Are we overachieving?

[JohnF]

Haven't had a chance to see today's game yet, will probably have a look at it tonight if I get time, but just wondering if anyone thinks we are going too well at the moment.

I know it seems a funny thing to say, winning is great, BUT

I think it will be tragic in the long term if we end up 8-to-10th and continue the cycle of mediocrity we established in the mid to late 90's.

As good as we are travelling we are really no where near as good as the best sides and we'll need a few more quality picks in the draft if we are to get anywhere substantial.

I think we've overachieving at the moment and if we continue to do it we will be in a bad place to get to where we need to be in a few year's time.

[the_boy_jake]

Look no further than the North Melbourne Football Club to see the possible danger. A great fighting, winning culture, but ultimately they are lacking the depth of class (they have some matchwinners but not enough) to take a flag anytime soon. The saints have shown that the best way to do it is to gradually replace a gutless or overrated core with quality kids, in terms of both hunger and talent. Hawthorn are doing the same. The thing is, I don't think in either case this is intentional - Clarkson is as Thomas was 5 years ago - learning the ropes. Wallace is too good a coach and too much of a winner to let this happen.

It is the system that is wrong.

[mightytiges]

There are very few top quality sides in the comp - Eagles, Saints and possibly the Cats. Port and Brisbane have come back to the field through age, injuries and departures over the summer. Everyone else can beat each other on the day. We are still in the mediocre group.

I wouldn't say we are overachieving as we haven't achieved anything yet. With the inclusions of Hyde, Tuck and Cogs in the midfield, Gas back to his old self and a decent ruck division we've improved under Wallace from a complete uncompetitive rabble under Spud to a team with spirit and a decent gameplan when we stick to both (i.e. not the first quarter  ) that can compete with  most sides at this mediocre level. It's not hard for any AFL side to make the jump into the top 8 because most sides are ordinary so the gap to bridge isn't that great. The test is competing with the top sides under September pressure. We've failed in that department badly in both instances this year as our skills and decision making still aren't good enough to cope with immense pressure from these top sides.

[letsgetiton!]

we are not over achieving but actually underachieving!

look at our team, a team with all the talls we have , players such as brown, cogs etc, we should be in the 8

with gas and kell back to their best there are no excuses, as long as we have a dip we will win more than we lose, all we need is 22 contributers and goers each week, look what happened today when we just started manning up, tackling and putting pressure on!

we have matchwinners like no other team, we should be up there

[Bulluss]

I would also say no to this John.

While many of us would like to be comptetive and finish close to the bottom to get the draft picks, we will still more than likely have a top 10 pick.

We also have people like Greg Miller who can find decent players at higher picks, like your Hartigans and Jacksons.

The off field guys know what we need to get where Wallace and Co want to go, and i have confidence that they can do it.

The current team has been given back its self belief but the new coaching staff. Adding in some new talent and they are starting to believe in the themselves again.

Totally different to under Frawley where all the players knew he was talking poo.

[mightytiges]

Mike Sheahan still doesn't rate us despite the compliments  . Still no criticism of the Pies even though they are bottom  .

Richo inspired Richmond, and the Tigers just ran and ran.

They sit 4-2. They have as many wins this year in six weeks as they registered for the entire season last year. Terry Wallace has revitalised the place. The players are hungry and they know they must obey the team rules.

Wallace had Richo roaming the forward half of the ground on his way to 20 possessions, 17 marks and three goals; with Nathan Brown and Kayne Pettifer mopping up in the best traditions of small forwards.

Brown and Pettifer shared 10 goals, Brown booting 6.2 in a performance in keeping with his talent.

Even Andrew Kellaway kicked a goal. Pity a few of the Port players didn't play their footy as honestly as Kellaway does.

I still believe Richmond will struggle to make the final eight, but, fact is, it is only seven or eight wins away with 16 rounds to play.

Richmond's improvement is undeniable. Not only has it beaten Port for the first time since 1998, yesterday's 56-point win represents a 20-goal turnaround inside 12 months.

Port ruined Richmond's 2004 season, smashing the Tigers by 78 points at AAMI Stadium in Round 9. Richmond may well have ruined Port's 2005 season yesterday.

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,%255E20123,00.html

[2JD]

If we use positions 8 to 10 as a stepping stone on our way up, i dont mind at all. If we hang out in those positions for a few years then its a problem.

[om21]

HAHHAHAAH I had a sneaking suspicion JohnF would start something like this.....and like the others I am going to say NO we are not over-acheiving. Why?

We still got belted by two Top 4 teams by 60-70 points. We have beaten two interstate sides in Melbourne......and we beat two bottom 4 teams. Only a naive man would think otherwise. The fact remains that we are still in a MASS group of teams who can beat each other. Now we have Carlton this week, who are also in this category. We can win this match BUT we can also lose this match.

We dont need to finish Bottom 4 to continue re-building. We just need to be competitive and so far we have done that as much as our capabilities allow us to.

[Cain]

om21 - ditto.
played great footy for the last 6 mins of 2nd qtr, and most of the 3rd.
Bout spot on i reakon

[Ox]

Haven't had a chance to see today's game yet, will probably have a look at it tonight if I get time, but just wondering if anyone thinks we are going too well at the moment.

I know it seems a funny thing to say, winning is great, BUT

I think it will be tragic in the long term if we end up 8-to-10th and continue the cycle of mediocrity we established in the mid to late 90's.

As good as we are travelling we are really no where near as good as the best sides and we'll need a few more quality picks in the draft if we are to get anywhere substantial.

I think we've overachieving at the moment and if we continue to do it we will be in a bad place to get to where we need to be in a few year's time.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO U Big Jew.

[Tiger Spirit]

I don’t think we’re over achieving.  All that’s happening is that TW is instilling traits that any half decent team possesses.  In seasons gone by, with the start we had yesterday, the game would’ve been over at quarter time.  Maybe we are becoming a lot more competitive, and confident, because the resistance offered by Port after half time got the treatment it deserved.

If the opposition is having an “off day” then you should be able to do that to them.  A better team would’ve finished them off properly, or at least won by the 66 points I predicted    .  Any other half motivated and committed team, in the same situation, would’ve done the same thing.  Which is something we haven’t been able to do in the past.  Instead, the game would’ve yawned along to it’s inevitable conclusion.

The result doesn’t mean we’re a top four side or anything, or that we’re over achieving.  Just means we’re getting back to being something like a team and playing the way any team should be able to.  The circumstances provided yesterday simply show that we’re on the right track.

It might look to some as though we’re over achieving because of the results so far, but if you consider the opposition and the resistance provided on the occasions we’ve won then the results are as they should be.

When we can start winning under pressure then I’ll think that’s really something.

In the meantime, I’m just happy to see the gradual improvement from week to week. 

[JohnF]

lmfaoo, nothing like a good win to get everyone's spirits up.

I hope you are all right. It's just that I've seen this happen to us too often not to feel some trepidation.

Get a new Coach, get a new lease on life, start playing good spirited footy with an average team, win more games that we really should, end up in a mediocre position rather than bottoming out and then continuing a period of mediocrity before  descending into the abyss.

[JohnF]

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO U Big Jew.

lmfaooo@me winning the lottery and having a nervous breakdown over who could have seen me with the winning ticket and would want to kill me.

[mightytiges]

lmfaoo, nothing like a good win to get everyone's spirits up.

I hope you are all right. It's just that I've seen this happen to us too often not to feel some trepidation.

Get a new Coach, get a new lease on life, start playing good spirited footy with an average team, win more games that we really should, end up in a mediocre position rather than bottoming out and then continuing a period of mediocrity before a dissent into the abyss.

Yeah we did start well under Geischen in late 97/early98 and Spud in 2000 (although not by playing modern footy and our midfield at the time was crap). The main problem with both apart from having no gameplan lol was their recruiting was pathetic and they relied on the same old senior players to deliver success even when it was obvious they couldn't. In Spud's case as we all know after making a PF we topped up with old forward pocket duds instead of continuing to improve our list and we died into the abyss for the next 3 years  .

We still will need to be smart with our recruiting under Wallace and Miller to go anywhere from here.

[JohnF]

That's true MT. Our recruiting will be critical.

I'm sort of assuming that the higher picks you get the better players you get but that's not always the case. Smart recruiting and a bit of luck always helps. let's hope we have it!