A honest and realistic appraisal of our players.

[Stripes]

By the way great thread claw! Interesting to debate speculatively at this time of year! 

I'm looking forward to seeing what a difference our new coach/s have made to our list initially. We have been a team of individuals for almost a decade - Richo exemplified this with his amazing talent but lack of defensive game etc - so with better structures, a clear game plan and a team focused mentality I believe individuals will start to shine. Players can not do it alone, they need support and confidence in each other and their actions.

I think we will find many players will step up this year using the new game plan and structures as the base they needed to build upon.

Stripes

[the claw]

okay thought i had better do the rest and finish this.
small/med  fwds and backs, flankers.etc
  
Dea/Taylor/ Hicks/ Oreilly - to make it easy simply put all are D rated that is in development and clearly not established.
i hope Tylor and Dea get some games this yr as part of their education.

Roberts - boy a difficult one. in terms of age and player type by 23 you would normally expect him to be established at least core list by now.
imo  a D or development player but short term development.obviously he has to learn at afl level.but he doesnt want to take his time in doing so. im hoping at 23 he can quickly come to terms of afl and quickly establish himself clearly the club is hoping the same.

Webberley - a little like roberts but would have more time up his sleeve to prove himself. despite being 21 i rate him D or development the little ive seen he looks a player.

Nason - another small player a 20 yr old who meets all the skillset requirements but has done little was playing ressies in the sanfl. im going to rate him a D or development player obviously hes not established.

one thing at this point does stand out all of the players taken this yr have good skills apart from maybe hicks.

Connors - make or break yr for him. has the skills but has done little. im not going to be kind and place him solely in development. to me hes D and below standaerd B/S atm based on performance output. clearly not established.

Hislop - hard at it 21 22 yr old. like connors make or break yr to me hes currently B/S OR below standard. kicking and pace are two major concerns. not established.

King - too small too dumb and unskilled. B/S or below standard.

Mcmahon - skinny outside player who crumbles under pressure with no defensive side to his game. the best i can say for him is at the right club he could play a role i suppose. for me and us B/S or below standard.
i still cant believe we went thru hell and then traded the pp we gave blood to get for this bloke.

Morton - many tiger supporters  rate him  highly. i still have concerns. but playing as a small med forward and kicking 42 goals one cant complain. his game lacks in several areas and im only going to place him in the C or core player group for now. i think he can become  a B  or very good player.also imo hes only just established himself.

Polo - sorry polo fans but i dont get it with this bloke.with out going into a rant imo hes B/S or below standard. and still not established. its the polos we have to improve on hopefully someone like Matt Dea is that improvement.

White - another easily definable B/S or below standard player. just does not have the skill set.

Gilligan - 2nd yr rookie D or development and not established.

[bojangles17]

i agree with claw that Riewoldt is still a d class player. we over rate our players by a long way. to even get to b grade status Riewoldt needs to 50 goals and to get to a grade status the tally needs to get to 65goals + per season regularly.

d class players arent capable of taking 14 marks and bagging 7 g in a senior game...D grade would infer not really up to remaining on a senior list...which is well off the mark when you consider he is 20 and came off kicking 30-40g last year...get it right

[the claw]

i agree with claw that Riewoldt is still a d class player. we over rate our players by a long way. to even get to b grade status Riewoldt needs to 50 goals and to get to a grade status the tally needs to get to 65goals + per season regularly.

d class players arent capable of taking 14 marks and bagging 7 g in a senior game...D grade would infer not really up to remaining on a senior list...which is well off the mark when you consider he is 20 and came off kicking 30-40g last year...get it right

lol D grade has been mentioned how many times and nearly every time in relation to development just goes to show some just dont read.
what were the comments oh yeah. hes  a D to C grader. that is he is still developing but will become like foley a solid core list player or better.now i could elaborate further but your not interested i wont waste my time.
i think it also went he has not established himself as a  player but hes getting there. that is hes inconsistant plays some good ones and plays some bad ones.  sheesh i wonder who  needs to get it right.

just for you seeing as you find it hard to understand or your having trouble seeing  heres the rating scale again in bold for those dodgy eyes..
A = ELITE , B = VERY GOOD, C CORE GROUP, D DEVELOPMENT. B/S BELOW STANDARD.

