Author Topic: Bad luck Folks  (Read 39853 times)

Offline Tigeritis™©®

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9664
  • Richmond, Premiers 2017.2019.2020
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #90 on: July 31, 2011, 08:50:15 AM »
I hope Richmond gets Bailey once the dees sack him seeing that all the staff we've recruited from Melbourne have been so successful. ;D
The club that keeps giving.

Offline RollsRoyce

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 1296
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #91 on: July 31, 2011, 08:57:57 AM »
so we tanked last year?  ;D


I heard someone on abc talkback after the game critisise bailey for the number of players he started with out of position.
Jurrah on the wing was one and there was another 2 or 3 that i missed.

thats what some people claim melbourne did when they accuse them of tanking.
Melbourne tanking was that game where Jordie kicked the winning goal after the siren. They had their whole defence up forward and their whole forward line in defence. We were just so bad we still almost lost. Some Demon fans walked out of the 'G in disgust when Pettard put them in front with 5 minutes to go. The rest cheered and sang our theme song after Jordie kicked that goal.

The most alarming stat for us is if you take just the first 11 rounds of the past 5 years we've won just 10 of those from 55 games. If that's not a Club that needs help via priority picks then I don't know who does. Our season is over if not within the first month then the first two. Winning games against bottom clubs in the second half of the year seems to just allow those at the Club believe we are not that bad when we are. Our list is still in a poor state despite the top end of it having half-a-dozen or so potential A-graders. We are still a bare minimum 2-3 years away from being a finals contender and that's based on us doing everything right including when free agency comes in.

Another thing I remember from that game was that Melbourne had their resting ruckman pick up Nathan Brown. He may have lost a yard after his knee, but it was still one of many strange match-ups that day :whistle

Offline Penelope

  • Internet nuffer and sooky jellyfish
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12777
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #92 on: July 31, 2011, 09:12:38 AM »
how you define it is the crux of the point though Y+B

Tanking in it's literal sense is taking a dive, coming from an old phrase used in the US to go into the tank - a swimming pool was called a tank, so to dive = to go into the tank = tanking

Ok now i digress.

If when you say other teams have tanked and you are talking about simply smart player management at the end of the season that smart teams have done even before there was a draft system ,or even before there was priority picksthen there is not really anything to recover from.

If you are talking about a team taking measures with the sole intent of trying to loose, then that is a different kettle of fish as this sort of thing will have some sort of affect on morale and particularly club culture. I know if i had ever run out and found out that someone had been taking measure to ensure we lost despite our efforts i would want to punch the low life cads. I'd be pretty sure any one with an ounce of competitive spirit would feel the same, regardless of what level you played footy.

That is why i put that question to you, to determine exactly what you mean when you say tanking otherwise we end up arguing when we are not even referring to the same thing.  :P

I have only ever had a case put forward that a team has truly tanked ( i take the term to literally mean it's true meaning) for Melbourne and the main argument was they played players out of position.

so now we see the same team with the same coach cop the same critism after a heavy soul destroying loss, in a season that this club is supposed to be on the way up yet has copped large losses pretty much all year.

surely that raises questions about what is what? is he just a dildo coach with NFI, or did he actively set out to loose and this is the culture he has created, or perhaps only fostered?

Wallace even admitted that there was a game where he did nothing to stem the tide, so that in itself is a form of tanking but even that raises questions.

was wallace even capable doing anything if he had wanted? is he that vain and of low character that he would prefer to be known as tanker rather than a bad coach?

or was that really his attitude, a cancerous one that flowed through the club giving us the heartless, gutless, weak as pee side that had all the fighting spirit of a sea sponge?









“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline WilliamPowell

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 40368
  • Better to ignore a fool than encourage one
    • One Eyed Richmond
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #93 on: July 31, 2011, 10:09:35 AM »
Chutney said to me earlier this year that the players at Melb were not happy with the way MacDonald was shafted ....

Have to say yesterday's loss puts alot of things into perspective for me at least

We (RFC) are constantly being compared to the Dees list wise, keep getting told their list is better etc, leadership (on field) wise

yesterday showed that Melb have far bigger problems than we do because theirs run much deeper

they tanked for picks - got the cream of the crop IMHO they were no brainer selections.

