Permission to train list

[mightytiges]

I'm not saying we should never ever rookie someone from Coburg as maybe one year in the future a player does warrant a rookie chance especially as Coburg aligns itself more and more with the Calder Cannons at Craigieburn. However IMO there's no one this year at Coburg who even looks close to making you want to see how they would go on an AFL list. An Aaron Davey or Nahas have exceptional pace, natural skills, and strong defensive mindsets (for chase down tackles) which is attractive to the way AFL is played nowdays despite their small size. Both also had blinders of a year in the VFL before they were drafted. Nahas kicked 50 goals as a small forward at Port Melbourne for instance. No Coburg player from this year fits that category. I'm not saying we shouldn't pick up a 'mature' player in their early 20s from the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc. Just surely there are better options outside of Coburg at other clubs.

Gourdis is entering his 3rd year and he still can't kick.

Polly's situation is no one's fault. This game though is sadly harsh and unforgiving on those coming back from serious injury no matter how courageous they are.

There's a lot there above which I call "hoping" list management. Hoping this player comes good and that player comes good when the odds are majorly against them. Eventually you've got to make the call on each player. Having too many "hope" players on your list and holding onto them for years hurts you in the long run (as we know from past experience) especially when a team is rebuilding as we are. We are better off turning over our list even more and select newbies. We got Browne at pick 39 in last year's rookie draft, Geelong picked up Mumford at 57 in 2007 (we redrafted Howat at 47 ), Freo got Broughton at 74, Picken at the Dogs at 30, Wonaeamirri at the Dees at 19 (we took Silvester at 17). Clubs that put their faith and resources into the drafts are rewarded. Those that hang onto iffy players too long miss out.

[tigerlily]

I must admit I'll be surprised if we do pick up a Burger even as a rookie. There wasn't anyone to get excited about this year  .

Disagree a bit there MT. The more likely Coburg lads were running around in the Coburg ressies because most weeks Coburg had 15-17 RFC boys (some not worthy) playing Coburg seniors. By more likely I mean those who have only been out of the TAC cup system for 1-2 years

Of the games I saw I reckon Benny Clifton showed enough to warrant being invited to train - very strong kid who can tackle. Ditto Ryan Allan - think he was very very unlucky not to play more VFL seniors. I would seriously consider a 3rd or 4th round rookie pick on Allen, you just never know.

Fair enough WP. I don't have any problems with them being invited to Richmond training as there's no harm done checking them out. I just didn't see anyone from Coburg have that something special (extra pace say like a Nahas or solid kicking technique/good footskills) that I would see give them a chance of making it at AFL level and who would fill a need of ours. With Gourdis and possibly Polly to be rookies next year, adding a Burger also would be 3 rookie spots clogged IMO. I would instead at the very least expect us to rookie another young ruckman this year.

You can't be serious, a 20yr old and a 23 yr old ruckman delisted this year 4 senior listed rucks now, and you want to pick up a kid who, in any draft in the past 5 years would be pick 120, most clubs have 2 maybe 3 senior rucks and 1 rookie, for rucks sake what is the RFC facination with talls who dont play thier best footy till they are 25 or 26. At one stage last year we had 6 senior listed ruckmen, 38 senior listed players less 6 left a squad 32 plus 2 vets, up till round 18 we averaged about 4 to 5 injured players per week if we had HAWTHORNS INJURY LIST WE COULD HAVE  HAD TO PLAY A SIDE WITH 12 PLAYERS OVER 194CM glad your not a drafter. Your right about one thing, although your mate WP will disagree, if you find an AFL footballer at Coburg you can ruck me.

[mightytiges]

I must admit I'll be surprised if we do pick up a Burger even as a rookie. There wasn't anyone to get excited about this year  .

