Author Topic: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick  (Read 19976 times)

tony_montana

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #75 on: August 01, 2010, 11:22:32 AM »

hawthorn tanked...


Really?  What year(s) would that be in?


2004/2005 thought that was obvious?


I would be interested to know just when in season 2004 that you think Hawthorn made the decision to tank?  Would it have been around halfway through when they were on the bottom of the ladder with 2 wins from 11 games and a percentage of 75.1% or would it have been much earlier than that (remembering of course that this was the season that cost their coach his job)?  It certainly couldn't have been any later because that position right there tells me that they were absolute crap anyway and didn't have to change one single thing to end up where they did.  And remember that this was the year when their coach told all and sundry during the pre-season that they would "win the premiership"!  If they were tanking then why did they beat us so convincingly in Round 21 and consign themselves to the 2nd pick instead of the 'coveted' 1st pick?  So just when did this team sitting on the bottom of the ladder halfway through a 'premiership winning' season decide to change it's tack and deliberately lose games?

And when in 2005 exactly did they start?  Remember this was Clarkson's first year in which he conducted a major cleanout of players and introduced a completely different gameplan and work ethic to a very young and inexperienced list.  Sound familiar to another team currently sitting 15th who has just recently been described by many experts as the worst ever in the history of the competition?  If they were tanking then why did they beat the team below them in Round 17 to effectively end their chance of finishing with the 1st pick?  Tanking teams do not give up those 'prized' picks 1 or 2 places higher without a serious fight.  Halfway through the season Hawthorn were 15th with 3 wins and a percentage of 96%, by season's end they were 14th with 5 wins and a percentage of 82%.  Hhhmm, a young inexperienced side with a new coach learning a completely different (and unique at the time) gameplan improved it's ladder position in the 2nd half of the season despite winning less games and dropping significant percentage.  Yep, some real tanking indicators right there, nothing at all to do with the reality of how capable and good they were at the time.

Quote

as for your second comment, i cannot believe you are serious. You need to learn to walk before you run, how about getting the talent to be thereabts and "in the game" before starting to think premierships? At least it fast tracks them to get into a position were they can strike at a flag. Hawthorn got it all right with their development and did it quick, carlton and melbourne may not win a flag but they've assembled the talent from which to load a shot at a flag in te next few yrs which is more than can be said about our dud club!
Tanking isnt as black or white as win or lose a flag, its about giving smart clubs the opportunity to fastrack improvement and put them in the mix, once there its up to coaching/development/injuries some intangibles and a little bit of luck to take you all the way


Walk before you run?  How about teaching the players you have, to walk before they run?  You might find it interesting to know that in Clarkson's first 3 years in charge he turned over 21 players from his starting list.  During the same 3 years Richmond turned over 24 players.  Clarkson had 8 Top 20 picks in his 1st 3 years (end 04, end 05, end 06), Richmond had 7.  So in spite of both clubs starting from similar ladder positions, new coaching groups, similar high draft picks and significant list cleanouts, one team went on to win a flag while the other has had zero success and not improved one iota.  And you would have me believe that this was because Hawthorn supposedly tanked in 04/05?  Winning flags is all about those "intangibles" you mention in passing and nothing to do with the number of high draft picks you receive - that is the reality of it.  Those "intangibles" are the core of it but sadly the tanking proponents allow themselves to be blinded by the lure of the quick fix and easy road.

about hawthorn in 04 and 05, in a nutshell they realised halfway through the season they didn't have the cattle to win a flag, so they took action. People kept saying that we beat hawthorn to Walace but that is rubbish, they had a clear plan in place to load up on cattle, take short term pain for long term gain and boy did they get that right, they wanted Clarko bc his philosophies fit their plans. Hawthorn is a perfect example of a club that knew where they were at, what they needed and milked the system to get it. A deluded club like ours where we finish bottom in 04 and then again in 09 shows we didnt embrace it or weren't willing to face up to the fact tat we just didnt have the cattle. Yes we got 5 top 20 picks in 04 and if we had of got them right I'm sure we wouldnt be in this predicament but fact is we ddnt get them right so need to get it right now.

tony_montana

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2010, 11:32:34 AM »
:lol
it seems that every side that has finished last has "tanked"
 :ROTFL


Isn't that the truth Al!  I wonder if other clubs will look back on us in a few years time saying we tanked in 04, 07, 09 and 10?

