A honest and realistic appraisal of our players.

[the claw]

okay genuine mids/onballers for now.

Cotchin- Potential A grader or very good to elite player. is still very much in development and has a long way to go to earn the right to be considered an elite player. Not even established yet.

Deledio a B grader or very good to this point should continue to get better. obviously established.

Cousins - an A grader still very good/elite trouble being hes 32 and we should be looking for his replacement already.

Foley -  while being a solid footballer i rate him a b/c grader or real solid core list player to very good. is clearly established.

Martin - like cotchin a very good to elite. i expect him to play 15 plus games, but i dont expect him to have a huge impact yet. it would be madness for anyone to expect that. atm very much a D grader or development and very much not established.

Tambling - has basically given us half a season last yr.showed he can play at the required level. imo a C grader or core list  with some reservations has only just established himself and thats being kind. he may go on to be a very good player and he may not.

thomson.- a hard one to judge  and place. while there is obvious  improvement to be had i cant place him as a C grader or  in the core list.   entering yr 6 its make or break for him so few games and some obvious weakness in his game im going to place him borderline below standard/core list and clearly not established. it would be good if he can take the next step we need some big bodied onballers.

Tuck - ah one of my favorites. but im still pulling my hair out every time he has ball in hand. has been a required player because of the dearth of big bodied and quality mids about the place. for me hes a below standard player who can perform a role.  he is established even though hes below standard. we have to do better than the tucks of the world.

Jackson - imo not a mids hole. goes hard but decision making and smarts are terrible. may have a role as a tagger its not saying much. another B/S grade but hes established.

Edwards - yep a genuine mid. entering 4th yr and has a power of work to stay on the list. footskills are poor imo and his size is a worry. im going to be kind and place him in development still. so imo a D but could go either way. obviously hes not established.

Collins - a true diamond in the rough. his development has been slow but has  all the attributes to be a core list player at worst. imo will be a B grader or very good clearly hes not established.

Contin - on the rookie list a genuine inside hard at it mid. what i have seen i like. still hes in early development or D grade we will have to wait and see with this lad.
 

[Ramps]

I reckon Contins a real chance to do a Coughlan type role. Could become a real handy player in time.

[WilliamPowell]

I reckon Contins a real chance to do a Coughlan type role.

With better foot disposal I hope 

[the claw]

Talls
Riewoldt - does have limitations in his game, i rate hime a D to C grader. that is hes still developing but will imo become like foley a solid core list player or better.
he  has not established himself as a player yet but hes getting there.

Rance - i liked him as a junior but people are right to have alarm bells ringing with this kid.
atm he lacks awareness decision making and his footskills are not up to scratch.to top it of he has shown little in one on one situations and his aetial work is wanting.

imo this kid does not have the skills to be developed as  a tall  running defender.he must be developed as an accountable kpp but does not show the required attributes to do this.
yep im concerned atm i rate him a D grader or development player borderline at that.

Moore - has had one good season in 6. has constantly struggled with injury and imo asking him to play kp has not helped.
at 189cm 86kg he really should not be playing kp at all.
while i think moore has most of the tools to play afl he is yet to display the attributes needed to play as a third tall or running back.  he just does not get involved in the game enough. your backs need hurt factor well your running backs do.
C grader   or core list player who is barely established with just one good season behind him.

Thursfield- 191cm 86kg kpd.needs bulk and needs to hold down a kp. theres just no other option with him.
he either makes it as a kpp or he is gone. gives absolutely nothing else other than defensive attributes. if hes to be a third tall he needs to dramatically improve a huge area of his game, after 5yrs i cant see it.

lets hope he gets some size about him this off season and he can hold down fb, imo a C grader  or core list player at best and is yet to truly establish himself.

Mcguane - quite simply put a trier who is not up to standard. imo a below standard B/S player or F

Vickery/Post/Griffiths/Astbury - simply put all are in early development and should not be expected to hold down a kp.
all are a long way of and are clearly D graders or development players atm. obviously none are established.

would go so far as to say while post who will play back and vickery a ruckman show lots of promise there is no guarantee that any of these boys will ultimately make it.