so i take it you dont think jack is still in development or still developing.  am i to assume  hes truly established also.
 based on what oh yeah he managed to kick 7 in a game once.
i tell ya what just for you to stop the whining i will rate an A.

hmm  a bloke called schulz took how many marks and kicked how many goals in a game once. i wonder just where you would rate him in the scheme of things.
 not likely to find out though are we. seems your reluctant to rate anyone. no theres no putting it out there for you. youll just sit back and play dumb. cmon im interested and im sure most on here are as well to hear exactly where you rate our players  and see who you think is established at least core list. cmon no one is going to laugh at ya.sheesh people may even do you the courtesy of actually reading your post correctly and not play silly buggers.

[Judge Roughneck]

Not saying Jack's anywhere near where he want him to be but I'd give him slack. It must have been a nightmare playing as a key forward the way we moved the ball and with little KP support around him so he often got the best defender. 32.27 isn't a great return and he needs to work on his kicking penetration big time to improve his accuracy but still it's a respectable return for a tall forward in his 3rd year playing in a crap side that often had half the number of inside 50s as our opponents. He's way ahead of his 2006 draft KP peers.

Apart from that I don't disagree too much with the rest of Claw's rankings based on our 2009. Not too many Tigers could hold their head up after the year they had.

 

[the claw]

have bought this up more in reply to rank the midfield thread than anything. will get into it soon.

same ratings apply
A - elite. B - very good. C - core group. D - development. B/S - below standard.
please note people a D rating does not mean fail or dud. it applies to junior players who are exactly that in early development.i tend to dump development players in this category regardless. in saying this you can still judge many factors.
 you could dump any kid taken from 07 onwards into the development category.
blokes like dustin martin who look elite in every way may not make it or to word it a bit better he is yet to establish himself. in the overall scheme of things hes done little but as a first yr player he has done much.

certain things determine a rating.  weather a player has truly established himself in the afl. its not just about a player establishing themselves  to at least core list standard. but has a player  established himself in the category hes placed in. over all performance, 2010 performance. strenght and weakness. experience, games played, age, potential. all come into play.
any way like i said soon.

[bojangles17]

how do you see the d grade rating of jack in Jan this year, little off beam wouldn't you say for the reigning Coleman medalist. Can't wait for the next installment , another bunch of doozies no doubt

[the claw]

how do you see the d grade rating of jack in Jan this year, little off beam wouldn't you say for the reigning Coleman medalist. Can't wait for the next installment , another bunch of doozies no doubt

no i reckon the rating spot on at the start of 2010.

i have defended jack on all sites . go have a look at  riewoldt threads. a lot of people were putting boots into him prior to this yr. i thought his progress more than passable.but at the end of 2009 the rating was still in development.   i placed him there because he actually was still a junior undersized inconsistant  and in development.
 he was good at times and very poor  at times.he had p[arts of his game that had to improve for him to continue to improve.
  i have said he has continued to improve every yr i defended him in the sense of his size performance and potential.
 he was always going to be inconsistent and struggle at times because of the physical aspect.if you look at posts i have done on him you will see have stated much of his improvement has come from his size improvement. he can now compete physically but he still has some work to do in this area.
  i did say i thought jack would be at the  least core to very good in time, but atm he is still in development. what part of this you cant understand has me bewildered.
 if you actually read  posts you would know this.
 to finish of jack is still in development especially for a tall. but while in development he has established himself to a degree as a bona fide afl player who may become very good  (some will argue hes already very good) to elite if he can string together another 2 or 3 seasons like this one. and improve a couple of areas of his game.

where would i classify jack atm well thats easy. c to b, or core to very good.yet in many ways he is still very much developing. the good thing about jack he has taken it up a notch every yr.
with all of the above i have never said any different yet you try to paint a picture of me putting him down.
 if i was basing my rating on just 2010 you would have to give him at the  least a b rating or very good. but im not  doing that. he had a very good season i dont believe anyone can argue that. but one season does not make a player or a reliable rating. hes had one great yr for a 21 yr old but if he really struggles for the next two where do you put him. very good to elite players are consistant and the gap between good and bad is not to great. jacks task to me to prove himself is consitently playing to a high standard and finding a way to make decent  contributions when getting beat.

i have given you the courtesey of answering your question honestly even though you regularly try to take the pee.now answer one in return.
 where was jack at at the start of 2010 iyo.
 was he established was he consistant  did he have weaknesses. did  you think him not still in development.
i have said hes still develeping and in  in all likelyhood  to be at least a core list player with a good chance of him becoming very good. no matter how you try to twist it this is what i wrote.

to me you have taken this debate to a point scoring exercise ignoring whats actually  written all because you dislike what i have to say. you dont have the balls to put your own ratings up prefereing to take cheap shots.