Disagree a bit there MT. The more likely Coburg lads were running around in the Coburg ressies because most weeks Coburg had 15-17 RFC boys (some not worthy) playing Coburg seniors. By more likely I mean those who have only been out of the TAC cup system for 1-2 years

Of the games I saw I reckon Benny Clifton showed enough to warrant being invited to train - very strong kid who can tackle. Ditto Ryan Allan - think he was very very unlucky not to play more VFL seniors. I would seriously consider a 3rd or 4th round rookie pick on Allen, you just never know.

Fair enough WP. I don't have any problems with them being invited to Richmond training as there's no harm done checking them out. I just didn't see anyone from Coburg have that something special (extra pace say like a Nahas or solid kicking technique/good footskills) that I would see give them a chance of making it at AFL level and who would fill a need of ours. With Gourdis and possibly Polly to be rookies next year, adding a Burger also would be 3 rookie spots clogged IMO. I would instead at the very least expect us to rookie another young ruckman this year.

You can't be serious, a 20yr old and a 23 yr old ruckman delisted this year 4 senior listed rucks now, and you want to pick up a kid who, in any draft in the past 5 years would be pick 120, most clubs have 2 maybe 3 senior rucks and 1 rookie, for rucks sake what is the RFC facination with talls who dont play thier best footy till they are 25 or 26. At one stage last year we had 6 senior listed ruckmen, 38 senior listed players less 6 left a squad 32 plus 2 vets, up till round 18 we averaged about 4 to 5 injured players per week if we had HAWTHORNS INJURY LIST WE COULD HAVE  HAD TO PLAY A SIDE WITH 12 PLAYERS OVER 194CM glad your not a drafter. Your right about one thing, although your mate WP will disagree, if you find an AFL footballer at Coburg you can ruck me.

The last thing we could be accused of in 2009 is putting too tall a side out on the park. We have 9 players on our list under six foot. It was the team from Lilliput most weeks  .

As for the ruck, most ruckmen don't peak until their mid 20s though. That's nothing new.

Of our 4 rucks Simmo will retire in a year's time (he needs to be replaced by a new ruckman on our list) and the other 3 are still in their AFL career infancy with two still in their teens. There's no certainty about our ruck division beyond 2010. There's no guarantee Gus and/or Browne will make it long-term. Btw Putt and Patto were no ruckmen despite being tall  . We didn't finish last in hitouts for nothing  . We need to draft another genuine ruckman this year to build depth. It doesn't have to be the rookie draft either. We have 7 National draft picks so it's quite possible we will use one on selecting another young ruckman. We could also target 20-something ruckman from a state league to fill in the years between Simmo's retirement and our young rucks taking over.

As for other club, most of the top sides had strong ruck depth and those that didn't (Pies) paid for it.

Geelong (4-5): ........Simpson (206), Ottens (202), Blake (200), West (198). They also had Mumford as a rookie this year.

St Kilda (4-5):....... King (201), Stanley (200), McEvoy (200), Gardiner (199). Kosi also did some follower duties around the ground.

Bulldogs (5):...... Cordy (202), J.Roughead (200), Mulligan (199), Minson (199), Hudson (199)

Coll'wood (4):...... Wood (204), Fraser (202), Jolly (200), Keeffe# (204)

Adelaide (4):...... Griffen (202), Moran (199), Maric (198). Tippett is also 201cm although played mostly as a key forward this year.

Brisbane (4):....... Leuenberger (203), McCulloch (199), Clark (198), Charman (197)

Carlton (4):......... Warnock (206), Hampson (201), Kreuzer (200), Jacobs (200). Setanta is also 199cm tall.

Essendon (5):......... Laycock (201), Hille (201), Bellchambers (201), Ryder (197), Bock# (205)

Hawthorn (4):......... Bailey (206), Lowden (204), Taylor (200), Renouf (200). They had Campbell as well this year who had to retire due to injury.

Port (5):............ Redden (202), Brogan (200), M.Westoff (199), Stewart (199), Lobbe (199). They of course had Lade as well this year.

