be given a better development and chance under a new regime, next to go are the tried but most likely wont make it category (Probably the toughest category):

-Schultz
-Polak
-King

All 3 have some upside to keeping whether it potential, or chance under a new coach. I think Schultz has had enough chances but still remember he's 24, or 25 next season. In fact thats proably enough for me.

Out of that lot, maybe 1 would stay.

Thats 9

Thats probably it for the straight up delistings or trade for anything bunch, the next list management phase would be in two parts:

A) Players who are too old to feature in the blossom of our youths rebuild
B) The youth players that havent developed as hoped for

Starting with A:

Players that wont feature in premiership Window

-Tuck
-Newman
-Moore (26 next year, shoulder problems not setting the world on fire puts him in here)

For mine all have to be up for trade value for something worthy, if nothing is offered then they stay. If we are lucky a max of 1 trade of those 3 will be worked out.

Lets say that now 10 gone

And finally B:

Younger players that haven't fulfilled there development potential
-JON
-Raines
-Pattison
-Polo
-Hughes
-Thompson
-Hislop
-Connors
-Putt

Probably the scariest cull since there are so many. I think out of that group the only with currency for trade are, Raines, Pattison, Polo, Hughes and Connors. Putt may be saved since he's untried and JON I feel unless Hardwick gives him a life with be delisted or traded at a very low rounder.

Reality Raines would get picked up, as would Hughes, Patto and Polo and maybe 1 delisting. Using the rule of unknown probability lets say 3 of that list leaves in one way or another. Maybe 2.

That leaves the magic number of 12-13 moved players from list, I can't see much more than that, seeing out of those 12-13 would include contracted Schultz, McMahon and King so if we kept all of them cause of contract reasons, we would could have a cull of single digits..


Think everyone else is easily safe guys like White, Edwards, Graham that have come under scrutiny would be pretty safe as the cull wont go above a number of 40%.

In a silly way I'm kinda excited for it to happen, I can see the papers read "Spring Clean September for Tigers"

Lets Hope so.

[mightytiges]

Well Jack's heard Simmo is staying and Gus is going  but ignoring that for the time being.....

The list management has to be planned over the next 2 years (3 drafts) at least. It's too big a job to try and do in just a single off-season. Whether we like it or not we need to bottom out. It'll be tough on Hardwick in his first 2 years and some supporters will call him a dud but if he wants to be the coach to turn our Club around it's what he and us need to do.

Now we start off with picks 3, 19, 35, 51, 67,.. straight away. Next year even with GC17 hogging the draft a bottom 2 side will still have either pick 4 or 6 or thereabouts. Say it's 6, 26, 43, 60, ... It's not a complete disaster with the intro of GC17 as long as the Club is SMART and PLANS AHEAD unlike most of the past 23 draft/trade periods. We'll at least still have a top pick when most existing clubs won't enter the draft until the 20s. So we need to sign up our best young players going forward (those capable of playing in premiership side) now so they're out of reach of other clubs and then trade for picks with the rest. That will be the key for us.

We should be aiming for a minimum of six National draft picks for the next couple of years. Add PSD, rookies and rookie promotions then 12 changes per year is a realistic outcome. Do that over the next 2 years and we will have basically turned over 3/4ers of the current list only keeping hold of the current cream (which even by the club's estimation is only 12 faces).

Mine changes are pretty much the same as yours Popelord.

2009 - * Outside senior list

Retirees: Johnson, Bowden*, Brown, Cogs
Delist: JON, Hughes, Petts, Polak, Simmo, Gourdis*, Silvester*
Attempt to Trade one or more for picks: McMahon, Tuck, Raines, Patto

= 8 senior list outs (at least). Any trade would be an extra out for an extra pick. Would like to offload more but you need to match a draft pick for every out. A priority pick would've been useful here  .

Promote: Nahas

Draft Picks: 3, 19, 35, 51, 67, 83 (Free F/S), PSD #2. Plus any extra picks gained in 2009 trade week.

= 8 senior list ins (at least).

Rookie ins: O'Rielly*

2010

Retirees: Richo*, Cousins?
Delist: King, Thomson, Hislop, Schulz and any other of those lucky to survive purely because they have a contract and that we couldn't trade away this year.
Uncontracted player to GC17 for a pick: Raines?, one of our tall defenders?

Should be similar number out to 2009.

Draft picks: 6?, 26, 43, 60, GC17 pick, PSD. Plus any extra picks gained in 2010 trade week.

2011

A final sweep out of who currently doesn't come on and develop within 4-5 years of being on our list.

[Jackstar is back]

Interesting about Simmo though, he didnt want to go on at start of the year, and wasnt farewelled last night . mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Jobba]

On Simmo, I wouldn't surprised if the mentality this year is that lets get one experienced player for all 4 areas of the game. Richo -forwards, Cousins - midfield, Newman - Backline, Simmo - rucks. Something to help and guide the immense amount of new player the Tigers will have over the next 2-3 years.

What I would do personally if I was managing the list would be to go in to the Trade week letting everyone know that everyone bar a select few (Deledio, Richo, Cousins, Cotchin, Vickery and Post) are all up for grabs in a trade. Yes that means guys like Riewoldt and Rance. Actively look to trade some (i.e. RFC initiates talks for the most part) and some see if deals come to you (like Riewoldt etc.) If there is a deal that could get us better long term, then do it.

I would keep everyone on the rookie list as well as Dean Putt and premote Silvester. I know he's not going to be in the next preimership side and all, but he'll compete for a spot. And if you promote Nahas, Silvester, and say promote Browne; it gives you 2-3 more rookie spots to get these 'ínteresting' prospects to see if we can find another Foley/ Thursfield/ Nahas.

