Who are you looking forward to see play most in 2011?

[Willy]

No room for the Cotch ey Claw?

interesting how u say Graham is a 'dud' and it's time to pump games into Browne and Vicks, yet u have big Gus starting.

[tigers_of_old_1980]

GRIFFO - would like to see him play a few more games in 2011, and hope the fitness staff etc have done a good job with his shoulders. Not expecting too much, just playing his role supporting Jack.

[mightytiges]

Missing Cotch in your 22 claw.

I'm happy to have others in front of McGuane and Thursty but claw aren't you contradicting yourself having someone as raw and unready as Dea plus mostly young faces in defence in an attempt to get as many games into the cubs while at the same time supporting the idea of playing a 27 y.o. (turns 28 midway through next season) washed up reject (who was at Melbourne the epitome of a glass half-full type) ahead of our young talls in our forward line.

As for Miller playing 11 AFL games next year . A team structured around a player who won't be part of our future and was overlooked by his former club who were also on the same rebuilding path. If we cop a stack of injuries I'd rather use Tuck as last resort in a fill-in lead-up forward role than waste time bringing into the club another temporary team clogger as "insurance" who'll also need to be delisted.

This time last year when Richo announced his retirement we all fretted about where our goals were going to come from in 2010. No one envisioned we already had a future Coleman medallist on our list who would thrive under the added responsibility of leading our forward line. Let's not deviate from getting as many games into the kids across the field. We are still in the development stage given how young our list is. Our win/loss record in 2011 should still be mostly irrelevant to how we judge improvement. If we are more competitive and are playing a better style of football with more talented youth coming through the ranks then we should all be very happy with our progression twelve months from now; if however we win more games overall next year compared to 2010 but they are mostly narrow grinding wins against other bottom sides with the likes of Miller leading the way then we'll be fooling ourselves. 

[Chuck17]

Why is Cotch playing at Coburg or is he injured?

[Penelope]

As for Miller playing 11 AFL games next year . A team structured around a player who won't be part of our future and was overlooked by his former club who were also on the same rebuilding path. If we cop a stack of injuries I'd rather use Tuck as last resort in a fill-in lead-up forward role than waste time bringing into the club another temporary team clogger as "insurance" who'll also need to be delisted.

This time last year when Richo announced his retirement we all fretted about where our goals were going to come from in 2010. No one envisioned we already had a future Coleman medallist on our list who would thrive under the added responsibility of leading our forward line. Let's not deviate from getting as many games into the kids across the field. We are still in the development stage given how young our list is. Our win/loss record in 2011 should still be mostly irrelevant to how we judge improvement. If we are more competitive and are playing a better style of football with more talented youth coming through the ranks then we should all be very happy with our progression twelve months from now; if however we win more games overall next year compared to 2010 but they are mostly narrow grinding wins against other bottom sides with the likes of Miller leading the way then we'll be fooling ourselves. 

I don't believe there is is a plan to structure a forward line around Miller, but more the view that if needed, miller is a player who can play the structure that Hardwick wants.

The forward line seemed to work best when Griffiths was playing, even though he didn't have much of a impact statistically. It was during this period that Jack was able to be isolated one out with his opponent and he flourished. Despite trying a variety of other tallish options, the side struggled to get anywhere near the functionality of the forward line that griffiths seemed to provide. There did seem to be some cohesion developing towards the end of the season with Post though.

Right from the start Hardwick has picked players that will play how he wants, that follow team rules and do things that work towards providing the structures that Hardwick desires. This may have meant that players getting a game may have less talent than those not at times, but this puts the onus back on to those players not getting a game to perform for the team, not themselves before they can get a game.

To me modern football is becoming all about structures and if you can first get your structures in place, then over time you replace the average players with more skilled players that can easily fit straight in. A well oiled machine that parts are easily replaced, so to speak.

I see the idea of miller is to provide that bigger bodied alternative so when the midfielders look up they have the options required, they can see the forward structure that Hardwick wants to implement. It helps the team's overall development and also helps the young forwards because they can see what needs to be done. Theres not much point in instructing the players up field to play a certain way if those down field cannot provide the structure for them to play that way.

I doubt if he will be the first option of Hardwick's, just a fallback in case of injury or lack of performance of the forwards considered to be the future of the club. I cant see any point in playing Tuck, or anyone else, if they simply cant provide this structure. It just hinders development.

I don't believe that it is about just getting an extra few goals a game in a vain hope to pinch a couple of games against lower clubs, I think Hardwick is smarter than that. Its more about getting structures or systems in place that will eventually win games against better sides, in which players can be taken out of and replaced without any real disruption to the teams functionality, as opposed to the days when it seemed that the coaches instructions were no more than "kick it to Richo, he'll do the rest "

[Stripes]

finally come rnd 1 and this will tread on toes but i would like to see a team looking something like this at least.

