Author Topic: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum  (Read 8003 times)

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2011, 06:25:15 PM »
March and Cameron are running the place
People get put into positions for a reason ;)
As for romance, nah, i want success
and success comes from hard ruthless decisions in Football Clubs
we just ''pussy foot"' around and go around in circles, as we have done for 30 years.
Yep, give Dimma more time, nice bloke, but nice blokes dont make good coaches.
he has gone back on his word on many occassions this year, and this is only reflected by recent poor UNACCEPTABLE perfomances

So if people get put into positions for a reason why would Malthouse change things if March and Cameron are pulling the strings? Mick seems quite autocratic and wouldn't want anyone or anything cutting his lunch. Just look at the friction between him and Buckley. Would March or Cameron based on what you wrote step aside for Mick then? Why waste the last two years and what of Benny Gale's role. Too far fetched Jack.

Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?
I don't nor do I claim I do. I don't know what Benny does but I doubt he will move on Cameron while he still has 2 years on his contract. The club is 6 mil in debt and asking the fans for money I doubt they will pay out Cameron or Hardwick and trhen ask fans to foot the bill later on to pay the debt.

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #46 on: July 19, 2011, 06:31:33 PM »
and I might also add these discussions took place when we were winning games
As I informed someone else on this forum several months ago ;) that there are moves behind the scenes, that person did dismiss them though. although discussions have taken place.


What were these discussions about, and why were they not shared earlier.
Would the club pay out a contract of a coach on a 3 yr deal with 18 months to run while they ask fans to help erase a 6 million dollar debt?
So are these talks distabilising the club and affecting the teams performance?
Come on Jack according to you I thought Sheeds was going to be our coach in 2009 FACT.
It seems the panic merchants at RFC do their best work in the midst of a losing streak summoning support through a forum of peddling easy answers.

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #47 on: July 19, 2011, 06:40:23 PM »

Its blokes like Cameron and march who are bringing this club down off field.

How?

I have no proof and if I am wrong happy to acknowledge that I have erred but just my opinion Smoke I feel March is not the man to take us forward. Seems very overeactive and does not handle limelight well. Furthermore has had a few gaffs publically when talking to the club. To me he just does not command respect. Furthermore he has had six years to help erase debt and create an environment on the up off field but it has only been created through Benny's influence I believe rather than anything Gary has proactively implemented.

Craig on the other hand I feel has a very poor track record. We hastily recruited him after Greg Miller was vacated and IMHO I feel he has failed to shape our list with any verve or positivity. He had a poor record at Melb and I feel that he is following up with this here. Draft wise we have done okay but I think that his legacy will be forgotten quickly once his five years are up. I also think that he has had a few public gaffs in his time also here.

Maybe you could ask Jack to PM you about these secret discussions at the club even when we were playing well. I don't know Smokey I just gave you my opinion. :thumbsup


Offline Smokey

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #48 on: July 19, 2011, 07:25:32 PM »
Fair enough Tucker.  Just asked because so many are highlighting these 2 as the root cause of most of our current ills and I was not privy to what they had done to deserve this.

I don't agree with the bagging of March, even though he might not be the most media savvy and dynamic of presidents, I have no issue whatsoever with the job he has done since being elected president.  The club off-field is now light years ahead of where it was when he took over and the rescue job he has overseen could not have been achieved any quicker by most others.  The FTF is not the beginning of this, it is just the current stage of our club's climb from the bottom, and to say he has failed by not eradicating the debt in 6 years is not a fair summation of the task that was required to get our club out of the financial 'woods'.  Yep, needed to speak up at times when he didn't, needed to shut up at times when he did, but his performance as President has largely been one of salvation for our club - we were in dire straits when Casey departed - and I don't agree with those flagging March when looking for the nearest scapegoat because the on-field results don't satisfy their immediate need.