West Coast (3):......... Cox (204), Naitanui (201), Sullivan# (202)

Sydney (6):....... Seaby (200), Mumford (200), Currie (200), Goodes (194), Orreal# (204), Pyke# (200)

North (3):......... McIntosh (203), Hale (201), Goldstein (201)

Fremantle (3):..... Sandilands (211), Z.Clarke (203), Bradley (199)

Melbourne (5):....... Meesen (200), Johnson (199), Martin (198), Jamar (198), Spencer# (203)

Richmond (4):.......... Browne (205), Graham (201), Vickery (200), Simmonds (197)

[Infamy]

There's a lot there above which I call "hoping" list management. Hoping this player comes good and that player comes good when the odds are majorly against them. Eventually you've got to make the call on each player. Having too many "hope" players on your list and holding onto them for years hurts you in the long run (as we know from past experience) especially when a team is rebuilding as we are. We are better off turning over our list even more and select newbies. We got Browne at pick 39 in last year's rookie draft, Geelong picked up Mumford at 57 in 2007 (we redrafted Howat at 47 ), Freo got Broughton at 74, Picken at the Dogs at 30, Wonaeamirri at the Dees at 19 (we took Silvester at 17). Clubs that put their faith and resources into the drafts are rewarded. Those that hang onto iffy players too long miss out.

Sorry, but that's a lot of what the rookie list is for. It was said at the time we picked up Gourdis that he was going to take time, you don't give up on players like that after a couple of years, you knew going in wasn't going to happen over night.
Polak looked like he'd never player again and genuinely earnt his spot back in the senior side not more than 12 months after the accident, who knows what will happen in the next 12.

We have 7 (possibly rookie spots next year and only 2 filled going into the draft, I hardly consider that an issue. They're only taking up spots that would be our 6th-8th round rookie selections. You are still listing rookie players that were taken in the first 3 rounds which we are going to participate in anyway, in fact much further. Broughton himself was a mature aged selection, he was 22 when picked. Yet again bringing us an example of a player at a lower level who got onto the rookie list and proved he could make it at the next level.

[tigerlily]

Grasping at straws with your ruck analyses at other clubs MT, Goodes, Clarke, Tippett, Ryder (you missed Lynch at WC) all KPPs who can ruck. we had 6 rucks NON of who could play as a KPPs ( maybe Putt had potential ).

[WilliamPowell]

Your right about one thing, although your mate WP will disagree, if you find an AFL footballer at Coburg you can ruck me.

I could think of a couple of blokes who've played for Coburg in the last couple of years that a very unlucky not to have been rookied...

Are there any worth considering for a rookie slot for 2010 - IMHO yes there are simple because some of them show more desire to play team orientated footy than some AFL Footballers we currently have... 

That's one of the purpsoes of the rookie list, to see if those who miss the main draft can be developed. I would think our 2 remaining rookies from 2009 are fortuntate (1 in particluar) that there is rookie system in place or they would more than likely be gone based on their performances in 2009 

Again it's all about opinion

[one-eyed]

Just split this from the main training thread as the discussion was more about our rookie list.

Cheers OE  .

[mightytiges]

Grasping at straws with your ruck analyses at other clubs MT, Goodes, Clarke, Tippett, Ryder (you missed Lynch at WC) all KPPs who can ruck. we had 6 rucks NON of who could play as a KPPs ( maybe Putt had potential ).

They may also be KPPs at the clubs but they can play ruck far better than what our rucks showed this year  . Patto was our poor attempt to fill two types (key forward and ruck) with one player and we ended up with an in-between player who could do neither. Putt was a small trapped in the big body who preferred playing on a wing. Neither could ruck to save themselves. Still past recruiting mistakes shouldn't be a deterrent in future recruiting decisions. You sack the recruiter (Miller) who chose the wrong players which is what the Club did.

In any case we now have 4 rucks with one having just one year left and the other 3 yet to cement their spot. Are you saying tigerlily we don't need to draft another ruckman with either one of our 7 National draft picks or potentially 5 rookie picks? I'd be shocked if anyone said no we didn't another ruck. You've got plan ahead especially with ruckmen as they do take the longest to develop.