B/   Farmer - Gourdis - Moore.
HB/ Deledio - Post - Dea.
C/  Grigg - Martin - Newman
HF/ Houli - Miller - Morton.
F/  Astbury - Riewoldt - Hicks.
R/  Graham - tuck - foley.
I/ pick 6, connors, edwards, nd pick or mature recruit.

I like most of the team you have here claw but I have a few problems too.

Firstly, I feel our half back line was one of our greatest strengths in the later part of the year in 2010. Three creative and clean ball users in Deledio, Newman and Connors were are real strength of the team which provided us much confidence moving forward, penetrating zones and moving the ball into our F50. Having three made it very difficult for the opposition in trying to stop this run and ball movement. Dea would not supply this type of ball flow and is struggling to even get a game at the moment due to lack of experience, need for further development and injury. Perhaos one day but at the moment this is a crutial area to ensure we remain strong in and I believe this is the exact reason Hardwick has these players across the half backline at the moment.

I agree that we should have a left footer on the left wing who can burst through traffic and launch it 60m into our forwardline to allow for our KPPs to have a one out contest with their direct opponents. It's just that I don't agree with the player you have. I would say this is Grigg's position (if he earns it over the preseason) with Newman behind him on the same side of the ground but in the half backline.

For mine, they are grooming Astbury for the CHB position and Post for the forwardline/2nd ruck role. Astbury has the footskills and poise to make an excellent backman while Post seems still too raw for this responsibility as yet. The backline should always be the first priority in terms of development along with the midfield and I think this is why our forwardline seems the least settled at present of the areas of the ground.

Miller will be a backup. I can't see him playing many games unless our forwardline begins to crumble, forwards are underpeforming and/or we have injuries to key personale. I believe very strongly that Miller has been brought in as much for his leadership and coaching capabilities as much as his playing ability.

i would also have White over Hicks at the moment until Hicks has the body strength to play defensively as well as offensively in the forwardline. White has the pace and the size now to play through the middle and forwardline so I think, until he is pushed out of the team, he deserves his place.

Cotchin would come in for any of the other midfielders on both ability and structure.

So here would be my team for Round One -

B/   Astbury - Gourdis - McGuane/Moore.
HB/ Connors - Deledio - Newman.
C/  Martin - Cotchin - Grigg
HF/ Houli - Griffiths - Morton.
F/  White - Riewoldt - King.
R/  Graham - Jackson - Foley.
I/ Post/TV, Tuck, Edwards
Sub/ Pick 6/Nason

Other young players may change this as the year progresses but this seems to me to be our best side at present.

Stripes

[the_boy_jake]

Karmichael Hunt - should be a laugh

[Heart of Darkness]

Think Al is on the money with the Miller issue. What is so important in modern footy is structure, cohesiveness and discipline. If Miller is indeed picked up by us then hopefully he can help with these issues. There is nothing wrong with picking up recycled players as long as they are there for the right reason; to help structurally and physically protect the young players. Leigh Brown, an average footballer at best, has excelled at this role with collingwood. We can't forget that Jack's develoment was helped by the fact he had richo there in the forward line taking many of the hits and attention.

God forbid some Injury hitting Jack next year I think it would be dangerous to have griffiths or post as your key forwards. They would face a physical beating and quite possible a real dent to their confidence. This is where I believe Miller would be of great use to continue to allow our cubs to develop at the right pace.

Think your team stripes is on the money though I would replace white in the forward line with post as I think it is to small otherwise with white king houli and Morton all there. There is no way that Dea or Hicks would be in our best 22 injury free at this stage.

[WilliamPowell]

Looking forward to seeing all new Tiger players get some game time in 2011

Hoping that Post gets the message and shows some want & desire to be out there - surely has to be under the pump a bit

Want to see a full season of Trent Cotchin 

Looking forward to seeing Griffiths back and playing

[Stripes]

Foley is the player I am most interested in seeing step up next year. First step is to get through a full preseason and then we'll hold our breath from there. I see Foley as a bonus player now as we seem to have a goog midfield unit forming even without him.

Griffiths is the other big player for me to wait and see. Another player who has had an injury cloud hanging over him for the start of his short career. I would see the year as a big success if he can play 18+ games and build on his form from last year. He has such an upside to his game even based on what I saw in the few games he lined up in our jumper. With his pace, kicking, marking ability and awareness I have my fingers crossed that his shoulders will come good.