I have no real opinion of Cameron one way or the other but I don't know what more he could have done since taking up his position as GM Football Operations in Sept 08.  He has only been in charge for 3 drafts - 1 under Wallace and 2 under Hardwick - and even though he has the final say on list management, he would have been influenced significantly by Wallace's requirements in his first year so it's a tough call to be blaming him when he has also been responsible for Hardwick's 2 drafts that most on here laud as being satisfactory at the least.  Like I said, I don't have a real strong opinion one way or the other on him but I certainly don't have a sense of him being the reason for our perceived failure thus far.

But, like you say, its all our opinions and I'm sure the reality swims around them somewhere.

the claw

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #49 on: July 19, 2011, 07:45:26 PM »
What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.

Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.

The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.

We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.

Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.

There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
here here well said.
i for one dont know if hardwick is the man for the job or not. but im more than prepared to give him a decent amont of time to show he can improve us long term.
i will happily point out his errors and there have been a few to now but i will also balance it out with many other thinhgs.

its pretty simple for me atm i dont believe for a second that onfield success is the no1 priority for our club atm. i dont expect long term onfield success until we get our house in order and actually put the horse in front of the cart.
this does not mean that anyone at the club should be exempt from criticism when they get things wrong or show over a period of time they are not up to the task at hand.i truly think our supporters are very reactionary they never ever weigh up the pros and cons of where the club off field is at or what the talent at the club is capable of.what it always amounts to is people over rating the list the clubs ability to recruit and develop players and when we start to lose they  have literally feral views based solely on what their own expectations are while ignoring the facts.
an example is i think most would agree we are close to a bottom 4 side yet when a fellow bottom 4 side beats us its the end of the world, sheesh the knives come out when sides higher on the ladder beat us and its all based on, bloody hell we are better than them or we should be but the actual truth is is and all the indicators say we are  only on a par or probably worse.

i dont get it how anyone can expect decent results and good ladder position with the list we have and the lack of experience quality size etc etc amazes me.and how people expect us to improve the situation when we are broke and we recruit on a shoe string budget is mind boggling.
to me most have unrealistic expectaions of the players and are unrealistic about time frames. simply put the players fall into two groups. most of the youinger ones are truly in development. most of the older ones above 22 fall into the mediocre category. this alone should be lowering expectations but does it oh no were gunna make finals. bloody ferals the bane of all sensible common sense supporters.

Offline Penelope

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #50 on: July 19, 2011, 08:01:13 PM »
now, that would be close to being best post i have read on this forum.

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Jackstar is back again

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2011, 08:13:00 PM »
Hey Tuckerbag.like it or not.the talks did take place some 8 weeks ago.I suppose the club are looking to the future and sounding out potential people to take over other people roles.

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2011, 08:19:51 PM »
Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?

 Directly or indirectly you made a nasty inference about someones character there Jack
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Jackstar is back again

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2011, 08:20:23 PM »
By the way Tuckerbag.Sheedy was approached by the RfC twice in the past 10 years to coach..Greg Miller wouldn't sign off on it at the time and again in recent times..

Jackstar is back again

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2011, 08:22:32 PM »
Now tucker
how do you know things arent happening behind the scenes to move on March and Cameron ?
Has benny gale spoken to people already to take there roles ?

 Directly or indirectly you made a nasty inference about someones character there Jack

It's no secret that there will be changes at years end

Jackstar is back again

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2011, 08:27:09 PM »
It's it a good thing that we get the best people at the club???.would of grabbed Chris Pelchen but we spoke to him too late

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2011, 08:34:31 PM »
It's it a good thing that we get the best people at the club???.would of grabbed Chris Pelchen but we spoke to him too late

All for having the best people that's what all good company's should do

But you are (like always) missing my point because it doesn't suit your argument but directly or indirectly you have a made an assertion about a persons character with what you've posted
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Offline Stripes

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2011, 08:42:21 PM »
What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.

Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.

The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.

We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.

Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.

