Author Topic: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry  (Read 3645 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« on: May 04, 2005, 04:19:09 AM »
Tigers set for 1970s Blue
By Dan Oakes
The Age
May 4, 2005

Tiger coach Terry Wallace wants his club's fans to revive the great rivalry between Richmond and Carlton sides of the 1970s.

Wallace's side meets Denis Pagan's Blues on Saturday at the MCG - the site of three epic grand finals between the clubs in the late 1960s and early '70s, and another in 1982. Richmond won in 1969 and 1973, while Carlton triumphed in 1972 and 1982.

The 1973 grand final was notorious for Richmond's Neil Balme belting Carlton's Geoff Southby and a cracking shirtfront delivered by Tiger defender Laurie Fowler on Blues legend John Nicholls.

In the 16 years between 1967 and 1982, Carlton and Richmond met an astonishing 11 times in finals. But since then times have been tough, with only one finals meeting between the clubs - the 2001 semi-final, which was also the last time Richmond beat the old enemy.

Wallace said that for the first time in years, both clubs were simultaneously on the up and surrounded by a feeling of optimism. He said that the '70s flavour to the clash extended to the clubs' reserve teams playing at Punt Road before the main game.

"I think for the Richmond footy club, the rivalry between Richmond and Carlton is as big a rivalry as what the Richmond Football Club has . . . the build-up of all those finals over a period of time and the manner in which those games were played, as well, it is a really healthy rivalry," Wallace said yesterday.

The Richmond coach was critical of the commitment of Richmond's fans this year, in particular the dismal showing of 21,300 for Matthew Richardson's 200th league game on Sunday against Port Adelaide.

Wallace urged the fans to show up on Saturday and warned that the club could not progress if supporters did not buy a ticket and come to see their team.

"The ones who are there are just fantastic, they're loud and they're vibrant, and I reckon 25,000 Richmond supporters sounds like 40,000 of anyone else, just the manner in which they do genuinely support," Wallace said.

"But I think because of where we've been as a club, we're inclined to get a few fair-weatheries at the moment.

"We'll jump on if it's going all right and we'll jump off if it's not going all right."

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2005/05/03/1115092498103.html?oneclick=true

Online WilliamPowell

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2005, 07:56:53 PM »
The Richmond coach was critical of the commitment of Richmond's fans this year, in particular the dismal showing of 21,300 for Matthew Richardson's 200th league game on Sunday against Port Adelaide.

Wallace urged the fans to show up on Saturday and warned that the club could not progress if supporters did not buy a ticket and come to see their team.

"The ones who are there are just fantastic, they're loud and they're vibrant, and I reckon 25,000 Richmond supporters sounds like 40,000 of anyone else, just the manner in which they do genuinely support," Wallace said.


I have to say I agree with Tezza on this. I was extremely disappointed with the crowd size on Sunday. It was Richo's 200th and I just reckon the crowd should have been bigger.

It was a massive game, a chance to toast a true tiger and there should have been at least 25-30K there - we have nearly 28,000 ticketed members for crying out loud - where were they? >:(
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2005, 08:20:49 PM »
The Richmond coach was critical of the commitment of Richmond's fans this year, in particular the dismal showing of 21,300 for Matthew Richardson's 200th league game on Sunday against Port Adelaide.

Wallace urged the fans to show up on Saturday and warned that the club could not progress if supporters did not buy a ticket and come to see their team.

"The ones who are there are just fantastic, they're loud and they're vibrant, and I reckon 25,000 Richmond supporters sounds like 40,000 of anyone else, just the manner in which they do genuinely support," Wallace said.


I have to say I agree with Tezza on this. I was extremely disappointed with the crowd size on Sunday. It was Richo's 200th and I just reckon the crowd should have been bigger.

It was a massive game, a chance to toast a true tiger and there should have been at least 25-30K there - we have nearly 28,000 ticketed members for crying out loud - where were they? >:(

i agree
some tosser rang sen today whinging that tw was wrong to say that as sunday games are hard to get to!
what a load of bs, u make sacrifices for an occasion like that!

all those tiger fans who didnt go missed a gr8 day gr8 occasion which we will never forget, richos 200th, blings and meyers 1st game will be remember till i die

Moi

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2005, 08:42:53 PM »
According to Tezza on Fox tonight, it's the Greeks fault the crowds were down  :rollin
Supposed to have been some Greek celebration that day and as we have a lot of them following us, that's why there was a poor crowd.
Lift your game you guys lol

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2005, 04:16:29 AM »
According to Tezza on Fox tonight, it's the Greeks fault the crowds were down  :rollin
Supposed to have been some Greek celebration that day and as we have a lot of them following us, that's why there was a poor crowd.
Lift your game you guys lol

It's all om21's fault  ;)  :rollin.

