Brandon Ellis to Gold Coast / Richmond receive pick 39 as compo [merged]

[Mr Magic]

Some stats for you Ox re Conca leading into the Dreamtime game (rd 11)

Contested Possessions = 41.2%
Uncontested =   58.80%                                 

Tackles: Conca led the side in tackles with 62

Top 5 = Conca 62, Thomas 46, Cotchin 39, Griffiths 35 & Jacko 32

Hard ball gets top 5:
Martin 37
Cotchin 36
Conca 32
Edwards 29 
Thomas 28

Make of them what you like 

Good post.

[Yeahright]

An improvement is an improvement whether it be an extra tackle a game or 5 IMO and doesn't deserve to be cited as "going backwards" which is what yellowandback said (although you somewhat disagreed). So I don't agree with your measurement of improvement being he has to reach the top 5 in stats I just think as long as it is better than his previous year.

[(•))(©™]

Some stats for you Ox re Conca leading into the Dreamtime game (rd 11)

Contested Possessions = 41.2%
Uncontested =   58.80%                                 

Tackles: Conca led the side in tackles with 62

Top 5 = Conca 62, Thomas 46, Cotchin 39, Griffiths 35 & Jacko 32

Hard ball gets top 5:
Martin 37
Cotchin 36
Conca 32
Edwards 29 
Thomas 28

Make of them what you like 

Good post.

Yeh look,  it's a funny kind of thing. Even tho, on paper he's a better player, he's not.

[JVT]

Some stats for you Ox re Conca leading into the Dreamtime game (rd 11)

Contested Possessions = 41.2%
Uncontested =   58.80%                                 

Tackles: Conca led the side in tackles with 62

Top 5 = Conca 62, Thomas 46, Cotchin 39, Griffiths 35 & Jacko 32

Hard ball gets top 5:
Martin 37
Cotchin 36
Conca 32
Edwards 29 
Thomas 28

Make of them what you like 

Good post.

Yeh look,  it's a funny kind of thing. Even tho, on paper he's a better player, he's not.

Conca has some grunt and aggression about him... Ellis lacks and we have enough bloody soft players as it is.

[WilliamPowell]

An improvement is an improvement whether it be an extra tackle a game or 5 IMO and doesn't deserve to be cited as "going backwards" which is what yellowandback said (although you somewhat disagreed). So I don't agree with your measurement of improvement being he has to reach the top 5 in stats I just think as long as it is better than his previous year.

Hold on a minute, where did I say he needed to be in the top five?

I just highlighted that in the categories you listed he still wasn't in the top 5 at the club but did that I'd be interested to know what his overall numbers re his improvements were. Eg how great is the improvement. Would be interested to know seeing he's been in the system 3 years now

As for my reply to yelloweandblack you are right I did disagree with the assertion that he's gone backwards this season.

IMV he hasn't gone backwards because IMV his performances haven't changed from last year despite what the numbers may suggest. You'd hope that by now (3 yrs in) he'd be showing more than incremental improvement.

[Judge Roughneck]

Yet at the same time, he offers abundantly more than conca

Sorry Ox, cannot agree

Granted his disposal at times is poor to say the least.... but and its a huge BUT

Conca has never pulled out of a contest, puts his head over the ball and attacks the footy. He tackles and isn't worried about getting hit

I'll take that any day over someone who gets 30 odd possessions which are predominantly made up of 20 metre chip kicks

Some stats for you Ox re Conca leading into the Dreamtime game (rd 11)

Contested Possessions = 41.2%
Uncontested =   58.80%                                 

Tackles: Conca led the side in tackles with 62

Top 5 = Conca 62, Thomas 46, Cotchin 39, Griffiths 35 & Jacko 32

Hard ball gets top 5:
Martin 37
Cotchin 36
Conca 32
Edwards 29 
Thomas 28

Make of them what you like 

shredder 

[Penelope]

Where is the "we should have drafted a packet twisties rather than Ellis" thread?

Ox you are delusional if you think Ellis is a better player than Conca.

Besides the ability to look more flashy at times, in what way is he a better player?

[Yeahright]

Hold on a minute, where did I say he needed to be in the top five?

I just highlighted that in the categories you listed he still wasn't in the top 5 at the club but did that I'd be interested to know what his overall numbers re his improvements were. Eg how great is the improvement. Would be interested to know seeing he's been in the system 3 years now

As for my reply to yelloweandblack you are right I did disagree with the assertion that he's gone backwards this season.

IMV he hasn't gone backwards because IMV his performances haven't changed from last year despite what the numbers may suggest. You'd hope that by now (3 yrs in) he'd be showing more than incremental improvement.

He may have improved his tackling stats but again going into Dreamtime he wasn't in the top 5 tacklers in the side (Conca was way out in front with 62, Jackson 5th with 32 in 7 games). Ditto with hard ball gets not in the top 5, so although his stats in certain areas may have improved they don't appear to have improved enough to get him into the top 5 in a lot of the categories.

Gives the impression that for any improvement to be acknowledged they have to burst their way into the top 5. Do you want improvement from last year or his career? What stat's just the ones I listed particularly?

Yeah you did that's why my OP was mainly directed at him  I just left you in the quote because I somewhat disagreed with what you said about us losing making us finally realising the flaws. I'd cut him some slack for incremental improvement in his 3rd year since he had a huge one in his second year, something a lot of players struggle to do.

[(•))(©™]

Where is the "we should have drafted a packet twisties rather than Ellis" thread?

Ox you are delusional if you think Ellis is a better player than Conca.

Besides the ability to look more flashy at times, in what way is he a better player?

Not I don't.
I think they're both failures at afl level.
Here r we, debating who's the "least" poo out of the two. Lol
Go Tiges

[unplugged]

Not I don't.
I think they're both failures at afl level.
Here r we, debating who's the "least" poo out of the two. Lol
Go Tiges

Lol its Edwards and Nahas all over again.  Except these high draft picks are plodders and have no pace whatsoever.

Conca tags so all he does all day is sit on a players bum and tackle them.  Irrelevant tackling stats.  Would like to see him tackle a player in the open sometime.  Ellis, well Ellis doesn't tackle.  He just drifts looking for the loose ball.  Grigg Mk 2.

[Chuck17]

So who can we bang on about that we should have drafted instead of Ellis?

[(•))(©™]

Not I don't.
I think they're both failures at afl level.
Here r we, debating who's the "least" poo out of the two. Lol
Go Tiges

Lol its Edwards and Nahas all over again.  Except these high draft picks are plodders and have no pace whatsoever.

Conca tags so all he does all day is sit on a players bum and tackle them.  Irrelevant tackling stats.  Would like to see him tackle a player in the open sometime.  Ellis, well Ellis doesn't tackle.  He just drifts looking for the loose ball.  Grigg Mk 2.

.

 I also enjoy watching conca get pinged ALL the time for holding the ball.
Not.
Lol

[WilliamPowell]

Gives the impression that for any improvement to be acknowledged they have to burst their way into the top 5. Do you want improvement from last year or his career? What stat's just the ones I listed particularly?

Yeah you did that's why my OP was mainly directed at him  I just left you in the quote because I somewhat disagreed with what you said about us losing making us finally realising the flaws. I'd cut him some slack for incremental improvement in his 3rd year since he had a huge one in his second year, something a lot of players struggle to do.

No they don't have to burst into the top 5 in categories but I think it's fair to question the numbers. As I said if his tackling numbers are showing he's gone from 1 tackle a game to 2.5 then I'd argue the number may say he's improved but  he hasn't actually improved as much as you would think someone coming into season 3 should have.

I would love to now his numbers re tackling, hard ball gets and 1% ers. The ones that I look to. Will try and fish them out because I am genuinely interested. And BTW I don't think his cause this year has been helped by the club spruiking preseason about him going to another level because he clearly hasn't

Re my view on losing making the flaws all the more clearer. I stand by that. Look at Vickery, he is playing exactly like he did last year with the intensity of carrot but last year it didn't matter as much because we were winning. People ignored it or said his 15 minute cameos were enough.

Look at Grigg & Houli we are losing in 2014 and the strangely the media are jumping up and down about their flaws. Last year not a peep from the so called experts.

Winning allows things to be over looked or ignored, losing doesn't

[Diocletian]

One thing I will say in his defence - he's an excellent and very underrated mark and plays tall for his size and for all the courage he seemigly lacks at ground level, he generally has no such issues in the air.....and he at least looks to be finding form again in that area of his game in recent weeks.

[Yeahright]

Gives the impression that for any improvement to be acknowledged they have to burst their way into the top 5. Do you want improvement from last year or his career? What stat's just the ones I listed particularly?

Yeah you did that's why my OP was mainly directed at him  I just left you in the quote because I somewhat disagreed with what you said about us losing making us finally realising the flaws. I'd cut him some slack for incremental improvement in his 3rd year since he had a huge one in his second year, something a lot of players struggle to do.

No they don't have to burst into the top 5 in categories but I think it's fair to question the numbers. As I said if his tackling numbers are showing he's gone from 1 tackle a game to 2.5 then I'd argue the number may say he's improved but  he hasn't actually improved as much as you would think someone coming into season 3 should have.

I would love to now his numbers re tackling, hard ball gets and 1% ers. The ones that I look to. Will try and fish them out because I am genuinely interested. And BTW I don't think his cause this year has been helped by the club spruiking preseason about him going to another level because he clearly hasn't

Re my view on losing making the flaws all the more clearer. I stand by that. Look at Vickery, he is playing exactly like he did last year with the intensity of carrot but last year it didn't matter as much because we were winning. People ignored it or said his 15 minute cameos were enough.

Look at Grigg & Houli we are losing in 2014 and the strangely the media are jumping up and down about their flaws. Last year not a peep from the so called experts.

Winning allows things to be over looked or ignored, losing doesn't

It certainly is fair to question the numbers and I'll agree it isn't much of an improvement but I maintain that an improvement doesn't deserved to be labelled as "going backwards"

Category                            This year               Previous year             2012
Tackling                                 3.0                            2.1                        1.7
1%'s                                      1.3                            1.0                        1.3 (could argue this is higher due to him being on a HBF)
Contested possessions         6.0                            4.8                        4.1
Disposals                               23.0                         18.6                      15.7 (only put this in because I was surprised he had more
.                                                                                                                   disposals this year to be honest)

So yep not massive improvements but still improvements. Except for 1%ers even I wouldn't bother arguing the HBF shizen.

I see your point but I just see it a bit differently. I just reckon when losing people tend to ignore the good stuff and the imrpovements and focus on the bad stuff.