[mightytiges]

Sorry, but that's a lot of what the rookie list is for. It was said at the time we picked up Gourdis that he was going to take time, you don't give up on players like that after a couple of years, you knew going in wasn't going to happen over night.

Not being able to kick when kicking is a, if not the, fundamental skill of the game is a major flaw and one hard if not impossible to correct significantly at 20 years of age. If you can't kick before you enter the AFL system then that's unlikely to change. He's very lucky to still be on our list.

Polak looked like he'd never player again and genuinely earnt his spot back in the senior side not more than 12 months after the accident, who knows what will happen in the next 12.

You can argue Polly earnt his spot because he actually showed commitment and desperation out on the field when he came back unlike many of his teammates this year who didn't give a stuff. I just don't hold much hope for players who are delisted and then redrafted. It's as if the Club doesn't believe in them either. Polly's a special case because of what happened so I can see the argument for keeping him on as a rookie even if I would've moved him on as harsh as that sounds.

We have 7 (possibly rookie spots next year and only 2 filled going into the draft, I hardly consider that an issue. They're only taking up spots that would be our 6th-8th round rookie selections. You are still listing rookie players that were taken in the first 3 rounds which we are going to participate in anyway, in fact much further. Broughton himself was a mature aged selection, he was 22 when picked. Yet again bringing us an example of a player at a lower level who got onto the rookie list and proved he could make it at the next level.

That's a fair enough argument in bold Infamy when you say it like that and given the club has promoted both Nahas and Browne. We have 7 rookie spots btw as Richo is on the veteran list. Having said that when keeping players that IMO have zero chance of making it I'd rather we give a kid/newbie a chance instead. But as WP said it's all opinion. I would have instead played the odds and kept Nahas and Browne on the rookie list and then used our two last National draft picks (they would've been 69 and 70) to get in early on the rookie draft but the Club didn't go down that path.

[Infamy]

I said possibly 8 rookie spots as Richo may still retire which would give us one more

[mightytiges]

I said possibly 8 rookie spots as Richo may still retire which would give us one more

Proven to be correct Infamy. Richo retiring has probably made certain that Polly will be redrafted as a rookie. In essence Polly takes Richo spot on our list.

[one-eyed]

KAHLEFELDT TRAINING AT TIGERS

Hard running Southport midfielder Justin Kahlefeldt has capped off a stunning 2009 season by being invited to train pre Christmas at Richmond.

Kahlefeldt who won this years Best and Fairest at the Sharks and made his State debut against Tasmania was also selected in the Velocity Sports Cup 2009 Team of the Year and whilst the rumours are abound he may link with VFL club Port Melbourne the invitation to train with an AFL club is to good an opportunity to pass by.



http://www.sportingpulse.com/assoc_page.cgi?client=1-4711-0-0-0&sID=56333&&news_task=DETAIL&articleID=10492020&sectionID=56333

[one-eyed]

AFL permission to train list: November 18
afl.com.au
Wed 18 November, 2009

RICHMOND

Ryan Allen (Coburg), Ben Clifton (Coburg), Rhan Hooper (Brisbane Lions), Justin Kadhlefelt (Southport), Thomas McCann (Ireland), Jason Morgan (Coburg), James O'Rielly (Ireland), Graham Polak (Richmond)


For those interested Coburg's John Morris is training with his brother at the Bulldogs.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/87265/default.aspx

[torch]

Rhan Hooper???

No, Thank You!

isn't O'Rielly and Polak going to be Rookie Listed???

McCann is on that 3 Week trail or something like that???

Justin Kadhlefelt, would it be fair to say, we may draft him???

 

[WA Tiger]

Justin Kadhlefelt..... now I have heard this kids name thrown about a bit, is he a good thing or what, does anyone have more info on him??