[mightytiges]

Probably harsh but here goes as a quick ranking ......

A - Lids, Jack

B - Martin, Cotch, Newy, Moore, Foley (if injury free)

C - Grigg, Edwards (C+), Houli, Farmer, McGuane, Connors, Morton, Tuck (C+), Jacko (C+), Gus, King, White, O'Reilly, Webberley, Nason

D - Thursty, Rance, Nahas, Gourdis, Hislop#, Miller#
      Vickery, Post, Griffiths, Astbury, Conca, Batchelor, Helbig, McDonald, Derickx, Dea, Taylor, Hicks, Grimes, Contin#, Westhoff#

[Coach]

Probably harsh but here goes as a quick ranking ......

A - Lids, Jack

B - Martin, Cotch, Newy, Moore, Foley (if injury free)

C - Grigg, Edwards (C+), Houli, Farmer, McGuane, Connors, Morton, Tuck (C+), Jacko (C+), Gus, King, White, O'Reilly, Webberley, Nason

D - Thursty, Rance, Nahas, Gourdis, Hislop#, Miller#
      Vickery, Post, Griffiths, Astbury, Conca, Batchelor, Helbig, McDonald, Derickx, Dea, Taylor, Hicks, Grimes, Contin#, Westhoff#

Fair call there, MT. Agree with most of that but I reckon Astbury is a C grader. I think he definitely showed more than what O'Reilly, Nason (who is a D grader for mine) and Webbers did in their first season. I'd rate him higher than Farmer too. The kid looks like he'll finish up being a quality swingman.

[Fruity Morgan]

Right now I would put a huge question mark over Foley.  I think most people are rating him on his tremendous form a couple of years ago.  We need to wait and see.

[Infamy]

I'd have it a bit differently

A - Lids, Foley (if injury free)

B - Martin, Cotch, Newy, Moore, Jack (B++ doesn't need to improve in 2011, but just needs to back up his season then I'll put him up in the A section)

C - Astbury, Grigg, Edwards (C+), Houli, McGuane, Connors, Morton, Tuck, Jacko, Gus, King, White, Nason, Thursty, Miller#

D - Farmer, Rance, Webberley, O'Reilly, Nahas, Gourdis, Hislop#, Vickery, Post, Griffiths, Conca, Batchelor, Helbig, McDonald, Derickx, Dea, Taylor, Hicks, Grimes, Contin#, Westhoff#

[mightytiges]

Bump.

Appraisal of our players now?

A - Cotch, Lids, Jack

B - Maric (B+: an A if he backs it up this year), Grimes, Martin, Grigg, Rance, Tuck, Chaplin, Foley, Newy (B-: post-30), Houli (B-), S.Edwards (B-), Conca (B-), Morris (B-)

C - Nahas (C+), King (C+), Jacko (C+), Vickery (B on 2011 form), Knights (B if injury free), Ellis, Batch, Griffiths, Astbury, Dea, Helbig, A.Edwards, Petterd, Stephenson

D - McGuane, White, Derickx, Lonergan

1 year or less cubs/unknowns: Vlastuin, McIntosh, McBean, McDonough, Elton, Arnot, O'Hanlon, Darrou, Verrier, Simon


We'll obviously be hoping a few of the younger B- & C cubs step up a grade this year for us to play finals.


ps. Claw's analysis from 3 years ago wasn't the worst out there by any means looking back btw.

[Chuck17]

ps. Claw's analysis from 3 years ago wasn't the worst out there by any means looking back btw.

For grammar, punctuation, sentence structure and general readability I gave it an F

[dwaino]

ps. Claw's analysis from 3 years ago wasn't the worst out there by any means looking back btw.

For grammar, punctuation, sentence structure and general readability I gave it an F

3 years. Richmond will make finals sooner than craw will post anything legible enough to comprehend.