Tanking verses Belief, Structure and Faith?

[TigerLand]

I know a lot on here are big on tanking for draft picks and how stupid it would be to finish 15th by a game and go from pick 4 to 8.

Seeing our form of late would you rather see the likes of Riewoldt, Nason, Martin, Cotchin etc been given free reign to go about there business and perform at their best and win a few games and prove to the playing group and supporters our game plan has weight going into the pre season with confidence.

Or would you rather we put the cue in the rack not play these players, but play McMahon, Polak, Dea, Gourdis, Roberts etc. and plan to fail?

[wayne]

I just want them to go out and play. If they win they win.

We're going to come up against some absolute rubbish in the final 12 rounds (Power and Crows in Melb, Kangas, Demons and Lions are winnable).

The way we're going, we could also cause an upset of a top 8 side if they're off their game.

[Ramps]

Really good draft this year. Even if we win games and lose out on say pick 4 and we end up with say pick 6 or even pick 8 you can still end up with a  good kid with good skills ie who can fill a position where we have a need. Blayne Wilson from WA etc etc. Even down the draft order you may be able to get some decent kids like Kiefer Yu etc etc. I'd like us to win some more games if we can.

[Francois Jackson]

you can lose by a small margin and still have belief, structure and faith. just look at what the dees did and the blues.

everyone knew that by going down by a small margin most weeks they still had the belief they were going places.

same should apply here but moreso next year if we win less than 5 this year.

if it comes down the end of the season in a game that decides Pick 4 then i would seriously hope we adjust our line up accordingly.

You may say whats the difference between Pick 4 or Pick 5 well not a lot but we may miss out on the next Martin because of one pick in the draft.

You dont want to think you are better than what you actually are thereby opting to top up instead of drafting kids. e.g Brisbane

[cub]

Crap mentality, first and foremost no spoons! It is an embarrassment of monumental proportion. Leave that stuff for the Saints of the world in my book. Never want to see another spoon at Richmond in my life! Literally makes me sick in the guts.
Really dont give this, 'that pick' 'this pick' too much credence.
Would we of ended up with Martin if we didn't beat the Demons last year? Scully and Trengrove look the goods but I wouldn't give up Martin for quids. You can make up a million scenarios for/against just don't cut it here.
I go to every game expecting the boys to give their best and hope and cheer for a win evrytime I go.
Que sera ! Just go out to WIN 

[WilliamPowell]

I just want them to go out and play. If they win they win.

Got it in one 

[mat073]

The million dollar question is how many wins are required to collect the spoon.

If its 4...then forget it....Bye bye pick 4.

Not sure if I am still caught up in the euphoria of Sundays magnificent victory but I would think we are a good chance to win half our remaining ten games.

Richmond could very well finish the season with a record of 7-15.

[tony_montana]

The way we are playing we will win more than 4 games for better or worse.

Personally i feel that either way we will improve but would prefer list mangemnt mode this season and next to load up on talent to really push in 3 years time but it looks like we'll go earlier - will we have the cattle to be anything more than a midtable essendon/kangaroos?  (for mine, no, but others think otherwise)

[RollsRoyce]

I know there are some around here who will be horrified by this, but I say "let's keep winning". The more the better.
When all the doomsayers were saying we had the worst list in the competition, I bit my tongue and bided my time. It's my belief that the only thing wrong with our current list is inexperience.
I think our recruiters absolutely nailed the 09 draft with Martin, Nason, Astbury, Griffiths, Farmer and Webberley all reaping results in the seniors, Taylor, O'Reilly,Roberts and Hicks progressing nicely at Coburg, and Westhoff, Grimes and Contin showing great potential in the Burgers seconds.
When you add these players to the likes of Lids, Cotchin, Foley, Jack, and Newman to name just a few, I think we already have the makings of a list that will be ready to challenge the very best sooner rather than later.
I think the scope for huge improvement is already on our playing list. And we should be putting games into all our kids and having a real tilt at our enemies, instead of throwing games to slide a few pegs down in the draft order.       

[jackstar is back again]

Crap mentality, first and foremost no spoons! It is an embarrassment of monumental proportion. Leave that stuff for the Saints of the world in my book. Never want to see another spoon at Richmond in my life! Literally makes me sick in the guts.
Really dont give this, 'that pick' 'this pick' too much credence.
Would we of ended up with Martin if we didn't beat the Demons last year? Scully and Trengrove look the goods but I wouldn't give up Martin for quids. You can make up a million scenarios for/against just don't cut it here.
I go to every game expecting the boys to give their best and hope and cheer for a win evrytime I go.
Que sera ! Just go out to WIN 

Agree

[Infamy]

I still think we need to play all those players on the cusp to figure out if they stay next year.
Play all of Polak, Polo, Thomson, Morton, Nahas, Thursfield, King & White, figure out if they should be kept, traded or delisted

Also get more games into Taylor, Post, Browne, Gourdis, Roberts, Grimes & Rance
We're supposed to be planning for the future and getting games into these players is what this transformation is meant to be about.

If we win playing these guys then the future is looking pretty good, if we lose, then at least we are developing our kids and analysing the list. 4 wins will result in 3 Top 30 selections in the draft which can only help moving forward.

[3rogerd]

you cant beat singing that song after a a win.

[yellowandback]

I think the term "tanking" is outdated.

The bottom line is that we are not going to put a side that will be geared just to win in the last 2 months of the year.

Younger players will be rested, older players will be put into cotton wool (what few we have and those who have niggles) and others who have not had a go will be given a few games to see if they are worth keeping on the list.

Players will also be tried in different positions to understand what they might be capable of doing in seasons to come.

Nothing wrong with that but it might result in winning 3 or 4 games instead of 7 or 8.

Wins are not relevant in that context - they are a bonus.

Judging a team by their win or loss record at our stage of development in isolation of the above factors is simplistic and irrelevant to some extent.

There is no much point having intent if you don't understand capability.

[Stripes]

I'd love it if we played out the year battling out close loses and sneaking in the rare win while watching our young players grow and come together as a team. That is my hope for the year because it will assure us of more quality players to top up the list with next year so we have a full list of talent and/or potential and not disappointments or stalled players.

Ultimately we are about winning finals and flags. We will not remember wins but we will remember multiple 10 year players. I don't think we should tank but just as yellowandblack has suggested we need to see our full list play to determine who will make it beyond this year. We know Lids, Cotchin, Martin and co. are in our long term plans but what about Browne, Polo, Roberts, Gilligan or Gourdis? What positions does Tambling, King, Tuck and even Astbury play there best footy? All these questions should be answered this year rather than when we are marching up the ladder.

If we are doing what is suggested above and still winning games well then who am I to argue that we made a mistake liftig from the bottom of the ladder? Our list would be obviously in a very good position already.

Stripes

[Rodgerramjet]

I just want them to go out and play. If they win they win.

Got it in one 

Yes, there really isnt anything else to say other than that.