Post & Rance are two players that desperately need to show improvement for their future. Time doesn't stand still and promise isn't enough. Both probably have the next two years to develop but Post in particular needs to put in the hard yards over the preseason to start to realize him potential this year. 

I have a feeling Nason played above himself this year and may have second year blues such as what Nahas has had but regardless, along with King and even Tuck I'm curious to see if they can maintain their 2010 form.

In general, I will be interested to see how all the second year players including Webberly, Gourdis, Grimes, Astbury and Martin will perform. Will they continue to step up or some drop back?

Looking forward to when footy starts again...only 4 months to go 

Stripes

[Mr Magic]

Cotchin - After a full pre season I think Trent will be raring to go.

Edwards - Think he really came on last year. Expect to see him spend plenty of time in the midfield.

Foley - This guy fit is crucial to our improvement.

Taylor - Genuine X-Factor.

[mightytiges]

Think Al is on the money with the Miller issue. What is so important in modern footy is structure, cohesiveness and discipline. If Miller is indeed picked up by us then hopefully he can help with these issues. There is nothing wrong with picking up recycled players as long as they are there for the right reason; to help structurally and physically protect the young players. Leigh Brown, an average footballer at best, has excelled at this role with collingwood. We can't forget that Jack's develoment was helped by the fact he had richo there in the forward line taking many of the hits and attention.

I would say the opposite happened which helped Jack's development. Richo was moved out to the wing which allowed our mids to see our other forwards as goto options rather than being Richo-centric and always kicking it towards the big fella even when he had 4 defenders hanging off him. On Leigh Brown he wasn't recruited until the Pies were already a consistent finals side making PFs. He was a 3rd tall/2nd ruck who fitted into an existing structure behind more importantly key players (Jolly, Cloke and Dawes); the structure wasn't build around him with him filling in as insurance in front of youth while they were replenishing their list 2004-6.

[tony_montana]

Think Al is on the money with the Miller issue. What is so important in modern footy is structure, cohesiveness and discipline. If Miller is indeed picked up by us then hopefully he can help with these issues. There is nothing wrong with picking up recycled players as long as they are there for the right reason; to help structurally and physically protect the young players. Leigh Brown, an average footballer at best, has excelled at this role with collingwood. We can't forget that Jack's develoment was helped by the fact he had richo there in the forward line taking many of the hits and attention.

God forbid some Injury hitting Jack next year I think it would be dangerous to have griffiths or post as your key forwards. They would face a physical beating and quite possible a real dent to their confidence. This is where I believe Miller would be of great use to continue to allow our cubs to develop at the right pace.

Think your team stripes is on the money though I would replace white in the forward line with post as I think it is to small otherwise with white king houli and Morton all there. There is no way that Dea or Hicks would be in our best 22 injury free at this stage.

yes but the bottom line is why have melbourne opted to not excercise this wisdom with miller? They, if anything, are in an even worse position when it comes to having young raw key fwds, , watts and Jurruh are toothpicks and need physical help dont they?

no matter what anybody sayss, i see it as a complete and utter waste of a spot and if the rumours about hislop are true, then thats 2 rookie spots given away to nothing players, between post, astbury, griffiths and vickery between them they can fill the role throughout the season, Vicks, griff and Post will be pushing 100kgs each, fair units.

[Penelope]

Fully agree about the richo factor there MT. I think Richo highlights exactly why you have player to fit a structure, rather than structuring around a player.

St kilda are structured around the lesser Reiwoldt. When he went down they really struggled and then when they learned to play without him, he returned and they had trouble adjusting again.

I see Miller as fitting the structure, rather than the structure fitting Miller, which I believe is an important difference.

If we do recruit Miller as a rookie, he will be like the spare wheel in the boot of a car - something to keep the machine rolling short term if needed.

[tony_montana]

back on topic

next season is huge in the overall scheme of things for this footy club. Dimma seemingly hasnt put a foot wrong and has been impressive with how he is obviously instilling a real team ethos. Next year is the big test, potential second year blues for not only 1st year players but also the seasoned players who showed improvement under him, will it continue or was it the standard spike under a new coach which happens at a lot of clubs.

 im most interested in seeing how last years 1st year players back up. Will Dusty be even more brutally strong? will Astbury improve? how will Nason back it up? Will Griffs shoulders hold up or will another shoulder have us concerned he's got serious long term issues

As well as players like Post, Vickery and Gourdis who are now at the stage where you expect to see more and more glimpses. All 3 should be units after another preseason.

Other notables are Foley and cotchin, will they be fully fit?


Next season is the big one for me, reckon we'll have a pretty good idea of where we're at  moving fwd come round 16-17