There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.
here here well said.
i for one dont know if hardwick is the man for the job or not. but im more than prepared to give him a decent amont of time to show he can improve us long term.
i will happily point out his errors and there have been a few to now but i will also balance it out with many other thinhgs.

its pretty simple for me atm i dont believe for a second that onfield success is the no1 priority for our club atm. i dont expect long term onfield success until we get our house in order and actually put the horse in front of the cart.
this does not mean that anyone at the club should be exempt from criticism when they get things wrong or show over a period of time they are not up to the task at hand.i truly think our supporters are very reactionary they never ever weigh up the pros and cons of where the club off field is at or what the talent at the club is capable of.what it always amounts to is people over rating the list the clubs ability to recruit and develop players and when we start to lose they  have literally feral views based solely on what their own expectations are while ignoring the facts.
an example is i think most would agree we are close to a bottom 4 side yet when a fellow bottom 4 side beats us its the end of the world, sheesh the knives come out when sides higher on the ladder beat us and its all based on, bloody hell we are better than them or we should be but the actual truth is is and all the indicators say we are  only on a par or probably worse.

i dont get it how anyone can expect decent results and good ladder position with the list we have and the lack of experience quality size etc etc amazes me.and how people expect us to improve the situation when we are broke and we recruit on a shoe string budget is mind boggling.
to me most have unrealistic expectaions of the players and are unrealistic about time frames. simply put the players fall into two groups. most of the youinger ones are truly in development. most of the older ones above 22 fall into the mediocre category. this alone should be lowering expectations but does it oh no were gunna make finals. bloody ferals the bane of all sensible common sense supporters.

Good post claw - you make a far too much sense for some :)

Offline TigerLand

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #58 on: July 19, 2011, 09:09:59 PM »
What's the definition of madness - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Just having a quick scan over the current topics there are multiple threads calling for the coaches head. After 30 years, why is it that so many Tigers supporters still feel that by sacking the coach it will fix up all our problems?! Dimma is only a small part of our problems - he's made a few tactical errors - but getting rid of him now would only cause us more pain rather than less.

Our on-field and off-field woes are the result of countless such rash decisions. Every coach we have hired until Dimma has felt the pressure to appease fans such as you, and therefore traded away picks and never tried the full rebuild through fear of premature termination of their job.

The problems we now face is because of the sins of the past - we are to blame as much as any coach, any recruiter, any board member, any player. Our demand for immediate success has p1ssed away our future. The pressure we have exerted on the club which in turn helped fuel the media to escalate the frenzy, has never given the club time to do the hard yards.

We finally have a CEO and board willing to completely support the head coach with the support staff, recruiters, specialist coaches, trade 'experts' etc Mistakes are going to be made but the coaches role is not to tactically win each and every game but instead to develop the players individually firstly, minor teams (defence/forwards/midfielders etc) secondly and full team last. We are still at the individual stage at present, step one.

Malthouse will not come to our club any time soon if ever. The board are committed to Dimma whether some people on here like it or not. So rather than always point the finger at the coach understand that our problems are not tactical but rather the state of development our players are at and the glaring holes we have in personale.

There are not quick fixes so stop the finger pointing and learn from the mistakes of the past.

Stripes, I'm so glad that with all the poo on here, you still take time to share your views.

You are rarely wrong, and your post is spot on.

Winning fixes everything yes, and we can't be looking long term forever, but as much as we're all furious at the state of things Dimma employment is not the reason for the lack of success.

5 weeks ago he was a genius after the Dreamtime win.
Go Tigers!

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: OER - The Coach Sacking Forum
« Reply #59 on: July 19, 2011, 09:43:20 PM »
here here well said.
i for one dont know if hardwick is the man for the job or not. but im more than prepared to give him a decent amont of time to show he can improve us long term.
i will happily point out his errors and there have been a few to now but i will also balance it out with many other thinhgs.

its pretty simple for me atm i dont believe for a second that onfield success is the no1 priority for our club atm.....

Good post claw - you make a far too much sense for some :)

Agree - great post claw  :clapping
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)