Bachar Houli [merged]

[Bengal]

i think that in the long run players like jacko and bacha whose hand and foot skills are not very good have a limited shelf life.

we are an average middle of the road side and thats because we have too many middle of the road players IMHO.

   FMD we had a down game, next week we will bounce back and everyone will be happy again

[Rampstar]

Ill be extremely happy with our season if we finish 8th. Thats middle of the road.

[the claw]

i think that in the long run players like jacko and bacha whose hand and foot skills are not very good have a limited shelf life.

we are an average middle of the road side and thats because we have too many middle of the road players IMHO.

exactly right but dare suggest we need to at the least look to upgrade on them over a few yrs and you cop it in the neck.id say we are in contention for the 8 at best 7th thru 14th thats where we are at.

houli is a very good kick but only with time and space. any hint of pressure and he panics. he barely has a defensive bone in his body and he has no awareness in traffic. he brings some good things to the table but he also brings plenty of ordinary stuff as well. i can think of 3 or 4 id rather see coming off hb in a pressure game.

[Rampstar]

problem from a supporters point of view is that a lot of people cant see that when Hardwick started this job some people said we had a worse list than Fitzroy. That was the starting point, so Hartley went out and got the likes of Houli and Grigg and thats good because that type of player gets you out of the basement but the reality is that they can only get you to the bottom end of the finals at best. Our supporters or some of them at least seem to think that we can be top 4 ... with whom? With recruiting the likes of Aaron Edwards or Chris Knights or Ricky Petterd?  Problem is they are probably the same level as Houli and Grigg ... players who will only get you to the bottom reaches of the eight. They arent capable of taking us higher. Frank Jackson has done a good job but Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin are one in the same ... I see them as foot soldiers. Then we have too many weaknesses in our team, Jackson has supposedly been our best player (according to the coaches) I cant see it, Newman is getting on, we only have 1 ruckman, we dont have a big defender who can a key forward to the cleaners. Those are problems that any club has to deal with if they want to go higher.

Our side IMHO is not capable of top4. Our side has a maximum output that may get us to 7th or 8th and thats about it. If we want to finish higher we need to 1) get better players 2) develop our players better 3) have our coaches continue to improve. Thats it in a nutshell. We lost today because they (Collingwood) have better players than us. Thats the reality.

[Penelope]

your not far off the mark ramps, but as i said elsewhere, i dont think it is much that they have better players, but that they are a better team.

games of football, over a period of time, particularly big games, are won by teams, not individuals

[torch]

problem from a supporters point of view is that a lot of people cant see that when Hardwick started this job some people said we had a worse list than Fitzroy. That was the starting point, so Hartley went out and got the likes of Houli and Grigg and thats good because that type of player gets you out of the basement but the reality is that they can only get you to the bottom end of the finals at best. Our supporters or some of them at least seem to think that we can be top 4 ... with whom? With recruiting the likes of Aaron Edwards or Chris Knights or Ricky Petterd?  Problem is they are probably the same level as Houli and Grigg ... players who will only get you to the bottom reaches of the eight. They arent capable of taking us higher. Frank Jackson has done a good job but Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin are one in the same ... I see them as foot soldiers. Then we have too many weaknesses in our team, Jackson has supposedly been our best player (according to the coaches) I cant see it, Newman is getting on, we only have 1 ruckman, we dont have a big defender who can a key forward to the cleaners. Those are problems that any club has to deal with if they want to go higher.

Our side IMHO is not capable of top4. Our side has a maximum output that may get us to 7th or 8th and thats about it. If we want to finish higher we need to 1) get better players 2) develop our players better 3) have our coaches continue to improve. Thats it in a nutshell. We lost today because they (Collingwood) have better players than us. Thats the reality.

Spot on mate!

Do you think we have improved?

