Is Hardwick the man for the job. What did we expect.

[the claw]

The issue is how we get out of the current problems. This years draft is considered fairly weak in some quarters, I am a fan of chasing the 17yo picks from GWS as a starting point and then taking what we can from the draft. The 2012 draft is considered strong and we the compensation pick so our position is relatively strong. Anyway, from a redevelopment and development point of view how do you see us going about improving our stocks?

no the issue is how long will it take to get out of our current problems.
if we are expecting 17 yr old 18 yrold kids from this yrs draft to magically take us up the ladder we are in the wrong caper. any kid we take this yr will not have a significant impact for 3 seasons and depending on type and size and overall skill set of each longer.

we have two ways of growing the list one of them is obviouly quicker than the other. you want a quick fix we can trade our picks for mature players we can also target older players in trades psd etc but we have been there and done that for 25 yrs and it has not worked.
we must continue to utilise our early picks in the nd, we have to become the best we possibly can  at selecting kids out of this pool.trouble is to get 4 or 5 draft pools to develop you are looking at a 6 7 8 yr period.

first things first we need to build a decent core of kids  when we have achieved that we can trasde for needs and the cream on top.
to build a core of kids say 20 24 players we are looking at 5 yrs plus. this does not take into account the up to standard young players we currently have if say we have 10 we are still looking at another 3 drafts of basic list building.
why this long well take a look at all clubs in all drafts you are doing well to find 4 or 5 players each draft/trade period. with lists around 45, and with a 10 yr life span of each player if your lucky  you need to find 4 or 5 players just to tread water.
 in our case if we found 8 afl standard players over the next 2 drafts we would improve dramatically imo. as we have so many who are below standard. but we wont get any real benefit from those 8 players for 3 or 4 seasons because this is how long it takes to get them up to speed if you get it right.

we need to understand just how long it is going to take and just perhaps a lot of the wrist slashing that goes on will disappear.

[yellowandback]

Sorry sunshine but results speak volumes. If you want to talk about hypothetical re- builds eff off to government, they'll love you and your bullpoo theories.


Our list was able to smash Dockers and beat bombres, lions and kangas. We were clearly the better side against the Saints so it was a solid 1st 9 rounds.

We would be on track to win 2-3 games if we get back to the intensity and effort of the above games.
I'm sure most posters would not bitch about a lack of talent losing games, it is the complete lack of run, tackling pressure and general intensity that is disappointing.

I'm not saying we are elite, ffs we are talking winning a couple more than last year but no one can tell me losing 12 of our 13 games to finish off the season is expected?


Even you could get you head around that julia

[WilliamPowell]

With all the wrist slashing and the knives being thrown at Hardwick i had to ask these questions.

The answer to the first is we dont know and probably wont know for at least 2 seasons.the only thing im concerned about as far as the coach goes is what happens at the end of season not what happens thru it.
If we dont continue to cull and sell our early picks for retreads i will be very concerned.

has he made mistakes you bet ya will he continue to make mistakes you bet ya. sheesh after 9 seasons worsfold nearly got the sack i dont think people realise just how close he went.why because he kept on making mistakes and refused to change.personally i have never rated him as a coach  but the point is after nine yrs, after 4 or 5 yrs of finals and a premiership   he was still making his fair share of mistakes and getting things wrong.
mark thomson went within a whisker of going at the end of 06 after 7 yrs and some promising finals appearances he nearly got the behind.why because he made too many mistakes.

the point im making we have a second yr coach with not a lot of experience around him attempting to build a side almost from the same low ebb as gc but without the concessions and help from the afl of course. he will make mistakes and plenty of them along the way just like very experienced coaches make mistakes. if people think a worsfold or thomson or a malthouse could walk into the club and turn it around in a short space of time they  are truly deluded. and you could bet your bottom dollar they would make their fair share of mistakes along the way.

