Author Topic: How we use our ruckmen?  (Read 2005 times)

Offline Penelope

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How we use our ruckmen?
« on: July 18, 2012, 08:58:53 AM »
Is it time to rethink our strategy on how we use our rucks?

AS feared, it appears Ivan has been run into the ground. When he gets a "rest" more often than not it is on the forweard line and with the expectations of forward pressure and the way all the forwards move up the ground and are then expected to run back into the forward 50 to provide an option if there is a turnover, it's hardly a rest.

Perhaps we need to look at playing two pure ruckmen, changing off the bench. Not only would this share the workload around, but it would make it easier to recruit another ruckman. As it is now, we cannot offer a ruckman from another club starved of game time, more opportunities unless he is capable of playing predominately as a forward.

It would also mean going back to the traditional 2 talls in the forward line, which seems to have worked best for us this year anyway.
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Offline Stripes

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 09:58:11 AM »
What that would mean though al is that we would be down a midfielder and therefore considerable rotation options. We have been playing a midfielder out of the forward line to increase our forward pressure, create a mismatch for the opposition once the ball hits the ground and to enable us to have an additional midfielder we can rotate through the middle. With Foley going down this option has diminished somewhat but the ideal players for this position is of course Dusty followed by Cotch and Lids.

Bringing in a second ruckman makes us less flexible unless the second ruckman is flexible. If they are like Vickery who can play the genuine forward/2nd ruck position then this is an asset to the side rather than hindrance. If we were to play another pure ruckman then he can only rotate with the other ruckman depriving us of interchange options and meaning we will struggle to compete in fitness levels as the game progresses.

I do like the idea of attracting another capable ruckman but unless they can play as a tall forward or extra man in defense then it would hurt us to have two specialist ruckman playing in the same team.

Offline Eat_em_Alive

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 10:06:55 AM »
Not sure where I sit on this matter, but if we were looking for a 2nd pure ruckman- robbie warnock
I think we should persist with what we have- Tyrone vickery. I don't buy into this form slump. He was injured in the preaseason and most likely forced to play half the season for structure purposes. I think he will burst out of the gates injury free next year.

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Offline Penelope

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2012, 10:48:30 AM »
What that would mean though al is that we would be down a midfielder and therefore considerable rotation options. We have been playing a midfielder out of the forward line to increase our forward pressure, create a mismatch for the opposition once the ball hits the ground and to enable us to have an additional midfielder we can rotate through the middle. With Foley going down this option has diminished somewhat but the ideal players for this position is of course Dusty followed by Cotch and Lids.

Bringing in a second ruckman makes us less flexible unless the second ruckman is flexible. If they are like Vickery who can play the genuine forward/2nd ruck position then this is an asset to the side rather than hindrance. If we were to play another pure ruckman then he can only rotate with the other ruckman depriving us of interchange options and meaning we will struggle to compete in fitness levels as the game progresses.

I do like the idea of attracting another capable ruckman but unless they can play as a tall forward or extra man in defense then it would hurt us to have two specialist ruckman playing in the same team.
yeah, it would be a little of robbing peter to pay paul.
i dont think it would so much mean a midfielder down if we went to a smaller forward line, but it would affect the rotations as more would have to be done midfield to forward line rather than midfiled to bench.

to me the extra workload would be shared amongst a number of players, while vastly reducing the workload on one single player, which i see as a valuable trade off.
that one single player is also a very important player, because we ( and many other teams) don't really have a replacement for our number one ruckman. it also means it's impossible to recruit another ready to go pure ruckman, which reduces your options.

The only way to have a back up is to recruit and develop your own youngsters, which takes time, and if you get to a point where they are performing well in the VFL, but cant get a game, they will be offered more opportunity somewhere else. Unless of course you only recruit blokes that can hold their own as a forward as well, but as i said this vastly reduces options, and therefore chances of actually getting someone who is good enough.

if you went back a two talls in the forward line setup, it wouldn't really affect flexability, as we would have a similar mix to what we have now with a three pronged forward setup, just shuffling the deck a bit.

the key would be having more blokes play on the flanks and pockets that can rotate through the middle, something we should be aiming for anyway.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

tony_montana

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2012, 10:48:53 AM »
Problem is, it really hamstrings you being a midfield rotation down like stripes mentioned. Ideally you need a Leigh Brown type utility who can spend 5-10mins a qtr on the ball to give both Ivan and Vickery some rest time. Of everyone we have on our list, Post suits this role, but is he good enough to stay on the list?

Offline Penelope

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2012, 10:59:14 AM »
probably not, sadly.

to me the question is, is the extra workload put onto the mids, which is shared amongst a number of blokes, worth the workload it takes off one, very hard to replace bloke?
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2012, 11:17:57 AM »
I reckon part of the problem was created by Vickery's very poor form this season

Last year we rarely played 2 ruckman either but we had Vickery available to pinch hit for longer than 3-5 minutes a qtr. He could be slotted in there for 10 sometimes 15 minutes a time and it made a massive difference

This season we haven't had that; sadly

Agree with tony_m about post but it is pretty clear he isn't going to be the answer short term let alone long term

I'd be loathed to bring a 2nd ruckman who cannot give us anything as a forward option. The way the game is today I just don't think you can have a 2nd ruckman sitting on the bench to pinch hit as it bascially leaves you with only 2 on the bench + the sub

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Ox

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2012, 02:09:59 PM »
Thread title correction

"How We Use Our RuckmAn"

Answer is - like a black dog.

Offline 1965

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2012, 02:50:38 PM »
Thread title correction

"How We Use Our RuckmAn"

Answer is - like a black dog.

Reminds me of Michael Green.
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Ox

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2012, 03:56:37 PM »
First thing - we need 2 guys that want to compete hard for ruck one and 2 positions.
What we have is 1..... and two coordinately challenged pickles

Offline unplugged

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2012, 04:28:53 PM »
Given that Vickery is injured.  Wouldn't the role of giving the main ruck a spell go to Dericx.  We put Mcguane in there around about the time we were 16 points up and rested Angus forward conceding both the ruck and the forward line.  Was as unbelievable as putting Miller in there earlier in the season.

Offline Eat_em_Alive

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2012, 04:44:00 PM »
Given that Vickery is injured.  Wouldn't the role of giving the main ruck a spell go to Dericx.  We put Mcguane in there around about the time we were 16 points up and rested Angus forward conceding both the ruck and the forward line.  Was as unbelievable as putting Miller in there earlier in the season.

Good point, I wasnt aware of that as I didnt see game
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Offline 1965

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2012, 09:37:08 PM »
Copied from another thread...

Andrew Browne
Playing the lone ruck role due to Angus Graham’s promotion to the Richmond side, Andrew excelled.  His work rate was terrific and his ruck work allowed the midfielders to get first hands on the ball.  Great chases and strong tackles complimented Andrew’s strong all-round game.

Jayden Post
A solid game from Jayden.  He looked like our most dangerous forward, though he always seemed to be jumping against a pack as we struggled to get him one-out. He helped Andrew Browne in the ruck and did very well, picking up 18 hitouts.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/141836/default.aspx

Still think we should give him another go before we stamp his papers.

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Offline Penelope

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2012, 05:05:06 PM »
Given that Vickery is injured.  Wouldn't the role of giving the main ruck a spell go to Dericx.  We put Mcguane in there around about the time we were 16 points up and rested Angus forward conceding both the ruck and the forward line.  Was as unbelievable as putting Miller in there earlier in the season.
which is why i believe we need another mature competitive ruckman, and by changing our structure it increases our chance of achieving this.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline mightytiges

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Re: How we use our ruckmen?
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2012, 07:21:19 PM »
I agree al we need to find another decent mature ready-made ruckman but the difficulty for us in finding one will be that they will know if they come to Richmond they'll be 2nd banana to big Ivan and most likely spending next year playing for Coburg until Ivan needs a rest.
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