Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick

[1965]

I dont know about you guys But once that ball is bounced I find it almost impossible to hope for anything other than a Tiger victory.

However there is only five rounds to go and we are entering the "Junk Time" of the season.Any victory now must be taken with a grain of salt.No point getting hysterical when we endure heavy defeats like last Saturday either.

Over the last two years we have seen the value of meaningless wins.We won the last 3 games of 2008.WCE won 4 of their last 5 last year.The result is supporters spend the following off season living in a "fools paradise".I certainly spent all of summer 08/09 with delusions of grandeur.

My wish list for the remainder of 2010.

(A) Jack Riewoldt to win the Coleman medal

(B) West Coast to collect their first wooden spoon....You have to be an ex Victorian living in Perth to understand how wonderful this would be.

(C) Richmond to finish 15th.  

(D) Collingwood to lose the Grand Final by a point after being 10 goals up at 3/4 time

 

[Judge Roughneck]

E. Buddy overdose on ice

[Penelope]

So round and round it goes where it ends no body knows.

It's obvious that some people will never understand what tanking actually is.
There are a small number who dounderstan, yet are more than happy to cheat. These are the sort of people who risk getting shot in card games.

Then there are the poo stirrers.

The big difference in the way I view things is that if we lose, i take consolation in the fact that it could lead to higher draft picks, some though, do do seem to actually take delight in the loss. Something I cant fathom myself, the idea of barracking for the enemy is just so foreign to me.

It's interesting how some 'pro tankers' are also those that sook the most when we loose, or over selections/non selections of certain players.

"We've put the cue in the rack". what does that mean? the players aren't trying?

The simple FACT    ( ) is that we will still finish near the bottom of the ladder without breaking any rules or sinking to the depths of Carlton. People that put little substance on integrity probably don't have much themselves.

Meaningless wins is a good one. if you want to get fair dinkum about what a win means, if you dont win the premiership, then all wins you may have in the season are meaningless.

Anyone that thinks the run of wins we had were meaningless would be at odds, I feel , with the playing group and coaching staff. Anyone that thinks that continually getting beaten does not negatively affect your confidence in your own ability, the team and the coaches, let alone the whole spirit and culture of the club has obviously not played in a side that continually gets beaten.

Then there's the winning culture stupidity.

A winning culture is not a culture developed by winning. A winning culture is a culture that will lead to winning.

Hardwick is installing exactly that sort of culture in this club and that is why when the football gods smiled on us for a month and a bit the team was able to actually take advantage and notch a few morale building wins.

I've very little doubt that the selfish, front running, down hill skiing, pea hearted Richmond of recent years would not have grabbed all of those wins under those circumstances.

[RollsRoyce]

 

Factually incorrect - how do you think they got Thomas and Pendlebury? Yep - They tanked!

I don't know the exact details of their draft picks, I really don't follow anyone but us all that closely. But as far as I remember, they haven't finished outside the eight for between 5-10 years (due in part to the dream draw the AFL gifts them every year). So how could they have tanked to get John Thomas and effleberry?
Seems to me, the only way they could possibly get amongst high end draft picks would be to trade off rubbish players to lower clubs stupid enough to swap away their picks.   

wrong. In 2004 and 2005, Collingwood finished 13th and 15th. in 2005 they recieved a priority draft which they used to pick dale thomas and with draft pick number2 they picked up pendlebury

remebering pre-2006 Priority draft rules. The Priority Round is at the beginning of the draft, before the First Round. Teams will gain a selection in the Priority Round if they finish the season with fewer than 20.5 premiership points (wins are worth four points, draws are worth two points).

OK, I stand corrected. As I say, my memory of what other clubs do can be pretty sketchy. The Black and White maggots just seem to be thereabouts every year coz they consistently get given such an armchair ride to September. But I still stand by my original statement that they haven't had as many high draft picks as us, yet have progressed a hell of a lot further. Probably because they didn't waste their picks on duds like Tambling, Meyer, JON,Patto, Hughes and Pettifer. 

[Gordon Bennett]

OK, I stand corrected. As I say, my memory of what other clubs do can be pretty sketchy. The Black and White maggots just seem to be thereabouts every year coz they consistently get given such an armchair ride to September. But I still stand by my original statement that they haven't had as many high draft picks as us, yet have progressed a hell of a lot further. Probably because they didn't waste their picks on duds like Tambling, Meyer, JON,Patto, Hughes and Pettifer. 

What? What about early picks like Danny Roach and Chris Egan, or trades like Cameron Wood?

Danny Stanley?Ryan Cook? Nathan Brown (pick 8 or 10, taken before Riewoldt)? The two older Cloke brothers?

All clubs waste picks.

[pmac21]

Cue in the rack means that although they go out to win they will be trying players in different positions or playing players from Coburg to see if they are required !!  Players with small injuries will be rested or put on ice i.e Moore, White, Thursfield.
Mate, that is cue in the rack stuff so dont get all emotional about the term.

[camboon]

West Coast play Brisbane next week - you would think one of them would win and either way it would suggest one of them will move up the ladder.

That doesnt mean we wont win and move up as well - interesting.

[Gordon Bennett]

West Coast play Brisbane this week -

no, it is Freo

[Penelope]

Cue in the rack means that although they go out to win they will be trying players in different positions or playing players from Coburg to see if they are required !!  Players with small injuries will be rested or put on ice i.e Moore, White, Thursfield.
Mate, that is cue in the rack stuff so don't get all emotional about the term.