But I reckon there has to be massive questions marks on their ability to develop players

Oh and BTW their game plan is a crap  :rollin :rollin

 
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Tigeritis™©®

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 9664
  • Richmond, Premiers 2017.2019.2020
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #94 on: July 31, 2011, 12:02:59 PM »
I've always wondered about bad culture and loser mentality at clubs.

When I was a boy the tigers were the biggest club in the VFL. Ruthless on and off the field.
I used to wonder what it would be like to barrack for a loser club like Footscray, Stkilda, Sth Melbourne, Fitzroy and Melbourne.
It used to frustrate me when we ever got close to losing to any of those teams.

Clubs like Collingwood Essendon Geelong and especially Carlton have an arrogance and expect only success beyond all else. These clubs don't seem to accept mediocrity at all. It's no wonder these clubs don't spend too much time down the lower half of the ladder.

Richmond is like ALL other mediocre clubs. They accept mediocrity on and off the field.
Like Cook at Geelong, Gale must rid the club of ALL things mediocre not accepting anything less than excellence. If he fails in this Richmond WILL always remain like Melbourne and other loser clubs.    
The club that keeps giving.

Hellenic Tiger

  • Guest
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #95 on: July 31, 2011, 12:28:16 PM »
Bailey and Melbourne?

the question is, and this is a serious question not a snipe,

is what Melbourne are dishing up under Bailey what you create when your foundation is built on deliberately loosing games?

or..

when people accuse Melbourne of tanking, is it really just a case of a crap coach of a crap team, rather than a team setting out to emulate the Pakistani cricket team?
Just a rumour but word on the Demons' forums is all isn't well behind the scenes within their footy dept. They are pointing the finger at the playing group still being upset at the poor treatment of then captain James MacDonald when he was cut at the end of last year. If there is any disunity behind the scenes it would eventually show onfield.

Our 157 point loss to Geelong in 2007 was the week that Gaspar was told to hang up his boots. May have some creedence.

Offline yellowandback

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 4025
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #96 on: July 31, 2011, 12:56:02 PM »
Al, so if I have this right - playing your team out of position is a pure tank versus booking players in for early surgery as it could be deemed player management?
I do not think that there are similar numbers of players booked for early surgery as "player management" today compared to 30 years ago. It is completely different today - for professional reasons and because the draft gives you more to gain by "booking players" into surgery earlier.
The pure tank has many more examples that that Demons game you refer to.
Carlton vs Melbourne at the end of 2008, Richmond vs Hawthorn was as well - that was the single most disgusting game of football I have attended - hawthorn treated it like a praccy match and there was one involving Freo that landed them Haselby.

That is taking the tank to it's lowest common denominator - agreed.

I would still maintain that booking players in for early surgery and coaching the "go through the motions" is a form of at least "giving up" if you don't want to use tanking.

It is still taking a cynical approach in that it is used to leverage draft picks.

It never happened before the draft system so isn't it ultimately trying the achieve the same result?

I'd also add, is it not valid to do in the odd year as an opportunistic measure I.e magpies and hawks?

Compared to:-

A Systematic "tanking" or "giving up" over several year which i have an issue because it defines part of the culture of that era. It will be interesting to see how far the Blues go with this current list.
It's that simple Spud
"I discussed (it) with my three daughters, my wife and my 82-year-old mum, because it has really affected me … If those comments … were made about one of my daughters, it would make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I would not have liked it at all.”

Offline one-eyed

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 98424
    • One-Eyed Richmond
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #97 on: July 31, 2011, 01:05:59 PM »
Chutney said to me earlier this year that the players at Melb were not happy with the way MacDonald was shafted ....
 
Caro agrees with you WP. They aren't happy with Cameron Schwab who according to Caro will be gone today. Caro also claimed if Schwab goes then Scully will stay.

SportsNewsFirst is reporting both Schwab and Bailey are set to walk ...

