Author Topic: Tigers are going down the Geelong road in their search for a premiership (Age)  (Read 3288 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Tigers are going down the Geelong road in their search for a premiership
Jake Niall | November 25, 2009

IT DOESN'T contain the drama of the 1980s' poaching war with Collingwood, the 1982 grand final it lost to Carlton, or one of those storied coach sackings. Yet tomorrow night, the Richmond Football Club faces a couple of the most significant hours in its dismal recent history.

The Tigers will call out the names of seven or eight players. Nearly all will be teenagers. Most will be unfamiliar names. One - Dustin Martin, the club's first-choice-elect - is said to have star quality, and the Tigers are hoping that from a pool of players that has been weakened by the Gold Coast, there will be others capable of wearing the yellow and black jumper 150 times.

When the rookie draft is completed in December, the Tigers will have added 13 players - 14 if you count ex-Port player Mitch Farmer, acquired cheaply (Jay Schulz) in a trade. That's an astonishing turnover, given that most clubs view this draft as possessing the same strength as American beer. This is light ale, not a premium draft. Numerically, it is diluted by a third, due to the removal of 17-year-olds.

So Richmond has more riding on the 2009 national draft than any other club - more even than Melbourne, which will call out six names. The Tigers are investing heavily in a stock that others are dumping. Port Adelaide, Carlton and West Coast have only three choices tomorrow, Essendon and Collingwood just four each.

Obtaining almost a third of your 46 listed players from a Budweiser-strength draft might appear to be a questionable or courageous strategy. In truth, though, the Tigers have no alternative. There is no other way, and they know it.

If you doubt this, consider whether the players it culled were capable of lifting the club into the finals, much less premiership contention. The Tigers delisted, retired or traded 13 players, of whom four were older than 30. A few survivors, such Jordan McMahon, were fortunate to have contracts.

Richmond has four picks inside 44 and then four ''junk'' picks beyond 50. It is taking the stance that it is better to clean the joint out and chance your arm with teenagers, than to hang on proven non-performers and oldies.

The Tigers, clearly, have followed the Geelong model from 1999 and 2001, when the Cats were forced, largely by a deficient list, to pick up a mall's worth of teenagers. In terms of Geelong's rebuilding program, 1999 was year zero. Mark Thompson had just arrived, and the Cats entered the '99 draft with seven choices.

While they had three selections inside 17 - thanks to the Leigh Colbert trade - what is most striking about Geelong's regeneration in '99 and 2001 is that the club had its share of dud choices.

Ezra Bray and Daniel Foster, first- and second-round picks, were busts. David Spriggs, a first-rounder, didn't go the distance. But besides this trio, the Cats found the following premiership guns - Joel Corey, Paul Chapman, Cameron Ling and Corey Enright. Only Corey - pick No. 8 - was an early pick.

In 2001, Henry Playfair, Matthew McCarthy and Charlie Gardiner weren't long-term players, but Jimmy Bartel, Steve Johnson and Gary Ablett - a gift from the club's spectacular gene pool - proved to be freakish finds. James Kelly is a dual premiership player.

The lesson is that the draft is a number games. If you have lots of picks, there will be failures, but there ought to be some unexpected successes, too.

For Richmond, the longer it delayed a Geelong-like plunge into a draft - even into a dangerously shallow pool - the worse its situation would become. If the 2009 draft is Budweiser, then 2010 and 2011 - eviscerated by Gold Coast and western Sydney - will both be Bud Lite.

Richmond fans, traumatised by the draft mishaps of 2004-05, may fret about such a huge influx of Tiger recruits. Their concern is understandable.

There is, however, a significant difference between then and now. In 2005, the club had no full-time recruiter; today, it has three full-timers and a new coach with a mandate to avoid short cuts. Richmond isn't rolling the dice tomorrow. Rather, in a landscape transformed by new teams, it is playing the percentages, using the only cards available.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/rfnews/tigers-are-going-down-the-geelong-road-in-their-search-for-apremiership/2009/11/24/1258824712378.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Offline Penelope

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Quote
In 2005, the club had no full-time recruiter
.
Is this true? If so this is the most stunning thing I have read for a long time. Who were the people responsible for this situation?

Quote
The lesson is that the draft is a number games. If you have lots of picks, there will be failures, but there ought to be some unexpected successes, too.
I think this is something people fail to realise. Many people expect just because a person is taken at an early pick they will come good. All that it means is that at that age, they showed more obvious potential than those around them. There are many other factors that come into it though.
Hawthorne overlooked Selwood because of injury concerns and picked Thorp yet Thorp turned out to be the crock. Who would have predicted that?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

richmondrules

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Quote
In 2005, the club had no full-time recruiter
.
Is this true? If so this is the most stunning thing I have read for a long time. Who were the people responsible for this situation?


Back then we had no money. Greg Miller took on the recruiting responsibilities along with other tasks. It was the end of 2005 that Francis Jackson was hired (about 3 weeks before drafting JON IIRC so FJ really can't be held accountable for that).

There is no doubt there was a massive task confronting TW and GM had in front of them when TW arrived in 2004. Both did not survive but the situation at the RFC is far better than it was 5 years ago.

Diluted draft or not Hardwick has taken on a RFC in a far more positive state than it has been in for many decades. The scene is set for success finally.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 11:48:52 AM by RROFO »

Offline Infamy

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As has been said, Greg Beck finished up after the 2004 draft and Jackson was officially brought on as an employee of the club prior to the 2005 draft, so we didn't have one for about 11 months. Jackson was still watching the kids that year, but can't be more than one place at a time.

