Mediocrity still reigns

[Dubstep Dookie]

this thread is so so funny.

Why? bc you were the only one that saw and expected this? lmao

Cue the next full page explanation of dribble

[Smokey]

Now that the immediate emotional disappointment of last night has abated slightly, what is of some (significant I think) interest is how we are all calling for the heads of players, coaches and administration now that our season is officially over.  Like everyone, I am bitterly disappointed that we have failed to make the finals again and there is no doubt that our list still needs a serious cull another 1 or 2 times before it will look like a serious contender's list but I think a look in restrospect is needed to put all this in perspective.

Notwithstanding the hundreds of moments in any game of football where things can go one way or another, here we are bemoaning our lack of ability, culture, incompetence, luck etc etc but for the smallest change in circumstances we would be sitting in the 8.  On another given day, Hunt misses his set shot at goal, Grigg's shot bounces through not away, McLean's shot is touched and we are sitting 8th on 40 points.  3 single moments in the final seconds of a game that could just as easily gone the other way and we would all be saying how great it is that we are finals bound, and that this list is showing potential and ability that we haven't shown for years.  I'm not saying we are unlucky or that we deserve to be in the 8, I believe quite the opposite actually but I do think it needs consideration when discussing the state of our list and our club - but for a frozen second in game time we are patting ourselves on the back and lauding our heroes.

I honestly think that this outcome would have been the far worse of the 2 because it would have opened ourselves up to the potential of repeating past mistakes by papering over the cracks (1 good small forward away from a flag still sticks in my craw) but conversely, it does bear remembering how well we have done this season, especially earlier on when we had closer to our full list available and we were competitive against or beating the top sides with a very good brand of skillful attacking football.  We must accept that these bumps and blimps were inevitable given our lack of depth and maturity, and we have no option other than to suck it up and learn from them if we truly believe and want to become serious contenders.  The distraught look on the faces of the players last night said a lot about the hurt they were feeling, the true test of how much that means and how much they learned will only become obvious in 2013.

I think back in March this year that most reasonable and realistic thinking supporters predicted we would have the very type of year we have had but now that we are emotionally connected to that reality it has become all to easy to search for blame and scapegoats when the best thing we can do for ourselves and the team is to take a step back, breathe and reflect on the lessons learned and the task ahead.  Our next flag is in the future, not the past, and the only way to get that flag is to look and move forward with honest, reasonable, strong and committed action from all involved in putting this team onto the field. Oh for a fully functioning crystal ball.

 

[tony_montana]

Now that the immediate emotional disappointment of last night has abated slightly, what is of some (significant I think) interest is how we are all calling for the heads of players, coaches and administration now that our season is officially over.  Like everyone, I am bitterly disappointed that we have failed to make the finals again and there is no doubt that our list still needs a serious cull another 1 or 2 times before it will look like a serious contender's list but I think a look in restrospect is needed to put all this in perspective.

Notwithstanding the hundreds of moments in any game of football where things can go one way or another, here we are bemoaning our lack of ability, culture, incompetence, luck etc etc but for the smallest change in circumstances we would be sitting in the 8.  On another given day, Hunt misses his set shot at goal, Grigg's shot bounces through not away, McLean's shot is touched and we are sitting 8th on 40 points.  3 single moments in the final seconds of a game that could just as easily gone the other way and we would all be saying how great it is that we are finals bound, and that this list is showing potential and ability that we haven't shown for years.  I'm not saying we are unlucky or that we deserve to be in the 8, I believe quite the opposite actually but I do think it needs consideration when discussing the state of our list and our club - but for a frozen second in game time we are patting ourselves on the back and lauding our heroes.

I honestly think that this outcome would have been the far worse of the 2 because it would have opened ourselves up to the potential of repeating past mistakes by papering over the cracks (1 good small forward away from a flag still sticks in my craw) but conversely, it does bear remembering how well we have done this season, especially earlier on when we had closer to our full list available and we were competitive against or beating the top sides with a very good brand of skillful attacking football.  We must accept that these bumps and blimps were inevitable given our lack of depth and maturity, and we have no option other than to suck it up and learn from them if we truly believe and want to become serious contenders.  The distraught look on the faces of the players last night said a lot about the hurt they were feeling, the true test of how much that means and how much they learned will only become obvious in 2013.

I think back in March this year that most reasonable and realistic thinking supporters predicted we would have the very type of year we have had but now that we are emotionally connected to that reality it has become all to easy to search for blame and scapegoats when the best thing we can do for ourselves and the team is to take a step back, breathe and reflect on the lessons learned and the task ahead.  Our next flag is in the future, not the past, and the only way to get that flag is to look and move forward with honest, reasonable, strong and committed action from all involved in putting this team onto the field. Oh for a fully functioning crystal ball.

 

thats a great post smokey, put it far more eloquently than I could. Yesterday I mentioned that as hard as it is to swallow, the way this season has panned out with the heartbreaking close losses, its been ideal in identifying glaring weaknesses, weaknesses that could quite easily be swept under the carpet in the euphoria of being finals bound. This is a dissapointing season and what could have been, but its a reality check that is more than likely a blessing long term. Well said

[the claw]

this thread is so so funny.

Why post in it then??
Go back to your we have no depth mantra

That's it no depth for the last 30 yrs

So every group of players we have recruited in 30 yrs have only been good to make 2 finals in 30 yrs

Got nothing at all to do with development??

Glad we never recruited Buddy, Pav or Rough cause they would've been average at Punt Rd

Spineless bunch at Punt Rd. Everyone's mate needs to look players in the eye or tell them to stuff off like he preached he would

You demand skata you get skata

IMO we need a hard leader of men who demands excellence

Jack x 2 in the leadership group. Hahaha

lol

[the claw]

If their is any consolation in this loss it is the fact that Carlton will get smashed in the finals - and we have prolonged the careers of Ratten, McLean, & Gibbs.

It is a fact that most Carlton Supporters want those people amongst other gone!

like us  they wont make finals their depth is almost as bad as ours.
 did you not watch the game good sides are never so error riddled injuries or not.
make no mistake our hacks were bad but carltons were just as bad. only one who can rock the boat now is freo.

[the claw]

this thread is so so funny.

Why? bc you were the only one that saw and expected this? lmao

Cue the next full page explanation of dribble

hhhaaarrrggghhh hhhhhaaaaarrrrggggghhhhh  hhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhh. nothing changes with some adding absolutely nothing but whining to the debate.
continue on sonny.

[Tigeritis™©®]

I'm not sure why people can't see the obvious.

Culture is the greatest and absolutely the one issue here.

If you don't believe it just look at collingwood as a prime example. In 1999 they were an absolute rabble. Eddie identified the need to bring in quality people to the club and demand a successful culture. His first job was to get a no nonsense coach.
Malthouse, with his standards didn't put up with any sort of mediocrity and both on and off the field they became a powerhouse again.
By 2002 were playing in a grand final and backed it up with another shot in 2003.
Now why is it that even with the playing list they had they were able to be competative enough to play in the GF two years in a row?
The hawks were a rabble also. In 2005 Clarkson took over and by 2007 were playing finals and stole a premiership every man and his dog didn't think they were ready to win in 2008.
Now tell me a coach doesn't make a difference in modern footy!

With our history of mediocrity over so many years it's more important than anything else to change the culture that is imbedded in it's DNA.
It's the most important thing to clean out whatever evidence or what's infected it over the years. The only way this can be done is to demand a high standard of achievement. Not to be happy with any mistakes or half hearted efforts of any sort.
We saw Clarkson smash a wall just before half time against the pies. They were playing good footy at that stage from what we could see and were in front. But it's obvious this bloke demands excellence and by the end of the 3rd and 8 goals they had the game won.

Don't get me wrong I actually like Hardwick. I truly hoped he was true to his word as he's always said the things we like to here, "if you can't win your own ball you won't be playing" and "you won't be wearing the jumper if you aren't prepared to play for the jumper" etc etc.
These things all sound great to us because that's what we expect because of our love for the club.
But it's so glaringly obvious that the whole playing group don't believe this or aren't on board or aren't convinced.

I want to see the standard raised. In some respects it looks as though it has as in Conners case but I still wonder why it took so many chances for the same result or why he didn't turn it around for himself as so was the case with Steve Johnson at Geelong.

And these are the questions that need an answer...
Why is it are we still in the bottom 8?
Why do we continue to lose unlosable games?
Why do we still make basic, junior footy mistakes?
Why are we mentally weak?
Why are our fringe players useless and never make it at another team when delisted?
Why do so many good young prospective recruits fail when recruited by us?
Why are finals always only a dream?
Why do we rebuild every 3-5 years?

My answer is CULTURE.
Fix this and things will be so much easier at punt rd.

[Chuck17]

is that the same winning culture as rolling in the tank

[Tigeritis™©®]

is that the same winning culture as rolling in the tank

you change culture first then identify the needs of the playing group.
Some players will never win you a premiership ie. Jason Cloke (coll) / Richard Vandenburg (haw)  but some can ie. Leigh Brown (coll) / Stewie Dew ( Hawks ) but who would of thought?

Once you fix culture you aren't down the bottom eight too long. And you find that you are playing finals more times than not then you can tweek the list to suit your needs to get the club into a GF and ultimately a premiership win. 

[WilliamPowell]

Now that the immediate emotional disappointment of last night has abated slightly, what is of some (significant I think) interest is how we are all calling for the heads of players, coaches and administration now that our season is officially over.  Like everyone, I am bitterly disappointed that we have failed to make the finals again and there is no doubt that our list still needs a serious cull another 1 or 2 times before it will look like a serious contender's list but I think a look in restrospect is needed to put all this in perspective.

Notwithstanding the hundreds of moments in any game of football where things can go one way or another, here we are bemoaning our lack of ability, culture, incompetence, luck etc etc but for the smallest change in circumstances we would be sitting in the 8.  On another given day, Hunt misses his set shot at goal, Grigg's shot bounces through not away, McLean's shot is touched and we are sitting 8th on 40 points.  3 single moments in the final seconds of a game that could just as easily gone the other way and we would all be saying how great it is that we are finals bound, and that this list is showing potential and ability that we haven't shown for years.  I'm not saying we are unlucky or that we deserve to be in the 8, I believe quite the opposite actually but I do think it needs consideration when discussing the state of our list and our club - but for a frozen second in game time we are patting ourselves on the back and lauding our heroes.

I honestly think that this outcome would have been the far worse of the 2 because it would have opened ourselves up to the potential of repeating past mistakes by papering over the cracks (1 good small forward away from a flag still sticks in my craw) but conversely, it does bear remembering how well we have done this season, especially earlier on when we had closer to our full list available and we were competitive against or beating the top sides with a very good brand of skillful attacking football.  We must accept that these bumps and blimps were inevitable given our lack of depth and maturity, and we have no option other than to suck it up and learn from them if we truly believe and want to become serious contenders.  The distraught look on the faces of the players last night said a lot about the hurt they were feeling, the true test of how much that means and how much they learned will only become obvious in 2013.

I think back in March this year that most reasonable and realistic thinking supporters predicted we would have the very type of year we have had but now that we are emotionally connected to that reality it has become all to easy to search for blame and scapegoats when the best thing we can do for ourselves and the team is to take a step back, breathe and reflect on the lessons learned and the task ahead.  Our next flag is in the future, not the past, and the only way to get that flag is to look and move forward with honest, reasonable, strong and committed action from all involved in putting this team onto the field. Oh for a fully functioning crystal ball.

 

Great post smokey

[smasha]

RICHMOND TILL I DIE!!!

This time next year we will be celebrating.

Cya in Brisy lads.
Get a win and restore some pride.

[Penelope]

notice that mr tiagra has stopped talking up essendons culture .
why is that?

[Ox]

Get a win and restore some pride.

you're kidding,right ?

[Tigeritis™©®]

Now that the immediate emotional disappointment of last night has abated slightly, what is of some (significant I think) interest is how we are all calling for the heads of players, coaches and administration now that our season is officially over.  Like everyone, I am bitterly disappointed that we have failed to make the finals again and there is no doubt that our list still needs a serious cull another 1 or 2 times before it will look like a serious contender's list but I think a look in restrospect is needed to put all this in perspective.

Notwithstanding the hundreds of moments in any game of football where things can go one way or another, here we are bemoaning our lack of ability, culture, incompetence, luck etc etc but for the smallest change in circumstances we would be sitting in the 8.  On another given day, Hunt misses his set shot at goal, Grigg's shot bounces through not away, McLean's shot is touched and we are sitting 8th on 40 points.  3 single moments in the final seconds of a game that could just as easily gone the other way and we would all be saying how great it is that we are finals bound, and that this list is showing potential and ability that we haven't shown for years.  I'm not saying we are unlucky or that we deserve to be in the 8, I believe quite the opposite actually but I do think it needs consideration when discussing the state of our list and our club - but for a frozen second in game time we are patting ourselves on the back and lauding our heroes.

I honestly think that this outcome would have been the far worse of the 2 because it would have opened ourselves up to the potential of repeating past mistakes by papering over the cracks (1 good small forward away from a flag still sticks in my craw) but conversely, it does bear remembering how well we have done this season, especially earlier on when we had closer to our full list available and we were competitive against or beating the top sides with a very good brand of skillful attacking football.  We must accept that these bumps and blimps were inevitable given our lack of depth and maturity, and we have no option other than to suck it up and learn from them if we truly believe and want to become serious contenders.  The distraught look on the faces of the players last night said a lot about the hurt they were feeling, the true test of how much that means and how much they learned will only become obvious in 2013.

I think back in March this year that most reasonable and realistic thinking supporters predicted we would have the very type of year we have had but now that we are emotionally connected to that reality it has become all to easy to search for blame and scapegoats when the best thing we can do for ourselves and the team is to take a step back, breathe and reflect on the lessons learned and the task ahead.  Our next flag is in the future, not the past, and the only way to get that flag is to look and move forward with honest, reasonable, strong and committed action from all involved in putting this team onto the field. Oh for a fully functioning crystal ball.

 

and what if it all happens again next year smokey?
Or what if it looks great 2013 & all falls to poo in 2014 as was the case in 2002? 
My point is basic and from what I've seen this year Hardwick has failed to address the mistakes of past coaches. He's too lenient, not angry enough, accepts close losses, accepts mediocre players, hasn't demanded excellence.
Look I really like the bloke but I don't want him to make the same mistakes. Not only that but he has finally got more resources than any Richmond coach in history.
He still says the right things but we go to the game and see the complete opposite to what he is saying.
Is he too close to the players? Is he too lenient? The results this year say yes in my opinion.
But can he change this? I think he can but he needs to be ruthless in every area of the footy department in my opinion and not accept anything less than success and winning and perfection.
He needs to raise the standard higher than it is now.   
 

[Penelope]

why do you think hardwick is too lenient?
because he doesnt give it to the players in public?

just midless blood lust