Polak - imo has always been a B/S or below standard player or F grade.  who after 9 yrs in the system is truly yet to establish himself. some  will argue this and without going into the many weaknesses this bloke has in his game they are entitled to their view.
in a lot of ways Polak sums up our problems with talls.  hes one of only two talls on the entire list who have 100 games behind them. so experience thru the list is limited and those talls with experience imo are below standard or no longer up to it.
mcguane and moore would both barely  have 50 plus games. for games played they are the next most experienced yet as stated mcguane is also B/S and moore imo isnt really a tall.

Grimes - neat skills and has attributes that say we should of targeted more like him. obviously a D grade or development player and just as obvious not established. like all other kids we have its to early to say if he will make it or not there are no guarantees.

Westhoff - vey skinny long term prospect D grade or development player.  not established. like grimes there are no guarantees.

Gourdis -  a raw athlete who has serious skill problem ie kicking. but like one or two other players at clubs his athleticism could make up for his poor skills ala richo or buddy. we will have a better idea at the end of this yr of where he is heading. atm for me becuase of skills ive rated him D development to BS below standard. clearly he is not established.

Graham - a real trier who gives his all. but everything i see about him tells me B/S below standard. hes needed atm because the young rucks we do have are not ready. not established but will play lots of games despite his rating.

Browne - promising ruckman but is in early development and has a ways to go no guarantees with him but his rating is D grade or development clearly not established.

there are some glaringly obvious deficiencies with our talls  structurally theres little experience  few truly established to at least core list standard and we are forced to go with to many developing types.
any way thats my take on the talls go pick it apart.

[Ox]

It's not the list,it's the lack of soul in the club.
It's the years and years of bad leadership.

[Go Richo 12]

It's not the list,it's the lack of soul in the club.
It's the years and years of bad leadership.

Ditto! We should add in the 'c' word too- culture!

[Gordon Bennett]

Honest? Yes.
realistic? From your perspective "yes", but clawfully pessimistic and negative. Your glass appears to be clalways half-empty.

[Beren]

Honest? Yes.
realistic? From your perspective "yes", but clawfully pessimistic and negative. Your glass appears to be clalways half-empty.

Yep the more things change the more they stay the same.
Heard it all before.

[Judge Roughneck]

@ Claw -


I find it interesting you Foley was one of the best players on the field at the 'all-star' game, and yet you reckon he is a 'C Grade' footballer.

More so, to call Deledio merely 'B Grade' is also a very stiff call. For a number of reasons. How many AFL footballers 23 years old or under would you consider 'A-Grade'?

Is it not possible Cousins could play at a high level for Richmond for another 3 years?

In what way has Andy Collins 'developed slowly'? He was a very late pick in '06. Breaking into the team last season and having an impact is about best as could have been hope for.


---

Reiwoldt as a 'D grader' is rather stiff. How many & who, younger KPP in the AFL do you rate ahead of him, as A / B / C grade?

I think people forget Rance did well just to come back from his head injury. Drafted in '07 and playing against people a lot older than him, he still has time of his side I would have thought.
 

[the claw]

Honest? Yes.
realistic? From your perspective "yes", but clawfully pessimistic and negative. Your glass appears to be clalways half-empty.

hmm i dont think theres anything pessimistic in that lot.  there are  negatives of course.it aint all roses with our players or do you think it is.
 you think im wrong how about you tell me which bits are wrong. if in being honest and realistic means the picture is not pretty i dont see how it can be overly negative or pessimistic or incorrect. if im right its just that being right and negative or pessimistic has nothing to do with it its just the way things are.
you tell me what bits are overly negative or pessimistic or wrong.
where do you rate each player A = elite. B = verygood. C =core list. D = development. and B/S or F =  below standard or fail.perhaps while your at it you can tell  me which players have actually established themselves as consistent at least core list players.

i did this thread to see what others actually thought in regards where each player is at,  and to see how many players and which people think are established players.
you want to criticise or label posts you could at least put up with a counter argument.

