THE GRIGG vs COLLINS DEBATE!

[Mr Magic]

I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past.

Let's just hope he's a little mentally tougher than Richie or McMahon for that matter.
Otherwise he can bugger off too.
Footy's a tough game. You cop criticism and praise.
Enough softies.

[tiger till i die]

If we played him foward would that take pressure off Jr8? if so how much?

If he plays forward then something will have gone awry.  We have recruited him for the midfield.

I know but .. from videos i have seen he looks liek a fair good goal kicker .. maby an attacking mid?

[Smokey]

If we played him foward would that take pressure off Jr8? if so how much?

If he plays forward then something will have gone awry.  We have recruited him for the midfield.

I know but .. from videos i have seen he looks liek a fair good goal kicker .. maby an attacking mid?

That would be good - we could do with a goal kicking mid to go with Mitch playing higher up the ground.

[mightytiges]

I'm feeling sorry for Grigg already. Despite so many people trying to convince themselves and anyone else out there that they will give Grigg a chance and plenty of time, I can see the poor fellow copping all the anger from losing Collins that should be directed at the recruiters if any one. I pray  that Grigg jumps out of the box early and Collins has a poor 2011 but, given a simmering discontent shown here, I would suggest the bloke is already feeling pressure to perform to justify the trade.

I can definitely see why the club made the deal and why Collins was considered a non-essential player. I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past. I hope we give him a chance and forget who he was traded for but just remember why we wanted Grigg in the first place...

It's about the future now I say.

I see the trade as a bit 'meh' and a sideways move as I said on the day but you're right Stripes it's not Grigg's fault that Collins went the other way and in any case it's not as though we gave up the next Judd for Grigg. I'd rather trade an expendable player as we've done whose type can be easily replaced than give up a decent draft pick. 

If both play round 1, the media however will play on it for all its worth afterwards depending on who wins  .

[Stripes]

I'm feeling sorry for Grigg already. Despite so many people trying to convince themselves and anyone else out there that they will give Grigg a chance and plenty of time, I can see the poor fellow copping all the anger from losing Collins that should be directed at the recruiters if any one. I pray  that Grigg jumps out of the box early and Collins has a poor 2011 but, given a simmering discontent shown here, I would suggest the bloke is already feeling pressure to perform to justify the trade.

I can definitely see why the club made the deal and why Collins was considered a non-essential player. I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past. I hope we give him a chance and forget who he was traded for but just remember why we wanted Grigg in the first place...

It's about the future now I say.

I agree. The media love it when they even get a hint of the Tigers supporters possibly turning on one of their own.  If we start to get into Griggs and the papers get on to it ?(Caro I'm talking to you here as well!  ) then can you imagine all the Carlton fist pumping...
I see the trade as a bit 'meh' and a sideways move as I said on the day but you're right Stripes it's not Grigg's fault that Collins went the other way and in any case it's not as though we gave up the next Judd for Grigg. I'd rather trade an expendable player as we've done whose type can be easily replaced than give up a decent draft pick. 

If both play round 1, the media however will play on it for all its worth afterwards depending on who wins  .

[Stripes]

I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past.

Let's just hope he's a little mentally tougher than Richie or McMahon for that matter.
Otherwise he can bugger off too.
Footy's a tough game. You cop criticism and praise.
Enough softies.

I agree that footy is a tough game MM but besides the two you've mentioned none of our other young players have had to endure the supporter expectations or speculation such as those two. Imagine if we got Jack ina trade such as this in 2009, he may never have realised his potential.

All I'm saying is that Grigg is not to blame for the trade. I think we need to forget how he came to the club and remember that we want his to go well and if he doesn't 100% of the time - well don't pile on the pressure no more than you would any of our other players.

Stripes

[Mr Magic]

All I'm saying is that Grigg is not to blame for the trade.

That's very true.
The screws should be turned to the administration if Grigg's a dud and Collins goes on to be a gun.

I would hate to see that happen.

[Smokey]

If both play round 1, the media however will play on it for all its worth afterwards depending on who wins  .

Not so sure it will be made such a big deal of MT.  Both are only young bit-players at present so it might get a comment or 2 but will be quickly forgotten in the media until/unless 1 of them starts to have a serious impact over a number of weeks - then we might see the knives and snide comments appear.

[the claw]

and to the wankers out there ridiculing collins size aqnd pidgeon holing him nothing but a forward how times change and attitude your opinion is worth poo if you bag a player based solely on the club he plays for
suddenly collins is at carlton and he has no strengths or upside all that appear visible is his deficiencies. talk about bloody hypocrites.

if any took the time to look they would see one of the most natural mids going around.