I think for the betterment of the club, the culling should be almost equally based over a 2 year period, not an instant fix right now. It will mean that we get better overall talent.

Just my thoughts.

[bushranger]

Let the clean out start and make a new begining for us.
Let him get rid of who he wants to, even if it means he get rid of someone who you or we think is too good to go.
We showed him who should go last night in the playing group.
Bring on the cull and rebuild it from what is left in the pantry.

[Jackstar is back]

Very bare pantry I am afraid.
Only as handfull of players would get games at other clubs.
Thank you Terry Wallace for the mess you have left.
I said three years ago how bad Wallace was, everyone here bagged me for bagging Wallace, well hello

[Francois Jackson]

Very bare pantry I am afraid.
Only as handfull of players would get games at other clubs.
Thank you Terry Wallace for the mess you have left.
I said three years ago how bad Wallace was, everyone here bagged me for bagging Wallace, well hello

this list is a bigger train wreck than we have ever had, that i can remember.

what a stuffin mess that fool has left us in.

[Fishfinger]

I said three years ago how bad Wallace was, everyone here bagged me for bagging Wallace, well hello

You weren't bagged for bagging Wallace as such, you were bagged for bagging Wallace in thread after thread after thread after thread after thread...........many of which had nothing to do with Wallace yet you spammed your bagging of him in them anyway.

[Francois Jackson]

I said three years ago how bad Wallace was, everyone here bagged me for bagging Wallace, well hello

You weren't bagged for bagging Wallace as such, you were bagged for bagging Wallace in thread after thread after thread after thread after thread...........many of which had nothing to do with Wallace yet you spammed your bagging of him in them anyway.

the reason why his name is brought up all the time is because he is the reason we are stuffed right now. Him and Miller no-one else.

I even recall last year people on OER saying to give Wallace a one year extension.. "he has a plan" let him finish it" bla bla bla
everyone knew this list was stuffed yet no one wanted to believe it. another rebuild-no one wanted to believe that either.
well shock horror we do need to rebuild and hard.


well here are 5 top ups that should have been kids FFS.
kingsley
graham
knobel
P bowden
mcmahon

its not only who he brought to the club its who he never let go.

schulz
JON
Cogs
Pettrified

this is the reason why hardwick needs to do more than say he is going to cull he needs to prove it. talk is chap at the RFC.

we will find out by december if we have our man to take us out of this hole we are in.

[WA Tiger]

Well one player seems to be continually overlooked on this forum and is highly rated be some posters but is IMO, IMO, IMO, he is very very very over rated and lucky to have ever played AFL. Watching last nights game backs up what I am saying, he is un-accountable and he makes stupid decisions but he is always in the side for some stupid reason. I have continually pointed out his errors just about every week and people say how good he is, please watch last nights replay!!!!!!!

POLO leave the club, be traded or just go away.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[WilliamPowell]

Well Jack's heard Simmo is staying and Gus is going  but ignoring that for the time being.....

I don't agree with Simmo staying but I certainly agree with Gus going.

Gus was deplorable last night. His unwillingness to actually contest at the centre bounces (eg not bloody jumping) instead of just looking at his opponent and running at him, makes him a liablity. He has had 5 years in the system   

Sitting at the airport waiting for the red-eye wihich was delayed for over 90 mins (bout sums up the season in one swoop I reckon) I actually said I would trade Gus to a club for an experienced ruckman (say for the argument a Charman) and we keep and develop Vickery and Browne. We need an experienced ruckman for another say 2-3 years. I don't see how we can go with 3 inexperienced blokes

Now for the above to work, we obviously need a decent ruck coach, who as I said the other day needs to be someone who has actually played the game under the rule that currently exists, rather than what we have now which  is a dinosaur who played when the rules were different. 

[Jackstar is back]

Gus has little idea.
He is a wacko, fair dinkum
He has no abilty below his knees whatsover

[Fluffy Tiger]

Well Jack's heard Simmo is staying and Gus is going  but ignoring that for the time being.....

I don't agree with Simmo staying but I certainly agree with Gus going.

Gus was deplorable last night. His unwillingness to actually contest at the centre bounces (eg not bloody jumping) instead of just looking at his opponent and running at him, makes him a liablity. He has had 5 years in the system   

Sitting at the airport waiting for the red-eye wihich was delayed for over 90 mins (bout sums up the season in one swoop I reckon) I actually said I would trade Gus to a club for an experienced ruckman (say for the argument a Charman) and we keep and develop Vickery and Browne. We need an experienced ruckman for another say 2-3 years. I don't see how we can go with 3 inexperienced blokes

Now for the above to work, we obviously need a decent ruck coach, who as I said the other day needs to be someone who has actually played the game under the rule that currently exists, rather than what we have now which  is a dinosaur who played when the rules were different. 

The last part of the post is the most important. These guys are being tought how to ruck badly, I would give Gus another year under a decent ruck coach.

Monkhurst, you have got to be mad to think this brianless twit could actauly TEACH. As a ex ruckman I have watched as our guys have reached a point where they have no idea how to jump for the ball. Its like they fake a jump in the hope that the other guy misses it, its a dicrace what our rucks have become. Lets not wreck Vickery too please.

[tigersalive]

He has no abilty below his knees whatsover

Correct, but it might help if his teammates didn't continuously pass it to him below his knees as well.   

[Jackstar is back]

He has no abilty below his knees whatsover

Correct, but it might help if his teammates didn't continuously pass it to him below his knees as well.   

Whats amazing is how this guy gets in the position of been a receiver of the ball in a" run and carry situation", then to have him cough it up.
he is actually running to the wrong spots on the ground.
he basically stands in the corridor and they handball it to him , and he doesnt know what to do