As for the JON decision, Miller wanted Renouf, Jackson wanted JON.

Offline yellowandback

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From memory we had 6 or 7 picks in 2003 and 2004, the numbers game doesn't work if it becomes an exercise in "garbage in garbage out". Picking up 8 or 9 picks where 6 or 7 are purely speculative hardly gives us cause for optimism. We probably will need pick up 30 kids in the next 4 or 5 drafts (with rookies on top) to start sifting through to the 10-12 players needed to support the current young talent at the club.
It's that simple Spud
"I discussed (it) with my three daughters, my wife and my 82-year-old mum, because it has really affected me … If those comments … were made about one of my daughters, it would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I would not have liked it at all.”

Offline big tone

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As has been said, Greg Beck finished up after the 2004 draft and Jackson was officially brought on as an employee of the club prior to the 2005 draft, so we didn't have one for about 11 months. Jackson was still watching the kids that year, but can't be more than one place at a time.

As for the JON decision, Miller wanted Renouf, Jackson wanted JON.
At what stage can we really judge FJ? He has been at the club for a while now, and if you take out Cotch, that was a give-me, what has he really done? I know it's to early to judge a few, Vickory and Post, but on paper and on the ladder it is not great!
IMO if a few don't come on this year, maybe we need to look elsewhere.
Thoughts?

Offline Francois Jackson

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As has been said, Greg Beck finished up after the 2004 draft and Jackson was officially brought on as an employee of the club prior to the 2005 draft, so we didn't have one for about 11 months. Jackson was still watching the kids that year, but can't be more than one place at a time.

As for the JON decision, Miller wanted Renouf, Jackson wanted JON.
At what stage can we really judge FJ? He has been at the club for a while now, and if you take out Cotch, that was a give-me, what has he really done? I know it's to early to judge a few, Vickory and Post, but on paper and on the ladder it is not great!
IMO if a few don't come on this year, maybe we need to look elsewhere.
Thoughts?


He has done nothing, nothing at all.

He was the one who was around JON, Hughes and im pretty sure was around when Howatt were recruited.

He selcted Cotch, ill give him that no brainer,  but clubs dont win flags with top 10 picks its the others that make a genuine side and to be honest he has done SFA.

Get rid of him Hardwick to complete the cleanout.
Currently a member of the Roupies, and employed by the great man Roup.

Con65

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FJ has had a pretty hard gig....imagine spending the year searching and uncovering a gem...only for the footy dept to tell you...oh sorry...pick 42 well we just traded that....oh yeah and pick # XX well dont use that cos we want to look at all the leftover kids for the psd....oh, sorry again we just traded that pick again this year too...

How many pics has he had for young 17 and 18 yos?  Overall, not that many from memory, as our team constantly traded picks away...

and for those that say only Cotch has been a success under FJ...people forget about Riewoldt, Collins, Edwards, Rance, Connors - so it is not all doom as some on here would say....

Offline Smokey

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and for those that say only Cotch has been a success under FJ...people forget about Riewoldt, Collins, Edwards, Rance, Connors - so it is not all doom as some on here would say....

And Nahas and Morton

And soon to be Vickery and Post and Browne

How dare you Con - how dare you use facts to dispute 'facts'!   :thumbsup

Offline big tone

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and for those that say only Cotch has been a success under FJ...people forget about Riewoldt, Collins, Edwards, Rance, Connors - so it is not all doom as some on here would say....

And Nahas and Morton

And soon to be Vickery and Post and Browne

How dare you Con - how dare you use facts to dispute 'facts'!   :thumbsup

Maybe jumping the gun a little on some of your successes wouldn't you think! Colins, Edwards, Connors and even Rance need to show a hell of alot more than they have to this point. So hardly a fact IMO.

Offline Smokey

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Maybe jumping the gun a little on some of your successes wouldn't you think! Colins, Edwards, Connors and even Rance need to show a hell of alot more than they have to this point. So hardly a fact IMO.

No more than those claiming Jackson has had no success.  He's been in the main job for just over 3 years and has only just been given some of the resources (full time scouts) that others have had for years.  Jumping the gun on condemning him wouldn't you think!

Offline HKTiger

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As has been said, Greg Beck finished up after the 2004 draft and Jackson was officially brought on as an employee of the club prior to the 2005 draft, so we didn't have one for about 11 months. Jackson was still watching the kids that year, but can't be more than one place at a time.

As for the JON decision, Miller wanted Renouf, Jackson wanted JON.
Renouf was recruited in Jack's year, 2006 and not 2005.

bushranger

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Ii enjoyed reading this story.
Thought it was good and true.
We may have to wait for the young one's to mature into fully fledged players like the Cats.
But I think it will be worth our wait.
If we are down the ladder next season due to our young input of drafties, well so be it.
Just wait till they are A grade players.

Hellenic Tiger

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Jackson will be judged from this years and next years draft to see whether he has the acumen to find hidden talent in a shallow and compromised draft. As Con stated he was never given full picks in a draft as under the Dried Sultana we traded all some of our picks away whereas Damian won't be giving away or draft picks. Jackson will have his chance. I just hope he makes the right choices and the club and us fans reap the benefits.

Offline Smokey

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Jackson will be judged from this years and next years draft


"should be judged" Tucker, not "will be judged".  Some have already made a judgment, albeit totally unfairly.   :thumbsup