[bojangles17]

how on earth can anyone make an objective call on draft pix...plucked from the clacker and for whats its worth that's where they should remain...refer to earlier thread on draft pix to see what bollocks that is all about

[taztiger4]

okay genuine mids/onballers for now.

Contin - on the rookie list a genuine inside hard at it mid. what i have seen i like. still hes in early development or D grade we will have to wait and see with this lad.
 

Interested to know Claw,where & when have you seen Contin  ?

[the claw]

@ Claw -


I find it interesting you Foley was one of the best players on the field at the 'all-star' game, and yet you reckon he is a 'C Grade' footballer.

More so, to call Deledio merely 'B Grade' is also a very stiff call. For a number of reasons. How many AFL footballers 23 years old or under would you consider 'A-Grade'?

Is it not possible Cousins could play at a high level for Richmond for another 3 years?

In what way has Andy Collins 'developed slowly'? He was a very late pick in '06. Breaking into the team last season and having an impact is about best as could have been hope for.


---

Reiwoldt as a 'D grader' is rather stiff. How many & who, younger KPP in the AFL do you rate ahead of him, as A / B / C grade?

I think people forget Rance did well just to come back from his head injury. Drafted in '07 and playing against people a lot older than him, he still has time of his side I would have thought.
 
[/quote
foley - first. i can take numerous players who are core players who have played the odd blinder. i rated foley C/B That is  a solid consistant core list player to very good. you think hes regulary very good or elite i dont. hes played his fair share of very good games but in the main hes your run of the mill ball winning mid.

deledio - i rated a B GRADE = very good player. i also said he will get better and hence he will become elite. do you think deledio elite i dont  but i think he will get there. how many out side of the rfc would place deledio in the elite bracket atm.

Cousins - i take it your comments are about me saying we should be looking for his replacement now. i dont back down from that. even if we get another 3 yrs from cuz it will take at least 3 yrs for someone to get anywhere near his capacity. make no mistake imo we are still short of quality mids going forward.

Collins - turns 22 next yr so hes a 21 yr old mid whos played how many games. also i think hes taken awhile because of his size. a better prospect than most on the list and far better skill set. imo it has taken him awhile to break into the team and get a game.  i will concede though he should have been given more games than he has got.

Riewoldt- i believe i placed him development still. is this assesment wrong?i dont think so. for me hes shown plenty but hes hardly become a consistant footballer performing regularly at the required minimum level.imo he still has a way to go.

 as said hes getting there and i expect him to become a solid core list player at the  least. he may become very good. but for now id take his next step to be consistent solid afl player. again i think ive placed him actually where he is at i havent said he wont make it or will only ever be a C grader. the opposite.
theres a lot of under 23 kpps i would place in the same boat or similar. tippett is one who comes to mind clarke another.
is kruezer an  A grader no but what hes given so far but thats not to say im not impressed and think he may  or at least become very good.

Rance - hmm i placed in the D category what hes not in development. i have concerns about him because of deficiencies in his game. he is a poor kick his decision making has been poor his awareness is not where it should be. and he has not been good in the air or in one on ones. if this continues he wont make it. hes had just two yrs and he does have some time to turn things around. in an ideal world he would go back to coburg for a good stint to work on these aspects  of his game. i make no apologies for rance. even with all those concerns have i  not written him of.

[the claw]

okay genuine mids/onballers for now.

Contin - on the rookie list a genuine inside hard at it mid. what i have seen i like. still hes in early development or D grade we will have to wait and see with this lad.
 

Interested to know Claw,where & when have you seen Contin  ?

my cousin was quite keen on him i havent seen him live but ive seen a few tapes on him. cousin was no2 in recruiting at an afl club  and still takes a huge interest in the kids.

[Ramps]

i agree with claw that Riewoldt is still a d class player. we over rate our players by a long way. to even get to b grade status Riewoldt needs to 50 goals and to get to a grade status the tally needs to get to 65goals + per season regularly.