what do we expect from hardwick atm. well the answer to that is very little other than the patently obvious and doing the hard yards continuing to turn over lots of players and putting basic processes in place.
so far he has turned over what 23 players come seasons end it could well swell to 33 35 players.with more to come the yr after. what does this tell us if we use just a bit of logic. we are yet to bottom out.

what does he have at his disposal as far as cattle goes atm.

well imo he has just 2 100 gamers of decent quality. he has few experinced players of genuine afl quality and hes having to play many kids who are no where near ready and wont be for at least 2  3 seasons.
exactly what did we expect when we take into account all these factors. a bottom 4 list is ordinary no matter how much you dress it up its still a bottom 4 list.

in many ways the club and the media have much to answer for.
the club for failing to make it abundantly clear to all and sundry exactly where the list is at and just how hard and long  it will be to do any thing about it. i mean things like benny gales 70k - 2- 14 or what ever it was just raises expectations and imo unrealistic expectations. but hes right in so much of what he says we need to kill of debt we need to massively invest in recruiting and specialist personel.the ftf is great but he had to do it in a way that said hey it may take us 7 yrs before we play in a gf but if we do these things it will go a long way to getting us there.

the media well simply put they are sheep and dont think for themselves. any journalist with just a modicum of intelligence would see that we are nowhere near it and havent been for a long long time.instead we defeat a few ordinary sides in favorable circumstances and they feed the flames of delusion.

anyway enough of a rant for now is hardwick the man for the job i dont know im sure most dont either i dont get this blaming one bloke caper after hes made a few mistakeswhen we all know he will make em its weather he learns from them that is the key. what did we expect sheesh the way so many are carrying on you would think a premiership.

 

 

Excellent post Claw

[Jackstar is back again]

Chipping it sideways when you have a 6 goal wind blowing on the back of your neck is almost unforgivable

excellent post

[Ox]

What i expected

 1- Anyone who cant kick to NOT get a game- bzzzzzzz fail
 
2. - to at worst remain competitive
Bzzzzzzz- fail

Y did i expect this?
Bevause this is what he promosed ... At worst.

By his own standards hes failed

[Jackstar is back again]

Dimma has gone back on his own standards.
he refuses to give players games and plays favorites eg Jacskon and Edwards
Both are the biggest butchers of a football you will ever see .

[Ox]

And u reckon foley aint a butcher?

Mate,hes the stuffing worst. Hs been his whole career.
Another hack hailed as royalty at the rfc

[Jackstar is back again]

And u reckon foley aint a butcher?

Mate,hes the effing worst. Hs been his whole career.
Another hack hailed as royalty at the rfc

agree there, should be traded

[WilliamPowell]

And u reckon foley aint a butcher?

Mate,hes the effing worst. Hs been his whole career.
Another hack hailed as royalty at the rfc

agree there, should be traded

If you want him traded then they have to keep playing him don't they?

Zero currency if he is running around for Coburg 

[Jackstar is back again]

hahaha, we traded to get Jordan McMahon who played most of the season at Werribee

[yellowandback]

What i expected

 1- Anyone who cant kick to NOT get a game- bzzzzzzz fail
 
2. - to at worst remain competitive
Bzzzzzzz- fail

Y did i expect this?
Bevause this is what he promosed ... At worst.

By his own standards hes failed

3. When it's your turn to go, you go Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[WilliamPowell]

hahaha, we traded to get Jordan McMahon who played most of the season at Werribee

Yeah but we aren't talking about trading players in we are talking about how to trade out a player

[Ox]

What i expected

 1- Anyone who cant kick to NOT get a game- bzzzzzzz fail
 
2. - to at worst remain competitive
Bzzzzzzz- fail

Y did i expect this?
Bevause this is what he promosed ... At worst.