Get the rose coloured glasses of mate.
Collins is such a natural mid we didn't play him in the midfield this year and the club punted him for an opposition fringe player. This despite the fact that we are screaming for outside midfielders.
Andy has some skills but is skinny as a runt and an ordinary kick of the ball.
Overall his season was extremely disappointing and

he was wearing a Richmond jumper at the time.

sheesh and i thought you were on the developing your own band wagon.
 get it straight andy is not a purely  outside mid far from it.. he played forward because like all good mids he manages to kick goals. there was few others  who could.  he also played forward because of the most obvious of things his size. his body ATM  wont allow him to play the role he does best. its a bit like asking a first yr vickery  or 90kg vickery to hold down the ruck.
yep hes skinny but we all know that.  hes a type that will take time to literally grow into his role. collins always has been a long term propisition. development and patience were the keys just like they are with all kids who have the required attributes to play at the top level. his size issues are improving and have been every yr its not as if hes plateued. he missed the first yr of footy because of op.
i know lets play vickery forward because of size issues  and forget why we do it, and forget that hes actually a ruckman when he doesnt dominate the game  as much as we would like..

absolutely laughing my head of you knock collins kicking what the hell do you think of griggs then. because i know whos the better kick.and i know who is a smart player.
and you must get it straight we didnt punt him carlton asked for him as a means to do the trade. i wonder what it was they saw in him to do that. they obviously think collins a better prospect than pick 46. as it happens i do to.

as i said im an advocate of grigg i have always thought him a decent player, this goes back  from junior days and have said so on footy forums well before this trade ever happened.
 i still maintain we should have kept collins and taken griigg another way. i will maintain this even if collins or grigg or both fails.
why because we are in rebuild and those kids with potential should be nurtured at all costs. why because we have a shedload of players who needed to be gone before collins.why because i think hes worth more long term than the pick we saved in  getting rid of him. we are supposed to be growing the list.

[WA Tiger]

Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... , one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.

[Owl]

and to the wankers out there ridiculing collins size aqnd pidgeon holing him nothing but a forward how times change and attitude your opinion is worth poo if you bag a player based solely on the club he plays for
suddenly collins is at carlton and he has no strengths or upside all that appear visible is his deficiencies. talk about bloody hypocrites.

if any took the time to look they would see one of the most natural mids going around.

Get the rose coloured glasses of mate.
Collins is such a natural mid we didn't play him in the midfield this year and the club punted him for an opposition fringe player. This despite the fact that we are screaming for outside midfielders.
Andy has some skills but is skinny as a runt and an ordinary kick of the ball.
Overall his season was extremely disappointing and

he was wearing a Richmond jumper at the time.

sheesh and i thought you were on the developing your own band wagon.
 get it straight andy is not a purely  outside mid far from it.. he played forward because like all good mids he manages to kick goals. there was few others  who could.  he also played forward because of the most obvious of things his size. his body ATM  wont allow him to play the role he does best. its a bit like asking a first yr vickery  or 90kg vickery to hold down the ruck.
yep hes skinny but we all know that.  hes a type that will take time to literally grow into his role. collins always has been a long term propisition. development and patience were the keys just like they are with all kids who have the required attributes to play at the top level. his size issues are improving and have been every yr its not as if hes plateued. he missed the first yr of footy because of op.
i know lets play vickery forward because of size issues  and forget why we do it, and forget that hes actually a ruckman when he doesnt dominate the game  as much as we would like..

absolutely laughing my head of you knock collins kicking what the hell do you think of griggs then. because i know whos the better kick.and i know who is a smart player.
and you must get it straight we didnt punt him carlton asked for him as a means to do the trade. i wonder what it was they saw in him to do that. they obviously think collins a better prospect than pick 46. as it happens i do to.

as i said im an advocate of grigg i have always thought him a decent player, this goes back  from junior days and have said so on footy forums well before this trade ever happened.
 i still maintain we should have kept collins and taken griigg another way. i will maintain this even if collins or grigg or both fails.
why because we are in rebuild and those kids with potential should be nurtured at all costs. why because we have a shedload of players who needed to be gone before collins.why because i think hes worth more long term than the pick we saved in  getting rid of him. we are supposed to be growing the list.

Claws on the cash here

[Coach]

Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... , one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.

Edwards is bigger than Collins and is a better player than Collins. At least Edwards has put on some size...Collo looks like a 12 year old.

Eddy is gonna be a beauty

[1965]

Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... , one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.

Edwards is bigger than Collins and is a better player than Collins. At least Edwards has put on some size...Collo looks like a 12 year old.

Eddy is gonna be a beauty

Collins is 4cm taller and about the same weight.

But I would still keep Edwards before Collins.

 

[gerkin greg]

Yep, Edwards has a better tank, is a better kick, a better mark, has better hands, more smarts, more speed and can play more positions than Collo.

GC were keen on Grigg and would have taken him before us in the PSD.
The Blues wanted our 2nd rounder for him - way too high, and they wouldn't take any other picks.
They asked for Connors, Morton or Collins, we tried to offload Thursfield, no dice.
We push Grigg into the National Draft and we end up spending a pick we've already decided is too high for him because he wont be available at 46.
Grigg, Connors and Morton rated more valuable to the side than Collo, Collo agrees to go, done deal.
I can't see any other way around it without canning the trade altogether.

Shame cause he was a good prospect, but that's footy.

[wayne]

Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... , one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.

Edwards is a much better footballer than Collins.

His good year was last year, which says to me he is tracking along nicely.