Orthodox Easter last weekend - Greeks, Russians, Serbs and Middle Eastern Christians.

This crowd number was poor but it was still 5,000 more than last time at the Dome against Port and that was the weekend following Jack Dyer's passing :-\.

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Offline LondonTiger

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2005, 06:59:58 AM »
I hate Carlton

Bring on a big crowd, so we can stick it to them in style!

Offline om21

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2005, 10:25:38 AM »
HAHAHAHA I didnt want to bring it up as an excuse because seriously that is farcical.
Ill give you guys an example:

We go to the footy as a group of 10-15....thats me, my uncle, my dad and his mates. We all have reserved seats. On Sunday only 3 of the group rocked up.

For me and the old man......I dont care what day of the week or what time or what is on...when the footy is on, the world stops. Like I said to my uncle who tried to defend his non-appearance. If you have to make an effort to see family JUST because its Easter, then you are the one who has sinned, not me.

The best part about it? I had the best time. The way the game was.....we ate a mad lamb at 12. Colonial at 1:30....drinking, hi-5ing...singing. Why anyone would want to miss that? I dont know...
Den uparxei Ellada xwris AEK.

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Ox

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2005, 02:04:34 PM »
Idont hate any team like i hate colonwood.
To me they symbolise all that is wrong with society.
Prejudie,uneducated and egotistical.

For this reason alone I bboast nothing but pure hatred toward them.

Offline mightytiges

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Sugar reflects on Blue rivalry
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2005, 04:03:01 PM »
Skipper reflects on Blue rivalry
2:38:32 PM Thu 5 May, 2005
Matt Burgan
Exclusive to richmondfc.com.au

Make no mistake Kane Johnson is a Tiger through and through.

Although he will always be known as a dual premiership player with Adelaide, the newly-appointed Richmond captain followed the yellow and black as a kid and reignited that passion when he landed at Punt Rd at the end of the 2002 season.

The 27 year-old, 146-game player, is well-versed in Richmond's proud history and its rivalry with some of the biggest clubs in the AFL.

On Saturday, the Tigers host Carlton at the MCG. It's a rivalry that stretches back as far as Richmond's first-ever VFL/AFL final in 1916. And although the Blues prevailed by three points on that occasion, it was the first of 22 finals matches fought between the two clubs.

With the 195th clash set to take place, Johnson has been reflecting on his earliest memories of the rivalry with Carlton.

As a youngster he remembered Richmond's most recent grand final appearance, although the performance of Tiger great Maurice Rioli, who won the Norm Smith Medal in a losing side, was not the first thing that sprung to mind.

"The 1982 grand final, when Richmond were beaten that day, that was probably my earliest recall of the game," Johnson said.

"Dad went to the game and I was at home and all I can remember was that stripper (Helen D'Amico) running across the ground. I was about four years old then, so that was my earliest recognition of it.

"Richmond has got some arch-enemies in Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon, but I reckon Richmond and Carlton is the main one, just from those grand finals in the 60s and 70s and in 1982."

As one of Richmond's most important players, the much-admired Johnson said the club was expecting a bumper contest for its round seven clash, which he was hoping would ultimately bring Richmond its 81st victory over Carlton.

"It will be a real interesting hit-out and any team that's under (Carlton coach) Denis Pagan is going to be a real competitive unit and obviously the same with (Richmond coach) Terry Wallace, so I think it will be a really interesting game to watch," Johnson said.

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=200604
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Sugar reflects on Blue rivalry
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2005, 04:28:27 PM »
Quote
"The 1982 grand final, when Richmond were beaten that day, that was probably my earliest recall of the game," Johnson said.

"Dad went to the game and I was at home and all I can remember was that stripper (Helen D'Amico) running across the ground. I was about four years old then, so that was my earliest recognition of it.