By his own standards hes failed

3. When it's your turn to go, you go Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wtf does that even mean??

[10 FLAGS]

The issue is how we get out of the current problems. This years draft is considered fairly weak in some quarters, I am a fan of chasing the 17yo picks from GWS as a starting point and then taking what we can from the draft. The 2012 draft is considered strong and we the compensation pick so our position is relatively strong. Anyway, from a redevelopment and development point of view how do you see us going about improving our stocks?

no the issue is how long will it take to get out of our current problems.
if we are expecting 17 yr old 18 yrold kids from this yrs draft to magically take us up the ladder we are in the wrong caper. any kid we take this yr will not have a significant impact for 3 seasons and depending on type and size and overall skill set of each longer.

we have two ways of growing the list one of them is obviouly quicker than the other. you want a quick fix we can trade our picks for mature players we can also target older players in trades psd etc but we have been there and done that for 25 yrs and it has not worked.
we must continue to utilise our early picks in the nd, we have to become the best we possibly can  at selecting kids out of this pool.trouble is to get 4 or 5 draft pools to develop you are looking at a 6 7 8 yr period.

first things first we need to build a decent core of kids  when we have achieved that we can trasde for needs and the cream on top.
to build a core of kids say 20 24 players we are looking at 5 yrs plus. this does not take into account the up to standard young players we currently have if say we have 10 we are still looking at another 3 drafts of basic list building.
why this long well take a look at all clubs in all drafts you are doing well to find 4 or 5 players each draft/trade period. with lists around 45, and with a 10 yr life span of each player if your lucky  you need to find 4 or 5 players just to tread water.
 in our case if we found 8 afl standard players over the next 2 drafts we would improve dramatically imo. as we have so many who are below standard. but we wont get any real benefit from those 8 players for 3 or 4 seasons because this is how long it takes to get them up to speed if you get it right.

we need to understand just how long it is going to take and just perhaps a lot of the wrist slashing that goes on will disappear.

Just one point when I say I support going after the GWS's u17 picks I dont expect them to improve us next year or the year after, what I am suggesting is that these picks could be a way of getting another potential  A grade standard player for the future.

[the claw]

Sorry sunshine but results speak volumes. If you want to talk about hypothetical re- builds eff off to government, they'll love you and your bullpoo theories.


Our list was able to smash Dockers and beat bombres, lions and kangas. We were clearly the better side against the Saints so it was a solid 1st 9 rounds.

We would be on track to win 2-3 games if we get back to the intensity and effort of the above games.
I'm sure most posters would not bitch about a lack of talent losing games, it is the complete lack of run, tackling pressure and general intensity that is disappointing.

I'm not saying we are elite, ffs we are talking winning a couple more than last year but no one can tell me losing 12 of our 13 games to finish off the season is expected?


Even you could get you head around that julia

oh dear another deluded feral. its a lack of talent alright.and you can add in the things you said as well they sort of go hand in hand anyway.
  and if you think beating an injury ravaged freo in melb was a good win you truly are deluded the local u12s would have rolled them at the time.lol we beat bombers in a tight game how many did they have out  and when things were equal second time around what happened. a pee poor team rolled us.will they make the 8 i doubt it and if they do they will only be making up the numbers.
lions twice where are they again who did they have out and the  kangas  both struggled early in the season and again both had serious injury problems when we played them, will either side make the 8.
 bloody hell you hang your hat on beating mediocre sides and pretend it means something. me ill call the hacks exactly what they are hacks, and anticipate another bottom 4 finish its been as plain as the nose on your face all yr and last yr.we are like school yard bullies beating up on the weak and injured but as soon as someone decent  stands up to us we go to water its been the same for yrs.

you over rate the players and you place far to much importance on the wins we have. where will we finish probably 15th haveing lost 8 or 10 in a row.  what happened last yr oh thats right we finished 15th having lost 9 in a row, and when we won a few meaningless games against mediocrity last yr in similar circumstances ferals like you were proclaiming them.

 give me a freakin break good sides with decent players dont finish 15th  have massive losing streaks and only manage to defeat fellow battlers or injury ravaged sides. nope only  mediocre sides full of ordinary footballers do that. where did we finish in 09 oh thats right 15th the same mediocre players doing the same mediocre things.
dont blame the coach or the kids put the blame firmly where it belongs with the players. while we have so many glass half fulls we will remain exactly what we are very ordinary.