No they won't because here's the difference..... Notice how clubs like carlton and melboure did it 2-3 years in a row making sure they won less than the required games to get a couple of PP's including an extra top end draft pick in year 2? We on the other hand win more than 4 last season and do it again this season. You just have to lol a the stupidity  :banghead, tell me again what possible benefit did we get out of winning more than 4 gams last season? was it the fact we blew a golden gimme opportunity to land a player like BASTINAC for free? Looking at where we are at this season on 5 wins, whts the difference if we finished on 4 wins and land picks 4 and 6? I can guarantee Hawthorn, Carlton and melboure would have manufactured it to turn out this way, I mean we are in rebuild mode anyhow for FFS and will only win 10-11 games over these 2 seasons anyhow, so just make it 8 and get yourself an extra couple of potential A-graders. End of issue and then we have the cattle to start moving on up the ladder once and for all.

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #77 on: August 01, 2010, 11:38:56 AM »
:lol
it seems that every side that has finished last has "tanked"
 :ROTFL


Isn't that the truth Al!  I wonder if other clubs will look back on us in a few years time saying we tanked in 04, 07, 09 and 10?

No they won't because here's the difference..... Notice how clubs like carlton and melboure did it 2-3 years in a row making sure they won less than the required games to get a couple of PP's including an extra top end draft pick in year 2? We on the other hand win more than 4 last seasonand do it again thi season. You just have to lol a thestupidity, tell me again what possible benefit did we get out of winnin more than 4 gams last season? was it the fact we blew a golden gimme opportunity to land a player like BASTINAC for free? Looking at where we are at this season on 5 wins, whts the difference i we finished on 4 wins and land picks 4 and 6? I can guarantee Hawthorn, Carlton and melboure would have manufactured it to turn out this way, I mean we are in rebuild moe anyhow for FFS and wil only win 10-11 games over these 2 season so just make it 8 and get yourself an extra couple of potential A-graders. End of isse ad then we have the cattle to start moving on up the ladder once and for all.

Great post. FWIW TM i think if Dimma was our coach last year, in the last uncompromised draft for a few years we would have seen a different win/loss ratio that what we saw under Wallet.

I have no doubt that he would have had the brains to engineer a loss against the Bombers and demons. No doubt.

Leather face was holding onto what little hope he had left to hold the position next year therefore trying to win at all costs.
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #78 on: August 01, 2010, 11:39:39 AM »

hawthorn tanked...


Really?  What year(s) would that be in?


2004/2005 thought that was obvious?


I would be interested to know just when in season 2004 that you think Hawthorn made the decision to tank?  Would it have been around halfway through when they were on the bottom of the ladder with 2 wins from 11 games and a percentage of 75.1% or would it have been much earlier than that (remembering of course that this was the season that cost their coach his job)?  It certainly couldn't have been any later because that position right there tells me that they were absolute crap anyway and didn't have to change one single thing to end up where they did.  And remember that this was the year when their coach told all and sundry during the pre-season that they would "win the premiership"!  If they were tanking then why did they beat us so convincingly in Round 21 and consign themselves to the 2nd pick instead of the 'coveted' 1st pick?  So just when did this team sitting on the bottom of the ladder halfway through a 'premiership winning' season decide to change it's tack and deliberately lose games?

And when in 2005 exactly did they start?  Remember this was Clarkson's first year in which he conducted a major cleanout of players and introduced a completely different gameplan and work ethic to a very young and inexperienced list.  Sound familiar to another team currently sitting 15th who has just recently been described by many experts as the worst ever in the history of the competition?  If they were tanking then why did they beat the team below them in Round 17 to effectively end their chance of finishing with the 1st pick?  Tanking teams do not give up those 'prized' picks 1 or 2 places higher without a serious fight.  Halfway through the season Hawthorn were 15th with 3 wins and a percentage of 96%, by season's end they were 14th with 5 wins and a percentage of 82%.  Hhhmm, a young inexperienced side with a new coach learning a completely different (and unique at the time) gameplan improved it's ladder position in the 2nd half of the season despite winning less games and dropping significant percentage.  Yep, some real tanking indicators right there, nothing at all to do with the reality of how capable and good they were at the time.

Quote

as for your second comment, i cannot believe you are serious. You need to learn to walk before you run, how about getting the talent to be thereabts and "in the game" before starting to think premierships? At least it fast tracks them to get into a position were they can strike at a flag. Hawthorn got it all right with their development and did it quick, carlton and melbourne may not win a flag but they've assembled the talent from which to load a shot at a flag in te next few yrs which is more than can be said about our dud club!
Tanking isnt as black or white as win or lose a flag, its about giving smart clubs the opportunity to fastrack improvement and put them in the mix, once there its up to coaching/development/injuries some intangibles and a little bit of luck to take you all the way


Walk before you run?  How about teaching the players you have, to walk before they run?  You might find it interesting to know that in Clarkson's first 3 years in charge he turned over 21 players from his starting list.  During the same 3 years Richmond turned over 24 players.  Clarkson had 8 Top 20 picks in his 1st 3 years (end 04, end 05, end 06), Richmond had 7.  So in spite of both clubs starting from similar ladder positions, new coaching groups, similar high draft picks and significant list cleanouts, one team went on to win a flag while the other has had zero success and not improved one iota.  And you would have me believe that this was because Hawthorn supposedly tanked in 04/05?  Winning flags is all about those "intangibles" you mention in passing and nothing to do with the number of high draft picks you receive - that is the reality of it.  Those "intangibles" are the core of it but sadly the tanking proponents allow themselves to be blinded by the lure of the quick fix and easy road.

about hawthorn in 04 and 05, in a nutshell they realised halfway through the season they didn't have the cattle to win a flag, so they took action. People kept saying that we beat hawthorn to Walace but that is rubbish, they had a clear plan in place to load up on cattle, take short term pain for long term gain and boy did they get that right, they wanted Clarko bc his philosophies fit their plans. Hawthorn is a perfect example of a club that knew where they were at, what they needed and milked the system to get it. A deluded club like ours where we finish bottom in 04 and then again in 09 shows we didnt embrace it or weren't willing to face up to the fact tat we just didnt have the cattle. Yes we got 5 top 20 picks in 04 and if we had of got them right I'm sure we wouldnt be in this predicament but fact is we ddnt get them right so need to get it right now.

Is that halfway through the 04 or the 05 season they realised tony?
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #79 on: August 01, 2010, 11:43:19 AM »



Great post. FWIW TM i think if Dimma was our coach last year, in the last uncompromised draft for a few years we would have seen a different win/loss ratio that what we saw under Wallet.

I have no doubt that he would have had the brains to engineer a loss against the Bombers and demons. No doubt.

Leather face was holding onto what little hope he had left to hold the position next year therefore trying to win at all costs.

I have no doubt that engineering a loss is not something in Hardwick's makeup. He comes across as having too much integrity to lay down like a mongrel dog.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

tony_montana

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #80 on: August 01, 2010, 11:50:17 AM »

hawthorn tanked...


Really?  What year(s) would that be in?


2004/2005 thought that was obvious?


I would be interested to know just when in season 2004 that you think Hawthorn made the decision to tank?  Would it have been around halfway through when they were on the bottom of the ladder with 2 wins from 11 games and a percentage of 75.1% or would it have been much earlier than that (remembering of course that this was the season that cost their coach his job)?  It certainly couldn't have been any later because that position right there tells me that they were absolute crap anyway and didn't have to change one single thing to end up where they did.  And remember that this was the year when their coach told all and sundry during the pre-season that they would "win the premiership"!  If they were tanking then why did they beat us so convincingly in Round 21 and consign themselves to the 2nd pick instead of the 'coveted' 1st pick?  So just when did this team sitting on the bottom of the ladder halfway through a 'premiership winning' season decide to change it's tack and deliberately lose games?

And when in 2005 exactly did they start?  Remember this was Clarkson's first year in which he conducted a major cleanout of players and introduced a completely different gameplan and work ethic to a very young and inexperienced list.  Sound familiar to another team currently sitting 15th who has just recently been described by many experts as the worst ever in the history of the competition?  If they were tanking then why did they beat the team below them in Round 17 to effectively end their chance of finishing with the 1st pick?  Tanking teams do not give up those 'prized' picks 1 or 2 places higher without a serious fight.  Halfway through the season Hawthorn were 15th with 3 wins and a percentage of 96%, by season's end they were 14th with 5 wins and a percentage of 82%.  Hhhmm, a young inexperienced side with a new coach learning a completely different (and unique at the time) gameplan improved it's ladder position in the 2nd half of the season despite winning less games and dropping significant percentage.  Yep, some real tanking indicators right there, nothing at all to do with the reality of how capable and good they were at the time.

Quote

as for your second comment, i cannot believe you are serious. You need to learn to walk before you run, how about getting the talent to be thereabts and "in the game" before starting to think premierships? At least it fast tracks them to get into a position were they can strike at a flag. Hawthorn got it all right with their development and did it quick, carlton and melbourne may not win a flag but they've assembled the talent from which to load a shot at a flag in te next few yrs which is more than can be said about our dud club!
Tanking isnt as black or white as win or lose a flag, its about giving smart clubs the opportunity to fastrack improvement and put them in the mix, once there its up to coaching/development/injuries some intangibles and a little bit of luck to take you all the way


Walk before you run?  How about teaching the players you have, to walk before they run?  You might find it interesting to know that in Clarkson's first 3 years in charge he turned over 21 players from his starting list.  During the same 3 years Richmond turned over 24 players.  Clarkson had 8 Top 20 picks in his 1st 3 years (end 04, end 05, end 06), Richmond had 7.  So in spite of both clubs starting from similar ladder positions, new coaching groups, similar high draft picks and significant list cleanouts, one team went on to win a flag while the other has had zero success and not improved one iota.  And you would have me believe that this was because Hawthorn supposedly tanked in 04/05?  Winning flags is all about those "intangibles" you mention in passing and nothing to do with the number of high draft picks you receive - that is the reality of it.  Those "intangibles" are the core of it but sadly the tanking proponents allow themselves to be blinded by the lure of the quick fix and easy road.

about hawthorn in 04 and 05, in a nutshell they realised halfway through the season they didn't have the cattle to win a flag, so they took action. People kept saying that we beat hawthorn to Walace but that is rubbish, they had a clear plan in place to load up on cattle, take short term pain for long term gain and boy did they get that right, they wanted Clarko bc his philosophies fit their plans. Hawthorn is a perfect example of a club that knew where they were at, what they needed and milked the system to get it. A deluded club like ours where we finish bottom in 04 and then again in 09 shows we didnt embrace it or weren't willing to face up to the fact tat we just didnt have the cattle. Yes we got 5 top 20 picks in 04 and if we had of got them right I'm sure we wouldnt be in this predicament but fact is we ddnt get them right so need to get it right now.

Is that halfway through the 04 or the 05 season they realised tony?

04 season.They thought they were finals bound, was a huge shock to the system and they quickly took action and starting putting in place a plan that would net them their next flag. Real flag chasing clubs with the right quality players don't ever capitulate like that when things are going badly, you can go 2 ways from there, if you know you are a victim of circumstance (ie injury)and have the cattle u do what adelaide did this season and fight back or you do what Hawthorn and melbourne did - that is take advantage of the system to stock up on the required talent to give yourself a shot at winning one.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #81 on: August 01, 2010, 12:13:20 PM »
So your saying that half through the season when they were 2 wins from 11 games they decided to tank?

So for the first 11 weeks they were just poo, but then for the rest of the year they were deliberately losing?

How did they convince the coach to take action that would lead to him losing his job 6 weeks later?

At the half way point of that season Richmond had 4 wins and did not win another game for the year, in which time the hawks won another two games to climb above us on the ladder, both of which came after the change of coach.

Yet Hawthorn tanked and Richmond didn't?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

tony_montana

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #82 on: August 01, 2010, 12:29:38 PM »
So your saying that half through the season when they were 2 wins from 11 games they decided to tank?

So for the first 11 weeks they were just poo, but then for the rest of the year they were deliberately losing?

How did they convince the coach to take action that would lead to him losing his job 6 weeks later?

At the half way point of that season Richmond had 4 wins and did not win another game for the year, in which time the hawks won another two games to climb above us on the ladder, both of which came after the change of coach.

Yet Hawthorn tanked and Richmond didn't?

You're being a little naive al. Whether you want to believe it or not some clubs at some stage of the season make a call. Never will players be asked to give less than 100% effort, rarely will coaches be asked to categorically throw a game(but does and can happen occassionally) but what does happen is the directive from the top is clear: We are now in development mode, wins/losses are irrelevant. Throw players around, play the youngsters ahead of senior players, which compromises your chances of winning, easy as that. Schwab was deadman walking, they didn't need to convince him he was never going to coach them in 2005 not nce the club had come to the realisation that this group of players was NOT goingto win them a flag.


Offline Penelope

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #83 on: August 01, 2010, 04:37:45 PM »
There's nothing naive about it tony. They are legitimate questions to the claims you made.
Do you have legitimate answers?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

tony_montana

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #84 on: August 01, 2010, 05:12:42 PM »
There's nothing naive about it tony. They are legitimate questions to the claims you made.
Do you have legitimate answers?

i thought i answered it...

they made a call halfway through the season when the brutal truth became obvious to the board - that the HFC in its present form was not going to deliver a premiership, hence a new plan was formulated... schwab was a goner once they decided to go down this path. Yes they won a couple more games but they could afford to, anything more would have been silly.  The fact hawthrn continued down this road the following season and we didnt shows the different paths both sides took, they tanked 2 years we didnt bc we were deluded enough to think we had the cattle.


Offline Penelope

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #85 on: August 01, 2010, 05:18:23 PM »
You havn't anwered any of these questions?

So your saying that half through the season when they were 2 wins from 11 games they decided to tank?

So for the first 11 weeks they were just poo, but then for the rest of the year they were deliberately losing?

How did they convince the coach to take action that would lead to him losing his job 6 weeks later?

At the half way point of that season Richmond had 4 wins and did not win another game for the year, in which time the hawks won another two games to climb above us on the ladder, both of which came after the change of coach.

Yet Hawthorn tanked and Richmond didn't?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

tony_montana

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #86 on: August 01, 2010, 05:24:28 PM »
You havn't anwered any of these questions?

So your saying that half through the season when they were 2 wins from 11 games they decided to tank?

So for the first 11 weeks they were just poo, but then for the rest of the year they were deliberately losing?

How did they convince the coach to take action that would lead to him losing his job 6 weeks later?

At the half way point of that season Richmond had 4 wins and did not win another game for the year, in which time the hawks won another two games to climb above us on the ladder, both of which came after the change of coach.

Yet Hawthorn tanked and Richmond didn't?

read it again al, i answered them

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #87 on: August 01, 2010, 11:51:51 PM »
Carlon got done for cheating.

taking away the draft picks for many years helped them get the 3 number one picks.

not really tanking

as it doesnt happen at Punt Rd so why bother discussing it.
look how Carlton is travelling. move on

Offline RollsRoyce

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #88 on: August 02, 2010, 07:50:20 AM »
Carlon got done for cheating.

taking away the draft picks for many years helped them get the 3 number one picks.

not really tanking


Coming into the 07 season, the AFL changed the rules so that the team that finished bottom the year before (Carlton) would get the no.1 pick if they didn't win more than 4 games, irrespective of who finished bottom that year (us).
Carlton lay down like dead dogs for half a season to steal our rightful no.1 pick. Having a 2nd top 4 pick allowed them to swap it away to secure Judd as well. Carlton definitely tanked.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Almost guaranteed now a top 8 pick
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2010, 05:33:37 AM »
Our lack of money is entirely of our own making and we are the only ones who can control fixing it.  We have already discussed the value of having a sufficiently resourced football department and if we want that then we have to make all the moves to achieve it.  Whether we are subsidizing other clubs through stadia deal is quite irrelevant - it doesn't stop other clubs from being financially responsible enough to cope with similar bad deals and still provide their football departments with ample resources.  The sooner we stop blaming everything around us for our problems and looking for assistance from anyone who will give it then the better off we will be.  One second spent on worrying about financial inequalities or complaining because other clubs have conducted themselves more successfully and professionally than us is another second we have to wait until the realization sinks in that there are no knights in shining armour or Good Samaritans out there coming to our rescue.  If we sit back thinking that our financial salvation will come from better crowds and memberships driven by increased on field success then we will only be repeating the stupid mistakes of years gone by.  Any extra crowd-driven revenue should be the unplanned and unbudgeted icing on the cake, the real long term positive changes in our financial position will come from our efforts in conducting ourselves as a viable and professional business entity with multiple strong income sources, sound investments and controlled spending mechanisms.  When, and only when we devote all our energies to improving our club's position by all the means at our disposal will true improvement come.

We signed those stadia deals, we failed to recruit well, we failed to staff well, we failed to govern and manage well, we failed to coach well, we failed to play well.  Us, us, us, not them, them, them.  We won't start to be successful on the field until we can afford to match the other successful clubs in spending wisely on development and other critical football areas, getting and wasting more and more high draft picks obtained through tanking or sheer incompetence will not make one scrap of difference.  And that is why I have warmed to March as our president in recent years.  He has been resolute in his efforts to stabilize our board and our finances, increasing the spending in our football department each and every year without risking further financial hardship before he has gone about changing the football department itself.  Very thankfully he has put the horse before the cart.

No-one said it would be easy to climb out of the abyss successive regimes at Richmond have put this club into.  But the ONLY way to climb out and stay out is through hard work, sacrifice, honesty, transparency and professionalism in all our dealings in all areas of the club.  When we regain the respect of our supporters, our opponents and ourselves then we will be on the path to strength and success, and not a moment before.  Respect will not come through reliance on tanking and it will not come through reliance on financial handouts.

I try (and don't always succeed) to live my life by an ethos of "don't blame me".  By that I mean that to spend even one nano-second of my time blaming something or someone else for anything that hasn't gone my way is self-defeating and a sheer waste of my much too precious time.  I am responsible for every single thing - good or bad - that has happened to me in my life and only I can change what I don't like.  And that is how I see it for our club.
I only mentioned the poor stadia deals in response to you smokey asking Stripes or TM how would we like it if Richmond had to subsidise North as part of the AFL handing out handouts. I was just pointing out we already are.

Being pro-tanking is not blaming everyone else for the mess Richmond has been in for the past 30 years btw. Quite the opposite in fact as we want to use the existing draft system perfectly legally, with its priority picks designed to help bottom clubs improve their playing lists, so Richmond can improve more quickly as a club and become successful off our own back. You ask for professionalism yet professionalism is squeezing every ounce out of every legal means available to become the best - be it exploiting healthy/wealthy finances, sports science, maximising recruiting resources, exploiting the draft system, whatever to gain an advantage over all the other clubs. Not sure how anyone can say exploiting the first three of those is acting as a professional club while exploiting the draft system perfectly legally is classed as "cheating" ???. They are all legal means and all clubs have and would use them.

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getting and wasting more and more high draft picks obtained through tanking or sheer incompetence will not make one scrap of difference.
Who says we're going to waste more and more high draft picks anymore. Martin and Cotchin are recent top 3 picks. Hardly a waste of high picks. Even if that were true about wasting high picks as it was in the past that statement makes no sense whatsoever as if we are still stupid enough to waste high draft picks where the better kids are then clearly the lower poorer quality picks will most certainly be wasted as well. At least high picks have more certainty nowdays given the vast sophisticated and superior methods and statistics used.

The thing is we've finally now put decent resources into our recruiting department so why deprive our recruiters now of access to a greater and higher quality draft pool just for the short-term thrill of a few meaningless win(s) that are forgotten about as soon the next season comes around. That's been the problem at Richmond for so long. Never having the foresight to see the big picture beyond the current season and in the past even beyond the next match where a cheap win covered up the cracks for another week before being exposed so easily again and the club imploding :P. We are in rebuilding mode. That means we need to aim for a strong quality maturing list by 2013. 2010 is just a stepping stone on that path. Wins/losses aren't a priority. Having another top 20 pick last year plus two picks inside the top 6 this year would've accelerated our ability to rebuild the list with quality given our player development has also improved. Too me it's just so obviously playing the odds. A choice of a top 20 and top 6 picks or the two late picks you're left with by missing out on priority picks? It's a no brainer and a lost opportunity!
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd