Author Topic: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading  (Read 91856 times)

tony_montana

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #240 on: November 12, 2014, 07:07:45 PM »
about time those hypocrites committed to doing something instead of telling the world to. Lets just wait for the final summit in paris next year and see if they formally commit before you hippies all start waving your bras and knickers in the air in celebration.

I'm all for cutting emissions across the board, but I'm not sold on the global warming science - too many scientists are dubious about the science for me to buy in yet. Need hard proof, not models that are soon rebuffed. Remember Peter Beaties words in 2007 re the drought? "This is not a drought, this is the norm in weather as it is in our world today, the days of heavy rains are gone"  2 years later Queenslands dams were full and they changed the working title from global warming to climate change. LOL

dwaino

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #241 on: November 12, 2014, 07:44:53 PM »
How can scientists be dubious when the fact is there is not one peer reviewed scientific paper in the last 20 years that disagrees that change is a result of an increase in the concentration of greenhouse gasses? Only economists, conspiracy theorists and christians disagree. Tony as an economist, a flog and a christian won't change his mind regardless of what the rest of the world does. There are no ifs or buts, the planet is warming. CO2, N20 and CH4, the 3 most common greenhouse gasses produced from human activities make up nearly 90% of the increase in radiative forcing . There is hard data, in fact it's published almost every day from places as easily accessible as NASA Earth Observatory.

I'm sorry but it's true,


dwaino

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #242 on: November 12, 2014, 07:57:22 PM »
Neil deGrasse Tyson hits it on the head. Scientists that are usually out to debunk each other to 'win points' are even in agreement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJhbQIlu4mk

tony_montana

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #243 on: November 12, 2014, 08:06:44 PM »
Has the earth gotten warmer in the last 15 years? bc I have seen somewhere (cant recall where atm and no it wasn't Bolt) that it hasn't(i'll try and find it)...  I keep hearing gvt funded scientists talk about it and plenty of people with obvious agendas, but I am yet to be convinced and imv im not any of the groups you mentioned.
 Im very cynical about the agendas at work here. Until the scientific world can unanimously come out and categorically show that x, y and z is happening I will continue to view it with cynicism, the only thing Ive ever seen to date is BS models by environmental ministers who have nfi that have been proven to be wrong in a short span of 5-7 years.

First it was global warming, then when the rains came it wa climate change, then when el nina settled down and weather patterns stabilized its now all about the levels in the atmosphere. The goal posts seem to keep changing. Whatever theyre selling  - I aint buying atm.



tony_montana

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #244 on: November 12, 2014, 08:18:23 PM »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2434628/IPCC-climate-change-report-Humans-causing-global-warming-STILL-explain-Earths-barely-got-hotter-15-years.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10294082/Global-warming-No-actually-were-cooling-claim-scientists.html

I thought the arctic icecap was decreasing at an alarming rate?






Im no expert, and there are plenty around like yourself who are obviously better versed on the subject than I am,  but with a half arsed 1st attempted google search I found plenty of articles on this matter. happy to be shown the truth and admit Im wrong if I am, but until these types of articles and murmurs stop I wont buy into the fact that's its universally agreed upon.

tony_montana

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #245 on: November 12, 2014, 08:28:37 PM »
A bit more reading the last 10 mins and Im starting to note that the general consensus NOW is that the surface isn't warming bc the ocean is storing it about a mile below the surface  :lol there always seems to be a convenient excuse...

and that we shouldN'T look at a short term scale of 15 years rather look at 30 as the 80's and 90's showed a large increase in surface temp...how convenient..... well why not look at the last 60, from the 50's to the 70's bc back then the earth was apparently cooling... and really what is 30 years or 60 years in the whole scheme of 5 billion years of mother nature history. The earth has cooled and heated forever and a day - I dont think man is making much difference imv  but I do agree for healths sake we need to drastically reduce emmissions. Stop the earth will die scaremongering BS and just do something about it. I truly believe climate change is a scam where the worlds few elite and greedy will get rich on a new form of economy(environmental) and that's the only reason why its getting political support.


dwaino

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #246 on: November 12, 2014, 08:43:32 PM »
Yes, the Earth has gotten warmer. Warming is change. What it means is that the warmer temperatures are hanging around longer as the years go on. Bush fire seasons are more prolific around the world because heat waves are longer, glaciers and ice caps don't freeze back to their previous year's size because the winter is not as long etc. The posts aren't moving, there have just been new discoveries from competing scientists who are only agreeing and adding on to previous truths. Not uncommon for them to be government funded though when they're employed by universities. The US is run by Wall St, Australia is run by coal and mining. Both have something to lose by being critical of the hard tested facts in hand that unanimously agree with climate change and have the most dangerous agenda if anyone does. There might be the odd well written rebuttal, but yet are any credible peer reviewed scientific literature.

As for the newspaper links, just because it isn't getting hotter by an obviously perceived value every year doesn't mean it is not warming. 15 years is too small a time frame when we're talking a rise of 0.8% globally since 1900. I don't know why Britain's temperature could decrease in that window (and the article doesn't say) but melting ice can decrease local ocean temperatures with are what create weather fronts. Lines like "Critics say this shows carbon dioxide isn't as damaging as was claimed" is absolutely rubbish because that is complete disregard of what radiative forcing is. Some of these sites are taking little bits of info to suit their cause, like a single stretch of ice was greater than the previous year (then goes to mention that the previous year was a record low), while on the larger scale some Antarctic and Greenland glaciers are on runaway melts. Then there is more crap like "But the leaked documents are said to show that the governments who fund the IPCC are demanding 1,500 changes to the Fifth Assessment Report." So who leaked the documents? Speaking of agendas I'll take a stab in the dark and saw it is the governments, who are funding the report because it is the same governments run by Wall St, Koch Brothers etc are set to lose their wealth and they want the facts to suit them. They'll pass it on and say 'scientists disagree' while it is more likely their fat economist with a doctorate in money.