So cue in the rack is another way of saying smart long term list management? I always thought when you put the cue in the rack you had basically given up or finished? The term must have a different origin than billiards or snooker I suppose.

[RollsRoyce]

OK, I stand corrected. As I say, my memory of what other clubs do can be pretty sketchy. The Black and White maggots just seem to be thereabouts every year coz they consistently get given such an armchair ride to September. But I still stand by my original statement that they haven't had as many high draft picks as us, yet have progressed a hell of a lot further. Probably because they didn't waste their picks on duds like Tambling, Meyer, JON,Patto, Hughes and Pettifer.  

What? What about early picks like Danny Roach and Chris Egan, or trades like Cameron Wood?

Danny Stanley?Ryan Cook? Nathan Brown (pick 8 or 10, taken before Riewoldt)? The two older Cloke brothers?

All clubs waste picks.

Aaarrgghh!! I'm just trying to make a fairly obvious point here, and people keep nit-picking on specifics. My point is this: A lot of people on here argue that the ONLY way to long-term success is to stay down for several years and load up on early draft picks. But neither Geelong or Collingwood have done this. Sure, Geelong have been luckier than most clubs with quality father-son picks, and the AFL manipulates the fixture to ensure Collingwood a smooth run to September. But I'm sure that our list has more top 10 draft picks on it than either of these clubs, yet is still way behind them both.    



Edit: fixed quoting

[Judge Roughneck]

Pies tanked in 05 to collect two key players in the teamnow

we got Jon with out one top ten pick

[Chuck17]

Talking of JON how is he going at WCE?

Anyone?, Y&B?

[1965]

Talking of JON how is he going at WCE?

Anyone?, Y&B?

http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=1719.msg199367#msg199367

 

[mat073]

Talking of JON how is he going at WCE?

Anyone?, Y&B?

JON kicked 6.1 for East Perth on the weekend. 

Woosha mentioned him on the radio last night as a possible inclusion . 

JON has kicked 15 goals in 16 games at WAFL level this year. 

[mightytiges]

I can't believe this. You're actually willing us to fail, and finish bottom. If this is what sport has come to, I don't want to be a part of it. Honestly MT, didn't you enjoy that 5-6 week golden run, when we were knocking off giants, believing we could, and feeling like anything was possible?

Quite the opposite RR. I'm actually willing us to succeed in the long run. Success is only measured by premierships; not 5-6 "feelgood" weeks when there's no chance of finals before copping a massive reality check from Magpie scum dancing and shimmeying after goals right in our face  .

Didn't you get caught up in the euphoria?

Nup. While I was wrapt to see our young cubs progressing and playing good footy as a team and us actually playing exciting footy to watch, I have a long-term view on where we are at and where we need to get to. We are still miles away as proven on the weekend. I'm old enough to still remember when genuine euphoria to Tiger supporters was winning big games, finals and flags. I don't want 30 years of pain and failure to become 40, 50, etc years thanks to more "ninths".

Or were you too busy worrying whether it would mean that we'd get pick 5 or 6 instead of 4 in a compromised draft?
Were you relieved when we blew the chance against Nth to climb up to 11th? I was disgusted that instead we remained anchored to 15th, with the Eagles creeping a game closer to relegating us once more to the humiliation of another wooden spoon.
But then, I forgot that the aim of sport is all about losing these days.

I didn't design the draft system RR. Blame the AFL. It's just that after so many years where we'd finish ninth or thereabouts and miss out on finals yet get punished by the draft system, I've had enough and say let's use the system to our best possible advantage and give our recruiters the best chance to bring in the best talented kids at each round of the draft. Play the 'game' as other clubs have and do. I mean we haven't played finals in 9 years and I think that's twice as long as the next worst club and just twice in the past 28 yet other clubs were rewarded in recent years time and time again at the draft table for just one or two bad years after making finals. Makes ya sick! 

Was I relieved we didn't rise to 11th? You betcha! Fools good especially in a compromised draft where finishing midladder equates to no first round pick in a normal draft. It would've been recruiting suicide for where we are in our rebuild.

If staying down for years to collect draft picks is the answer to success, then how come  Collingwood were able to demolish us so comprehensively without ever finishing low enough to secure high draft picks?
Answer: They made do with the picks they've been given, and built a side on belief. Now I have to go and shower in liquid nitrogen. I feel so dirty after complimenting that SCUM.   

As mentioned by others Collingwood tanked in 2005 after a poor 2004. They put all their senior players in cotton wool in the second half of the year so they could get a pre-first round priority pick and two picks inside the top 5 of draft. 

Most clubs understood the draft system doesn't help the perennial crap clubs with poor lists. It helps the clubs with a well maintained solid quality playing core the most where you can replenish it with quality youth by bottoming out during a couple of poor years before rising up again.

When did Richmond last maintain a solid quality core of players to build around? 1995 perhaps and then we didn't build around then with youth which caused the last 9 years and counting of crap where we've had to rebuild from scratch . In 20 years of the draft Richmond never understood the system. Even last year we stupidly won more than 4 games which would have given us a chance of picks 4 and 6 this year had we kept our wins to four. Two and a half extra wins against ordinary sides for what? A missed opportunity. Let's not now totally stuff it up by ending up with no early picks come November. No one will remember any of our wins this year in 3-5 plus years time but they will remember a top 5 kid who stars for us for the next decade alongside our other top picks in Martin, Cotch, Lids and Jack. Let's build a strong quality A-grade core surrounded by decent list depth who will lead us to our next premiership inside the next 6 years if we do this properly.


ps. RR ask our friendly wise godmother of the RFC at training where she wants us to finish this year