DEAN Bailey may not be the only casualty of Melbourne’s darkest day, with Demons CEO Cameron Schwab also on the precipice – as one of the players admitted they didn’t care during the debacle against Geelong.

http://www.sportsnewsfirst.com.au/articles/2011/07/31/schwab-and-bailey-set-to-walk-the-plank/

10 FLAGS

  • Guest
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #98 on: July 31, 2011, 01:09:25 PM »
I feel sorry for Dean Bailey he comes across as a really decent family man. A very decent bloke. Hes done a good job at Melbourne. Sat at the bottom, collected the picks. They will trash his career and IMHO he deserves better than that.

Offline TigerLand

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 5739
  • I <3 Mrs Hardwick
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #99 on: July 31, 2011, 01:10:26 PM »
Chutney said to me earlier this year that the players at Melb were not happy with the way MacDonald was shafted ....

Have to say yesterday's loss puts alot of things into perspective for me at least

We (RFC) are constantly being compared to the Dees list wise, keep getting told their list is better etc, leadership (on field) wise

yesterday showed that Melb have far bigger problems than we do because theirs run much deeper

they tanked for picks - got the cream of the crop IMHO they were no brainer selections.

But I reckon there has to be massive questions marks on their ability to develop players

Oh and BTW their game plan is a crap  :rollin :rollin

 

Can't draft leadership, tanking and losing culture will never develop any leadership.

Can't win flags without great leadership. As much as Maxwell isn't a footballs rectum, kills me to say he's a great leader and his development as a captain was a big reason they have improved so much.
Go Tigers!

Jackstar is back again

  • Guest
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #100 on: July 31, 2011, 01:11:00 PM »
Bailey and Melbourne?

the question is, and this is a serious question not a snipe,

is what Melbourne are dishing up under Bailey what you create when your foundation is built on deliberately loosing games?

or..

when people accuse Melbourne of tanking, is it really just a case of a crap coach of a crap team, rather than a team setting out to emulate the Pakistani cricket team?
Just a rumour but word on the Demons' forums is all isn't well behind the scenes within their footy dept. They are pointing the finger at the playing group still being upset at the poor treatment of then captain James MacDonald when he was cut at the end of last year. If there is any disunity behind the scenes it would eventually show onfield.

Our 157 point loss to Geelong in 2007 was the week that Gaspar was told to hang up his boots. May have some creedence.

can tell you the Gaspar episode was a sad period at RFC

Offline WilliamPowell

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 40368
  • Better to ignore a fool than encourage one
    • One Eyed Richmond
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #101 on: July 31, 2011, 01:32:09 PM »
Chutney said to me earlier this year that the players at Melb were not happy with the way MacDonald was shafted ....
 
Caro agrees with you WP. They aren't happy with Cameron Schwab who according to Caro will be gone today. Caro also claimed if Schwab goes then Scully will stay.

SportsNewsFirst is reporting both Schwab and Bailey are set to walk ...

Nah Caro is agreeing with Chutney who I happen to agree with too  ;D

Schwab wasa dud CEO at the Tigers, the Dees the first time but looked good at the Dockers because he the resoruces around him ... this time at the Dees ....well I've heard the rumour too that if Schwab goes Scully stays .... that means the CEO has far to much input into Footy matters IMHO
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Jackstar is back again

  • Guest
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #102 on: July 31, 2011, 01:36:45 PM »
Its amazing how a clown like Schwab has lasted so long in the AFL system.
At punt road when KB was coach, he demanded that he sit in the box with KB each week.
No wonder KB had a major fallout with him.
Ordinary bloke is C.Schwab

Offline WilliamPowell

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 40368
  • Better to ignore a fool than encourage one
    • One Eyed Richmond
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #103 on: July 31, 2011, 01:38:17 PM »
Its amazing how a clown like Schwab has lasted so long in the AFL system.
At punt road when KB was coach, he demanded that he sit in the box with KB each week.
No wonder KB had a major fallout with him.
Ordinary bloke is C.Schwab

 :thumbsup
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

10 FLAGS

  • Guest
Re: Bad luck Folks
« Reply #104 on: July 31, 2011, 01:45:50 PM »
I wanted to stay out of this Cameron Schwab discussion but lets just say I'm not disappointed either  ;D