If you want math, diagrams and some hard references then here is an easy one http://dels.nas.edu/resources/static-assets/exec-office-other/climate-change-full.pdf

edit: that was easy regarding Britain. Positive and negative oscillation https://www.wmo.int/pages/themes/climate/significant_natural_climate_fluctuations.php further reading explains that it isn't always uniform and regions can encounter more positive or negative over a period of time. Probably where the deniers cherry picked periods of cooling over the caps despite overall ice coverage in recession causing an increase in sea level by 7.5inches since 1900.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 09:19:19 PM by dwaino »

dwaino

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #247 on: November 12, 2014, 08:47:34 PM »
A bit more reading the last 10 mins and Im starting to note that the general consensus NOW is that the surface isn't warming bc the ocean is storing it about a mile below the surface  :lol there always seems to be a convenient excuse...

and that we shouldN'T look at a short term scale of 15 years rather look at 30 as the 80's and 90's showed a large increase in surface temp...how convenient..... well why not look at the last 60, from the 50's to the 70's bc back then the earth was apparently cooling... and really what is 30 years or 60 years in the whole scheme of 5 billion years of mother nature history. The earth has cooled and heated forever and a day - I dont think man is making much difference imv  but I do agree for healths sake we need to drastically reduce emmissions. Stop the earth will die scaremongering BS and just do something about it. I truly believe climate change is a scam where the worlds few elite and greedy will get rich on a new form of economy(environmental) and that's the only reason why its getting political support.

So why did the Earth heat and cool itself? CO2 is absorbed through plants and animals. At the highest levels in history the Earth had no ice caps and little to no desert since plants require less water in the presence of higher levels. They also precipitated more which indirectly led to more cloud cover and reflecting more sunlight. Planet eventually gets colder. CO2 in the atmosphere is at its highest levels in 800,000 years, yet we've ravaged the Earth's natural mechanisms to combat it. Deforestation is one of the biggest impacts man is having on their planet. Fact is if there has been no warming then why has the sea level risen by 7.5inches since 1900? Climate change can't be a scam when the pigs that run the governments are set to lose billions. The elected officials have bugger all say. They're elected by a majority who believe they're to benefit the most, and the officials are at the mercy of who ever is lining the pockets in order to deliver to their electorate.

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #248 on: December 10, 2014, 01:09:19 PM »
200 million /  4 years


Lol

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #249 on: December 25, 2014, 01:55:26 AM »
New data shows record fall in carbon emissions

Gareth Hutchens
    The Age
    December 23, 2014


Environment Minister Greg Hunt has quietly published data, just two days before Christmas, showing the second year of operation of Australia's carbon price was more successful at reducing emissions than the first.

New data from Australia's National Greenhouse Gas Inventory show emissions declined across Australia by 1.4 per cent over the 12 months to June.

That compares to a decline in emissions of 0.8 per cent for the previous 12 months.

The carbon price was introduced by the Gillard government and began operation on July 1, 2012. It ended on July 1, this year after the Abbott government fulfilled an election pledge by abolishing it.

The new data, published on Tuesday, record emissions produced during the final year of operation of the carbon price, from June 2013 to June 2014.

They show the electricity (minus 4 per cent), agriculture (minus 2.6 per cent), industrial processes (minus 1.3 per cent) and transport sectors (minus 0.4 per cent) all experienced declines in emissions this year.

They were partially offset by a rise in fugitive emissions (5.1 per cent) and emissions from stationary energy (0.9 per cent).

Full article: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/new-data-shows-record-fall-in-carbon-emissions-20141223-12d1z3.html
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #250 on: January 07, 2015, 01:02:39 PM »
It’s official: 2014 has taken the title of hottest year on record. That ranking comes courtesy of data released Monday by the Japan Meteorological Agency (JMA), the first of four major global temperature recordkeepers to release their data for last year.

The upward march of the world’s average temperature since 1891 is a trademark of human-influenced global warming with 2014 being the latest stop on the climb. All 10 of the hottest years have come since 1998.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/2014-officially-hottest-year-on-record/
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Offline tiga

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #251 on: January 07, 2015, 10:19:41 PM »
thats odd. On the news the other night they said 2014 was the third hottest year on record.  :huh

"Two men say they're Geez, one of them must be wrong!"

tony_montana

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #252 on: January 08, 2015, 12:10:15 AM »
 ::)

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #253 on: January 08, 2015, 03:40:33 AM »
thats odd. On the news the other night they said 2014 was the third hottest year on record.  :huh

"Two men say they're Geez, one of them must be wrong!"

Third hottest year on record in Australia.

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/current/annual/aus/

Hottest year on record globally according to the Japanese Meteorological Agency.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/2014-officially-hottest-year-on-record/


As much as I love the lyrics of 'Industrial Disease' tiga :thumbsup, Science is the antithesis of religion. So yes both statements are correct.


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Online Diocletian

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Re: Contoversial Topic #1 - Global Warming & Carbon Emissions Trading
« Reply #254 on: January 08, 2015, 04:22:44 AM »
It's scientific fact that Dire Straits are shyte.
"Much of the social history of the Western world, over the past three decades, has been a history of replacing what worked with what sounded good...."

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