Our 'Depth Team'

[Stripes]

Ok. So this 'team' are based on a little bit of speculation on my behalf so you'll have to bear with me somewhat.

Assuming every player on our list is fit and healthy -


Our 2012 'Depth Team' - based on this year selections

FB   Moore      Post       Astbury

HB  Darrou     Griffiths    Wright     

C     Arnot      Webberley    Helbig

HF   O'Hanlon     Elton       Turner

FF   Derickx     McGuane       Maric     

Foll  Graham    White      Verrier                 

Int  Browne     McDonald       Miller      Sub 


The first thing that jumps out at me is the sheer amount of 'talls' we have compared to midfielders. For years supporters have bemoaned the fact that we are a club of minnow light weights. Now, in our attempt to find talls, we appear to have gone the other direction. Our lack of depth is desperate in the midfield and ruck - we just don't have the numbers or talent available whereas we have the number of ruckmen but just not talent at all.

How many of these guys above are worth a game?

[the claw]

Ok. So this 'team' are based on a little bit of speculation on my behalf so you'll have to bear with me somewhat.

Assuming every player on our list is fit and healthy -


Our 2012 'Depth Team' - based on this year selections

FB   Moore      Post       Astbury

HB  Darrou     Griffiths    Wright     

C     Arnot      Webberley    Helbig

HF   O'Hanlon     Elton       Turner

FF   Derickx     McGuane       Maric     

Foll  Graham    White      Verrier                 

Int  Browne     McDonald       Miller      Sub 


The first thing that jumps out at me is the sheer amount of 'talls' we have compared to midfielders. For years supporters have bemoaned the fact that we are a club of minnow light weights. Now, in our attempt to find talls, we appear to have gone the other direction. Our lack of depth is desperate in the midfield and ruck - we just don't have the numbers or talent available whereas we have the number of ruckmen but just not talent at all.

How many of these guys above are worth a game?

stripes just two things.
1/ your talking depth i think it important you grade the players. ie D = Development. C=  good. B = very good. A = elite. BS =  below standard.
2/ we have a total of 16 talls on the list believe it or not it is basically the average and a little on the low side if you are trying to build a core of tall players.

put it this way with rookies and scholarship players etc  you have potentially  46  48 odd players on your list.  just 16 talls leaves potentially 32 places for mids. yeah i know it doesnt quite work that way but it gives an idea.

your right though we dont have enough genuine mids by a good margin but its not because we have too many talls. its purely a list structure thing.

[Judge Roughneck]

Imo

Griffiths
Ohanlon
Elton
Helbig

Are best 22

[Stripes]

Imo

Griffiths
Ohanlon
Elton
Helbig

Are best 22

I made up the 'best' 22 team first and these guys missed my cut. What I did realize though is how few of the players that are not in our best 22 that I am excited about going forward. Helbig shows promise and Ohanlon could be a good mid sized forward but seems to lack an engine at present. Arnot could be good as an inside midfielder but I haven't seen enough of him.

From all of those mentioned though Griffiths is the only player I would and do feel confident that he can step straight into our current side. None of the others are any where near ready which is a real concern. Miller could step straight in and probably should but he is a role player/stop gap at best and has never set the world on fire. Moore is a true depth player imo at the present. I'm uncertain of where Astbury will fit in or whether he will make it at all atm 

Players like McGuane, Gus, Post, Webberley, Browne, McDonald, Maric, Derickx and White will not make it imho. They are average/expendable players not up to it at the moment. Browne, Maric and Post may prove me wrong but on current form this doesn't look likely.

Then there is the true development types in Verrier, Turner, Wright and Darrou. I haven't heard anything to make me feel confident these guys will make it let alone step straight into the team.

So overall, our depth is terrible. There is hope for the future but at present we do not have barely a player who could confidently step straight into the senior side and fill a role successfully.

Imo - these are the only players who could step up successfully atm

Griffiths
White
Miller
Helbig (at a stretch)

That's it. 



I'm excited about Griffiths potential but worried that his shoulders will keep him back. Elton is another who could be a great forward but is years away

[Stripes]

2/ we have a total of 16 talls on the list believe it or not it is basically the average and a little on the low side if you are trying to build a core of tall players.

put it this way with rookies and scholarship players etc  you have potentially  46  48 odd players on your list.  just 16 talls leaves potentially 32 places for mids. yeah i know it doesnt quite work that way but it gives an idea.

your right though we dont have enough genuine mids by a good margin but its not because we have too many talls. its purely a list structure thing.

The midfield problem is the biggest concern for me. We just don't seem to have any depth what so ever which can step straight into the side to cover injuries. We should have players pushing for selection yet besides White (who lacks in many areas) and perhaps Helbig (who is injured and is raw at best) we seem to have no one. Where are the rest?! What happens if another couple go down for the season?

[tony_montana]

2/ we have a total of 16 talls on the list believe it or not it is basically the average and a little on the low side if you are trying to build a core of tall players.

put it this way with rookies and scholarship players etc  you have potentially  46  48 odd players on your list.  just 16 talls leaves potentially 32 places for mids. yeah i know it doesnt quite work that way but it gives an idea.

your right though we dont have enough genuine mids by a good margin but its not because we have too many talls. its purely a list structure thing.

The midfield problem is the biggest concern for me. We just don't seem to have any depth what so ever which can step straight into the side to cover injuries. We should have players pushing for selection yet besides White (who lacks in many areas) and perhaps Helbig (who is injured and is raw at best) we seem to have no one. Where are the rest?! What happens if another couple go down for the season?

I agree, the fact we only have arnott and helbig in reserve as mids/running players shows theres a gap there. We need to replace connors, mcdonald, webberley with 3 running players types to build our depth in that area and hopefully replace players like jackson

[Stripes]

I agree, the fact we only have arnott and helbig in reserve as mids/running players shows theres a gap there. We need to replace connors, mcdonald, webberley with 3 running players types to build our depth in that area and hopefully replace players like jackson

Its going to be a real challenge for the recruiters this year. We need to get the trade and draft balance right. Midfield should be our biggest target for both but we definitely need a backup ruckman. We are now too reliant on Maric - the drop in standard between him and Gus/Browne is astounding  . It does seem though that we are targeting a another key backman at present though which I don't feel is as pronounced a problem as the midfield and ruck areas now.

[tony_montana]

I agree, the fact we only have arnott and helbig in reserve as mids/running players shows theres a gap there. We need to replace connors, mcdonald, webberley with 3 running players types to build our depth in that area and hopefully replace players like jackson

Its going to be a real challenge for the recruiters this year. We need to get the trade and draft balance right. Midfield should be our biggest target for both but we definitely need a backup ruckman. We are now too reliant on Maric - the drop in standard between him and Gus/Browne is astounding  . It does seem though that we are targeting a another key backman at present though which I don't feel is as pronounced a problem as the midfield and ruck areas now.

Vickery is still the ideal ruck/forward to chop out Maric, his form last year was pleasing for a young developing fwd/ruck. Unlike many, I ratre his ruck and clearance work and the fact hes gone in for shoulder surgery tells me this seasons performances werent form based but clearly affected by injury. I think we could do worse than try and find a 3rd mobile ruckman at the expense of one or 2 of Browne/Gus/Derickx but lets not forget that Vickery is a promosing young player and will fill a big list gap imo

[the claw]

this is just my opinion but heres the list of genuine mids we have.with a big emphasis on genuine.
 arnot  -  early development player.
conca - yr 3. still developing.
cotchin - elite player.
deledio - very good player if not elite.
ellis - while not a genuine mid atm will develop into one.
foley - insdie player one of few we have.
griig - outside running wingman  who can mark.
helbig - inside player who has a lot of developing to do.
martin - has lots of things to work on to become elite but should get there in time.
tuck - genuine inside mid who compliments what mids we do have.

to me thats 10 genuine mids  imo we want at least 6 more.

players who we have rotated thru the midfield  with varying degrees of success or non success depending how you look upon them. i look upon these blokes not as mids but specialist role players ie genuine forward or defenders flankers and pocket players.
connors - well hes gone.
edwards - imo has failed as a mid and now has his niche as a forward. he can at least rotate thru the midfield without us losing too much.needs to find consistency personally would be looking to trade.
houli - just my opinion but he leaves a lot to be desired as a mid must improve enormously in this area. made his mark as a sml rebounding defender. depth player only with lots to work on still.
jackson - imo has failed abysmally as a mid his whole career. is on his last chance as a forward. would trade/delist.
king - see jackson.
nahas - very limited player doesnt have the skills or size to play as a permanent mid.like king and edwards has to make the forward ine home to make it would trade or delist if in charge.
white - just not up to the standard. is the proverbil glass half full.

others who may in time be able to go thru the midfield but atm play as flankers or specialist roles.

bathelor - defender.
dea - defender .
macdonald - gonski.
morris - defender could make a great running tagger in the midfield.
newman - is one who should be already in the midfield imo.
ohanlon - forward.
webberley - defender who is likely gone.

how do we improve midfield depth quickly.

pick 10 josh caddy will be in his third  yr and ready to make a reasonable  impact. use our   2nd rnd pick and our compensation pick on mids.  straight away we have three young genuine mids who are likely to contribute games if not immediately, then quickly.
target a player like maloney in the psd effectively using pick 100 odd to get him. yes hes short term but dirt cheap is there a reason why we cant take a short term fix as long as we do due diligence and tke our share of kids with our early picks.

with late nd  and rookie picks target a state league player or two.

GENUINE mid field stocks would then look something like this.

Arnot
Caddy
Conca
Cotchin
Deledio
Ellis
Foley
Grigg
Helbig
Martin
Moloney
Tuck.
2nd rnd pick around 30/35
compensation pick around 30/35.
one state league player as a rookie. tom sundberg type.

theres 15 genuine mids more like the number we need and its a good mix of older and younger players. it still leaves a little bit of room to address some other needs as well.
to achieve this we need to cut

connors - already gone and a flanker.  makes room for  caddy.
macdonald - already gone and a flanker. makes room for moloney
webberley - as good as gone and a flanker. makes room for 2nd rnd pick
graham - excess ruckman. still leaves 3 plus vickery. makes room for compensation pick.
white - below standard flanker.hopefully would make room for someone like troy chaplin in free agency.
jackson - below standard flanker.makes room for pick 50ish.
heslin -  rookie pick already gone.  makes room for a mature state league player mid on the rookie list.
miller - rookie pick makes room for a tall kid like tom lee on the rookie list.

it aint hard to do.

[Stripes]

claw - I agree with pretty much everything you have said. The only exceptions are that I don't think we should give up our first round pick for Caddy (besides I feel that deal has already been done elsewhere) and I wouldn't Jackson or Miller until we have the genuine depth to replace them. I'm not talking about young developing players but rather players who are pushing for selection. We have none at present and draftees don't fit the bill.

Good post though claw 

[the claw]

claw - I agree with pretty much everything you have said. The only exceptions are that I don't think we should give up our first round pick for Caddy (besides I feel that deal has already been done elsewhere) and I wouldn't Jackson or Miller until we have the genuine depth to replace them. I'm not talking about young developing players but rather players who are pushing for selection. We have none at present and draftees don't fit the bill.

Good post though claw 

yep well we disagree on on those three. caddy would virtually be like taking  a 18 yo   nd recruit.  at 20yo very much a long term selection  whos done 2 yrs of his apprenticeship.  he would no doubt be a top 10 pick in this coming draft. big bodied kid  who can not only play as a mid but play forward as well. imo at pick 10 he would be the best available  if in the draft.

miller offers us not a thing would gladly cut him to give an athletic  skilled kid like tom lee a go. he would do no worse. he has all the right attributes to play afl and is doing real well in the wafl he has to be worth a rookie pick at least, would not be surprised to see him taken in the nd.

jackson well thats just my personal preference hes contracted so its irrelevant. unlike me they wont cut contracted players.so swap him for any number of players that need to go.

make no mistake though if we got moloney caddy and a good state league player like sundberg and actually got games into our 2nd rounder and compensation pick  there would be no spot in the team for jackson. certainly not in the midfield anyway.

hes not a midfielders arshole  and im damn sure we could do better for forwards than him. caddy ohanlon rookie a kid from e/freo called max duffy throw martin forward like we do and there is no place for whaccko jacko. as king and edwards would have to be in front of him as forwards.

i divert from the main point though.  and that is we can improve our midfield depth quite quickly just by taking caddy moloney sundberg and two good nd picks. add the fact arnot and helbig will be injury free and fit with another preseason behind them  there wont be as big a need to play your jacksons nahas whites kings edwards thru there. all up thats basically 7 genuine mids we havent had this yr.
also  it doesnt necesarily have to be these players caddy maloney etc  we just need to go thru a similar process.

my own personal preference is we cut 7 from the list proper and put newman on the vets list. that means 8 new faces to the list proper and we use pick 68 ish as well as the ones ive mentioned.it also means one more has to be cut. take your pick theres still plenty who need to go.  we cant do what needs doing in one draft bet we sure need to make a sizable dent in it.

[rfctigers05]

You guys have too much time on your side
Picking Coburg teams

[tdy]

king - see jackson.
nahas - very limited player doesnt have the skills or size to play as a permanent mid.like king and edwards has to make the forward ine home to make it would trade or delist if in charge.

I really do have to disagree with youhere on these two.  I see them as genuine AFL standard small forwards both off them.  There are better small forwards in the league but there are worse.
Nahas is younger and as such has a bigger future but I would keep them both until their age due by date.

We have bigger holes to fill in our list than the small forward brigade.

[tdy]

Ok. So this 'team' are based on a little bit of speculation on my behalf so you'll have to bear with me somewhat.

Assuming every player on our list is fit and healthy -


Our 2012 'Depth Team' - based on this year selections

FB   Moore      Post       Astbury

HB  Darrou     Griffiths    Wright     

C     Arnot      Webberley    Helbig

HF   O'Hanlon     Elton       Turner

FF   Derickx     McGuane       Maric     

Foll  Graham    White      Verrier                 

Int  Browne     McDonald       Miller      Sub 


The first thing that jumps out at me is the sheer amount of 'talls' we have compared to midfielders. For years supporters have bemoaned the fact that we are a club of minnow light weights. Now, in our attempt to find talls, we appear to have gone the other direction. Our lack of depth is desperate in the midfield and ruck - we just don't have the numbers or talent available whereas we have the number of ruckmen but just not talent at all.

How many of these guys above are worth a game?

I think as others have said the notable thing of our depth list is its lack of depth.  Some of it is quite old and I see us clearing out a fair bit of the older depth players this year.  I really do hope we see some of the younger depth players coming through next year or it would really say something about our development coaching.

[Judge Roughneck]

You guys have too much time on your side
Picking Coburg teams

Yeah.

Its not related to richmond at all