THe 1982 GF is the only GF I've been to. Stood with my dad on the wing behind the ground level seats in the old Northern Stand. We finished that year on top and easily bet Carlton in the semi-final. Went to the game expecting win and we were up by a couple at half-time. Everthing fell apart after that  :'(. Think it's the only time I cried after a footy game. Geez I hated Carlton after that and I was only 9 lol. Softened that attitude to the Blues as it's been sadly 23 years since we've reached the big day  :(. Plus there was the SOS campaign when a old-timers game was organised to generate donations to save the club and we've had some good wins that have upset their applecart like the last game in 97 and the 2001 SF. Also good to see them finally get sprung for cheating and Jack Elliot banished :thumbsup.

The team I love to beat like Ox is the Pies. Don't really hate them (how could you hate a club that's only won 1 flag in 45 years). Moreso for the amusement factor. Always a good feeling to see their "loyal" cocky supporters leaving at half way in the last quarter and seeing Eddie's sad face lol :thumbsup.   
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

PuntRdRoar

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Re: Richmond vs Carlton rivalry
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2005, 02:28:24 PM »
On behalf of my fellow greek and orthodox brethren i wish to humbly apologise for our non appearance at the game. maybe whenever we have orthodox easter we should have a monday night game instead  ;)

Regards
Ramps

Offline one-eyed

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Bad blood
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2005, 04:57:06 AM »
Bad blood
By Rohan Connolly
The Age
May 7, 2005

Richmond coach Terry Wallace during the week called on Tiger supporters to revive the club's great rivalry with Carlton when the two clubs clash at the MCG today.

It must have been an appeal pitched exclusively to those Richmond supporters under 30. Because no football follower any older would need to be reminded of just how much the Tigers and Blues hated each other. And in some cases, still do.

From the time Richmond won its first premiership for 24 years in 1967, through to the mid-1970s, the two clubs ruled the VFL roost. They shared seven of the eight premierships won between 1967-74, the Tigers winning four, the Blues three.

The two giants of the VFL had the cream of the footballing crop; names such as Royce Hart, Kevin Bartlett, Francis Bourke for Richmond, stars the calibre of John Nicholls, Alex Jesaulenko and Robert Walls for the Blues.

Over 16 seasons between 1967-82, they met 11 times in finals, four times on grand final day. Those September clashes were invariably physical, memorable and usually controversial. And they came to an ugly head on grand final day 1973 in a couple of incidents that still raise a remarkable amount of emotion 32 years later.

Richmond had been the hottest of favourites a year previously, but was sensationally trumped by a Carlton side that adopted all-out attack and rattled up a record grand final score of 28.9 (177) to win by 27 points. The surprise loss stuck in Tiger craws all of 1973. And Richmond wasn't about to let slip the chance for atonement.

Three minutes into the game, Tiger defender Laurie Fowler famously KO'd Carlton captain-coach Nicholls, the Blues' giant leader in a fog for the rest of the afternoon. But the moment that pushed Carlton's emotions to breaking point came late in the second term, when Blues full-back Geoff Southby, trying to gather the ball, was knocked senseless by a swinging round-arm blow from tough Tiger Neil Balme. Southby, a key to Carlton's side, was helped from the ground, not to return. His opponent, Balme, who had broken David McKay's jaw in the 1972 play-off, wasn't reported, played on and helped Richmond to a famous 30-point win. And more than 30 years on, the memory still upsets the Blues.

"It left a sour taste in the mouths of Carlton people," says Walls. His former teammate, ruckman Peter "Percy" Jones, goes further. "We already hated each other a fair bit, but what they ended up doing to us in '73, that was the icing on the cake.

"Everyone was upset by that because he (Southby) was a ball player . . . He was just a marked man. He was taken out."

Less than four years ago, asked for his take on the Southby-Balme clash, Nicholls exploded into a withering diatribe about Balme. "I didn't respect him as a player because I reckon he was a cheat," Nicholls teed off. "He used to dwell on players and with his big, strong frame, he should have been doing more courageous things. People over the years say Balmey knocked a couple out, but he basically king-hit people."

Reminded of that spray this week, Balme responded as always. He's not particularly proud of what he did, but nor ashamed. They were different times, different standards.

Balme says when told of Nicholls' remarks, he felt sorry for him. "You get a bit disappointed because it's very easy to sit back now and tee off. It's a bit late in the piece to be starting to make judgements now, I reckon. We liked to beat them, they liked to beat us. I don't hate anyone from Carlton."

Southby is less flustered by it all than most of his contemporaries. "I see it nearly every year, and so does Balmey, and he's probably had enough of it more than I have. I'm pretty sure Balmey regrets it, and I've got a lot of time for what he's done in his career afterwards, so you move on and try to forgive and forget, but it certainly added to the spice of it all."

