Author Topic: Ranking Our Champions  (Read 18526 times)

Offline JohnF

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #105 on: April 21, 2005, 06:18:06 PM »
 :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

Offline JohnF

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #106 on: April 22, 2005, 06:01:59 PM »
Just got a question regarding All-Australian selections so I might as well ask it here:

Why is it that a lot of our lesser like players have won All Australian guernseys and a lot of our champions haven't?

e.g. Bartlett was never All-Australian. Royce Hart was All Australian only once. Whereas Gaspar, Cambo, Richo have 2 AA each.

Was this because they stopped bestowing the honour on players for a while?

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #107 on: April 22, 2005, 06:13:49 PM »
Don't know the answer JohnF and I could be totally off the mark here but before the AFL came along wasn't the All-Australian team decided from the State Carnivals as opposed to some panel of journos now? If that's correct then that may have had something to do with it. Possibly explain why the Flea got a few as he was a star in State of Origin.

Did Royce play for his home state of Tassie or the VFL?


All Australian Tigers:
-----------------

Rowe, Des    1956
Wright, Roy    1956
Crowe, Neville    1966
Hart, Royce    1969
Cloke, David    1979
Monteath, Bruce    1979
Roach, Michael    1979
Jess, Jim    1980
Raines, Geoff    1980
Lee, Mark    1980, 1983, 1985
Rioli, Maurice   1983, 1986 (also achieved the honour for a third time in 1988 after retiring from the VFL following the 1987 season)
Weightman, Dale    1985, 1986, 1988
Campbell, Wayne    1995
Richardson, Matthew    1996
Knights, Matthew    1998
Gaspar, Darren    2000, 2001
Kellaway, Andrew    2000
Ottens, Brad    2001
« Last Edit: August 10, 2005, 11:08:36 PM by mightytiges »
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Offline JohnF

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #108 on: April 22, 2005, 06:22:04 PM »
That would explain it MT. Even so you'd think Bartlett would have done something for the Big V to get AA selection at least once, considering he played 20 games for Victoria and even captained the side. I remember seeing one game where played against Western Australia (was in the State of Origin marathon on Fox Footy recently) and he absolutely dominated.

Offline JohnF

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #109 on: April 22, 2005, 06:27:24 PM »

All Australian Tigers:
-----------------

Rowe, Des    1956
Wright, Roy    1956
Crowe, Neville    1966
Hart, Royce    1969
Cloke, David    1979
Monteath, Bruce    1979
Roach, Michael    1979
Jess, Jim    1980
Raines, Geoff    1980
Lee, Mark    1980, 1983, 1985
Weightman, Dale    1985, 1986, 1988
Campbell, Wayne    1995
Richardson, Matthew    1996
Knights, Matthew    1998
Gaspar, Darren    2000, 2001
Kellaway, Andrew    2000
Ottens, Brad    2001

Both Richo and Cambo got AA in 1999 as well.

p.s. Cambo should have been AA in 2001 as well (imo his best year)  :thumbsup ;D

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #110 on: April 22, 2005, 06:42:33 PM »
http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/1980_adelaide_state_of_origin_carnival.htm - (KB captained and Hafey coached Vic)

http://www.fullpointsfooty.net/all_australian_teams.htm - AA teams 1953-1988. Yeah it looks like the AA teams were decided from state carnivals so there wasn't one named every year until 1985 onwards.

Just to answer my own question Royce played for the VFL.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #111 on: April 22, 2005, 06:46:36 PM »

All Australian Tigers:
-----------------

Rowe, Des    1956
Wright, Roy    1956
Crowe, Neville    1966
Hart, Royce    1969
Cloke, David    1979
Monteath, Bruce    1979
Roach, Michael    1979
Jess, Jim    1980
Raines, Geoff    1980
Lee, Mark    1980, 1983, 1985
Weightman, Dale    1985, 1986, 1988
Campbell, Wayne    1995
Richardson, Matthew    1996
Knights, Matthew    1998
Gaspar, Darren    2000, 2001
Kellaway, Andrew    2000
Ottens, Brad    2001

Both Richo and Cambo got AA in 1999 as well.

p.s. Cambo should have been AA in 2001 as well (imo his best year)  :thumbsup ;D

Just reminding us he won one more than Knighter lol.

ps. you really are Cambo aren't ya? LOL  ;) :rollin
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Offline JohnF

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2005, 07:09:54 PM »
I've been accused of being his gf before, roflmaooo :rollin

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #113 on: April 23, 2005, 04:13:56 AM »
I've been accused of being his gf before, roflmaooo :rollin

 :lol

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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #114 on: August 10, 2005, 05:49:18 PM »
A good time to give this thread another viewing with Cambo's retirement.

How do you guys think Cambo will be judged by history and where would you rank him personally?

4 B&Fs and 8 times in the top 3. Twice AA, S.O.O, and captain for 4 years including leading us to a rare finals appearance yet played in mostly crap teams so no flag or brownlow (not a vote in 95  ??? ) and didn't make it into the RFC team of the century yet Richo and Knighter did (waiting for promised JohnF "rant" about the latter lol).

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Offline JohnF

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #115 on: August 10, 2005, 06:42:55 PM »
lmfao, good bump MT.

It's very hard to get any truth regarding a player's ranking in their own era let alone all-time, but it's something we can't help ourselves in doing. We need to settle the hierarchy of greats!

I'm not sure if there really is any truth in the matter, a lot depends on one's values and what characteristics one cherishes over others.

For some, characteristics like leadership, courage, bravery, self-sacrifice, stand out above all others. For others, skill, poise, grace and footy smarts stand out. Others still place a premium on the spectacular, the extraordinary and what takes one's breath away. There are also those who place the highest value on consistency, durability, longevity.

In a way, if there is any truth to the matter, you really have to consider everything. But really, I'm not sure what should really take precedence in your value system.

This isn't exactly mathematics and it is open to interpretation to a fair degree.

Not having seen much footy before the late 80's, I really don't have much of an idea about where to rank Cambo all time. In the last 15 years though it is somewhat easier. For me he has been the best.

He definitely wasn't the most spectacular and didn't do much that was extraordinary that would get you out of your seat and scream like a madman. In that respect, there have been many that have been better than him. Nor was he the bravest or the most self-sacrificial player.

But in other respects, he was the man.

Great kicking skills on both sides of the body. Many criticise him for kicking floaters or toe pokes that go nowhere, but I think this is an unfair criticism, not taking into account that a lot of Cambo's possessions were earnt in the clinches where moving the ball forward by any means necessary was the name of the game. When he had time to size up his options he was a very accurate kick. His goal kicking from set shots was superb and as Nathan Brown has said, if he was leading for the mark and the ball could be in any player's hands in the team he would want it to be Campbell, becuase he is a great kick and makes the right decisions. The only legitimate criticism of his kicking was that he couldn't really get more than 50 metres in his prime, which would allow him to kick more goals than he did from outside 50. But within 40 metres he was very pin-point. 

His handballing was always good and he had very clean hands. In this facet though, i would say Knights, Broderick and Lambert were all slightly better. He would be fourth in line. 

His marking was also very good for his size. He rarely lost to players his size in one on one contests, especially other midfielders.

Without doubt he was the most footy smart Tiger player of his time. His main asset was his uncanny ability to find the footy. Even as a hack coming off the bench he can still gather 17 or 18 touches a game playing little more than half of it. He just knows where to position himself to find the Sherrin. He jsut thinks one step ahead of most players and is tremendously alert.

His decision making and poise with the footy are also unquestioned. In terms of poise and decision making I'd say maybe Knights was slightly better in his prime. Knights was rediculously well poised and our most graceful player and his decision making especially by hand was great. Campbell wasn't that far behind though. Though nowhere near as graceful he was very quick minded and clear in his decision making. Rarely did he choose wrong options.

In terms of longevity, consistency and durability he has clearly been the best. He has played the most games, been the most consistent as his trophy cabinet attests to with his outstanding B&F results, and before injuries caught up with him near the end, he was extremely durable. He was an endurance freak and would run his guts out from the start to the finish of games and would never stop trying win lose or draw. No one would come close to covering the territory he has in matches over the last 15 years I'd say.

He also had good leadership qualities. I'd say only Tony Free was as good a captain as him. Campbell was a smarter and more tactically aware player, but Free had courage and grit, and inspired his team mates more than what Campbell could. Before his calf and Achilles injuries Campbell was making a very good fist of it as captain though. He had increased his toughness and was one of the leading pack clearance players in the competition. He had earnt the respect of players and most fickle supporters alike. He was setting a good example with his discipline, dedication and professionalism.


All time ranking? Like I said, I haven't seen enough before the late 80s to make any real assessment, but I admit it does make it seem weird to be in the company of legends like Bartlett, Dyer, Bourke, Titus. I can't convince myself that he belongs in their stratosphere.

But to me at least, if they were putting Knights and Richo in the Tigers team of the Century, then Campbell definitely ranks in the top 20 tigers, becuase IMO, Campbell was better than both.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2005, 06:55:00 PM by JohnF »

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #116 on: August 10, 2005, 06:44:27 PM »
can anyone tell me why maurice rioli never made AA

Offline Captain__Blood

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #117 on: August 10, 2005, 07:01:00 PM »
If I had to rank the top 5/6 on reputation.

1 - Jack Dyer
2 - Ian Stewart
3 - Royce Hart
4 - Jack Titus
5 -  Kevin Bartlett
6 -  Francis Bourke

Intersting to look at the team of the century:

Official 'Team of the Century'
 
Backs: Kevin Sheedy Vic Thorp Michael Green
Half Backs: Basil McCormack Gordon Strang Mervyn Keane
Centres: Francis Bourke Bill Barrot Dick Clay
Half Forwards: Matthew Richardson Royce Hart Roger Dean
Forwards: Dale Weightman Jack Titus Bill Morris
1st Ruck: Roy Wright Jack Dyer Kevin Bartlett
Interchange: Des Rowe Geoff Raines Ian Stewart
Matthew Knights   
Coach: Tom Hafey 

Offline the_boy_jake

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #118 on: August 10, 2005, 10:31:14 PM »
A consistently very good footballer. I don't think I ever really expected Campbell to tear a game apart. I knew he would almost never let us down though. He must have been a dream to coach in that respect. I think he is the second best footballer we have had in the last 10-15 years. Knighter had more vision, more poise. He was our beating heart and the player, until the early 2000s, that the opposition knew they had to stop. Campbell was a very good footballer over a very long time, and will join the likes of Knights, Weightman, Free and Gale as men who gave their hearts to an ultimately fruitless cause.


How do you guys think Cambo will be judged by history and where would you rank him personally?


Offline mightytiges

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Re: Ranking Our Champions
« Reply #119 on: August 10, 2005, 11:04:04 PM »
can anyone tell me why maurice rioli never made AA

X, I just noticed his name wasn't on the list I put up in an earlier post in this thread. I'll edit him back in.

Rioli actually won AA honours 3 times - in 1983 and 86 when he was at Richmond playing for Western Australia (the AA team only came from triannually held state carnivals) and for a third time in 1988 playing for NT after he left the Tiges after 1987.
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