[the claw]

problem from a supporters point of view is that a lot of people cant see that when Hardwick started this job some people said we had a worse list than Fitzroy. That was the starting point, so Hartley went out and got the likes of Houli and Grigg and thats good because that type of player gets you out of the basement but the reality is that they can only get you to the bottom end of the finals at best. Our supporters or some of them at least seem to think that we can be top 4 ... with whom? With recruiting the likes of Aaron Edwards or Chris Knights or Ricky Petterd?  Problem is they are probably the same level as Houli and Grigg ... players who will only get you to the bottom reaches of the eight. They arent capable of taking us higher. Frank Jackson has done a good job but Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin are one in the same ... I see them as foot soldiers. Then we have too many weaknesses in our team, Jackson has supposedly been our best player (according to the coaches) I cant see it, Newman is getting on, we only have 1 ruckman, we dont have a big defender who can a key forward to the cleaners. Those are problems that any club has to deal with if they want to go higher.

Our side IMHO is not capable of top4. Our side has a maximum output that may get us to 7th or 8th and thats about it. If we want to finish higher we need to 1) get better players 2) develop our players better 3) have our coaches continue to improve. Thats it in a nutshell. We lost today because they (Collingwood) have better players than us. Thats the reality.

i agree almost 100% with that. its basically pretty much what ive been saying for ages around here in my confronting way.
the only part i disagree on is vlastuin i reckon we got a beauty in him but like all things it now needs to be proven by the player himself.

imo petterd, a edwards, houli, grigg, maric, knights  are all good gets by hartley they enable us to compete against most sides they give experience and some reasonable depth they are basically decent footsoldiers most of the time. and they have enabled to go from a bottom dwellar to a middling team as you put it.
 that does not mean we should not be looking to upgrade on them to go to the next level.

[WilliamPowell]

problem from a supporters point of view is that a lot of people cant see that when Hardwick started this job some people said we had a worse list than Fitzroy. That was the starting point, so Hartley went out and got the likes of Houli and Grigg and thats good because that type of player gets you out of the basement but the reality is that they can only get you to the bottom end of the finals at best. Our supporters or some of them at least seem to think that we can be top 4 ... with whom? With recruiting the likes of Aaron Edwards or Chris Knights or Ricky Petterd?  Problem is they are probably the same level as Houli and Grigg ... players who will only get you to the bottom reaches of the eight. They arent capable of taking us higher. Frank Jackson has done a good job but Ellis, Conca and Vlastuin are one in the same ... I see them as foot soldiers. Then we have too many weaknesses in our team, Jackson has supposedly been our best player (according to the coaches) I cant see it, Newman is getting on, we only have 1 ruckman, we dont have a big defender who can a key forward to the cleaners. Those are problems that any club has to deal with if they want to go higher.

Our side IMHO is not capable of top4. Our side has a maximum output that may get us to 7th or 8th and thats about it. If we want to finish higher we need to 1) get better players 2) develop our players better 3) have our coaches continue to improve. Thats it in a nutshell. We lost today because they (Collingwood) have better players than us. Thats the reality.

But who's said that in 2013 we were top 4 material? Seriously who? Not many I would have thought and those who have; have clearly over rated our list.

We are one of a number often as that is challenging for 6th-8th this year. Nothing more IMHO

[torch]

Houli should be instructed to kick long and not handball it. All handballs are to players under pressure. He has a beautiful long kick that players should run long and wide for him to kick it out of our defence! He is not a defender!!! He is a genuine wingman! If he is to play in defence, he should be loose and be that sweeper out of defence!!!

[Francois Jackson]

I'd say his best half of footy this year.

His desperation and tackling has been first rate.

[Simonator]

I'd say his best half of footy this year.

His desperation and tackling has been first rate.

That spoil on balanwhine 

[tony_montana]

Was thinking someone was going to point out an incident where he took short steps....

[mightytiges]

One of our best tonight IMO. One of the few Tigers out there tonight who showed some poise with the ball.

[Hellenic Tiger]

In that last play could he have run a little further?
Just asking I can't remember nor am I pointing a finger for khim kicking it when he did.

[Penelope]

I was screaming at him to run in and kick the goal, but he mustn't have heard me, unlike martin when he kicked that goal from the boundry. 

I think sometimes we are too unselfish. If you have the skills and are in range then go for it. The best option is always the highest percentage one and sometimes that is taking a shot.

I wouldn't be pointing the finger at Bacher over that though