And continued to. When the teams next clashed, in round three of 1974, senior Carlton players were told in no uncertain terms that Balme was to be dealt with but Balme walked from the field relatively unscathed.

When the Tigers and Blues met in a final in 1975, Walls remembers Nicholls again placing his players on notice about "flying the flag". "I remember there was a bit of a kerfuffle in the second quarter, and with that in mind, I flew in there and I hit Kevin Morris. I got reported and ended up getting four weeks, but it was just the expected thing to do," Walls says.

A few years back, when the thorny issue of 1973 arose, Jones, speaking about the Tigers, said the likes of Balme and former Richmond tough man Mal Brown would never be welcome at Optus Oval. "That's presuming we'd ever want to go there," Balme shot back, impassively.

In 1998, when former Tiger Kevin Sheedy celebrated his record-breaking game as Essendon coach, sports psychologist Rudi Webster, who had worked with Sheedy at Windy Hill, but previously with Richmond and Carlton, was a guest speaker.

While in town, Webster stayed with close friend and former Carlton full-back and chairman of selectors Wes Lofts. And when Webster turned up at Lofts' place late one night with Sheedy in tow for a convivial drink, Lofts was less than amused.

Webster had been a central figure in another famous Richmond-Carlton "battle", this one between respective coaches, Jones for the Blues, and Tony Jewell for the Tigers, at quarter-time of the 1980 qualifying final. Webster had worked for Carlton and been involved in its 1979 premiership win, but crossed to Punt Road the following season.

"He'd been on the ground holding up the cup with us the year before, and here he was, with the opposition, and the most hated of them all," Jones explains. "I came walking out at quarter-time, and saw him in their group. I made a racist comment, which I shouldn't have: 'You're supposed to be a Carlton man, you something something.' Tony Jewell turned to me and said: 'What did you say?' I said: 'You heard'. Words became words, and he came haring at me. I thought: 'poo, he wouldn't hit me in front of all these people, would he?' As he got closer, he slowed down. I gave him a shove, he gave me a shove, and that was it."

It was Carlton who would have the last laugh, again beating hot favourite Richmond in the 1982 grand final, a day that signalled the beginning of the Tigers' demise as a power, a position the club has spent more than the past 20 years struggling vainly to regain.

But even since, the Tigers have managed on occasion to rise to the extra spur provided by navy blue opposition, in 1997 knocking Carlton out of the final eight in the last round, and their most recent win over the Blues coming in the 2001 first semi-final.

Buoyed by four wins and its eclipse of reigning premier Port Adelaide last week, Richmond today has one of its best chances to throw a spanner in Carlton's works. The Blues need to keep winning just as badly. But if players on either side need any more "feeling", they'll need only to glance around the former club greats still playing out perhaps football's greatest enmity more than a quarter of a century later.

Why Richmond and Carlton hate each other

■ Geoff Southby incident, 1973 grand final
■ Laurie Fowler shirtfront on John Nicholls, 1973 grand final
■ Carlton upset Richmond in 1972 grand final, kicking record 28.9 (177)
■ Opposing coaches Tony Jewell and Peter Jones clashed physically at quarter-time of 1980 qualifying final
■ All-in brawl in first quarter of 1982 grand final

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2005/05/06/1115092686664.html

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Bad blood
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2005, 05:17:16 AM »
Quote
Less than four years ago, asked for his take on the Southby-Balme clash, Nicholls exploded into a withering diatribe about Balme. "I didn't respect him as a player because I reckon he was a cheat," Nicholls teed off.

Nicholls can talk. Who took a dive that got Neville Crowe rubbed out of his only chance to play and captain in a grand final and a premiership.

Quote
Why Richmond and Carlton hate each other

■ Geoff Southby incident, 1973 grand final
■ Laurie Fowler shirtfront on John Nicholls, 1973 grand final
■ Carlton upset Richmond in 1972 grand final, kicking record 28.9 (177)
■ Opposing coaches Tony Jewell and Peter Jones clashed physically at quarter-time of 1980 qualifying final
■ All-in brawl in first quarter of 1982 grand final

Not forgetting the 1969 grand final as well: http://oneeyed-richmond.com/history/1969gf.htm

OER's tribute to the 1973 Premiership is here also: http://oneeyed-richmond.com/history/1973gf.htm
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd