List analysis [merged]

[Chuck17]

List is stuffed, Ramps start up the rebuild is a failure thread please

Itll be coming back shortly if we lose to Carlton 

Good stuff it should really get interesting around here if we lose round 2

[the claw]

we currently have 12 players whose contract ends this yr. imo all are expendable if need be. i hope like hell we are not re-signing any of these blokes until the end of the season. imo we will need to cut all up about 10 players come season end.
imo we will need to find the following after we cull the dead wood.most likely we wont be able to address all needs.
2 ruckmen. id cut big o and look to find a 24yo and a rookie.
2 tall forwards. desperately need a gunston type and a big power forward.
2 tall defenders.  desperatly need a big powerful fb who can play 1v1.  would also be looking for a good junior to play chb in a few yrs.
3 mids. 1 big inside mid,  two quick running mids who have good size and who have real good footskills and can find a bit of ball if need be.we need blokes who can run the lines and hurt with ball in hand
1 specialist flanker. still chasing a real clever fwd and skilled hard at it rebounding defender.

those out of contract are
dea, hes injured and unless he can get on the park and stake a claim id say hes gone.
batchelor, to many weaknesses and is superfluous to needs imo. to small to play on the big blokes and too slow to play on the smls. just not clean and continually fumbles.
a edwards, with lennon and hopefully ohanlon around the place at 31 id be hoping we are at least looking to retire him depending on how things go.
s edwards, imo would have trade value hes had long enough. no polish and too many mediocre performances.
helbig, if he cant crack a game and show something at the level hes in big trouble in yr 4.
king, retire him hes what 30 31 and not good enough.
newman 32yo who doesnt really have an effective role to play anymore. too slow to play on sml for isnt a mid and i reckon he is just taking games away from developing forwards like lennon lloyd even banfield.
petterd, delist just so ordinary why we even rookied him yet alone promoted him is way beyond me.
ohanlon , young and had injury would like to keep but the fact hes done so little and is out of contract could see him in strife.
arnot , would like to keep but i do have issues with him we have too many who lack polish as it is.
rookies
stephenson, delist/retire  cant see the logic in keeping him this yr with hampson on board. we should really be developing a young rookie ruckman here.
darrou 3 yrs  on the rookie list has to stake a claim at least for promotion or face the cut. because of the state of our tall stocks im loath to cut any tall atm.
williams another i like and he missed last yr basically.   but hes going to have to show something or be in trouble.

two others id be shopping around if things dont improve are grigg and foley. unlike some around here ive had a bit of time for foley but he no longer performs an inside role. hes just not skilled enough for a running role imo again it comes bach to that polish issue. grigg yep his run is great but ffs you need more than that in todays game.to be so poor in almost every other area of the game is laughable. give ellis his job and just pee the weak prick off and find players who are prepared to everything thats needed at the level.

[Diocletian]

Agree with most of that Santa....except Bach was German, not Polish.

[Mr Magic]

Would love to hear from Blair on how his recruits are travelling.

[mightytiges]

List Analysis - 19/10/2014

Age - as of April 2015 (start of the season)

32: Newman (251)
-------------------------------------------
29: Foley (154), Maric (132), Chaplin (185)
28: Deledio (214), Knights (101), Thomas# (100)
27: Grigg (124), Hampson (74)
26: S.Edwards (152), Houli (114), Morris (64), Petterd (83), Riewoldt (157)
25: Cotchin (131), Gordon (14), Lloyd (8 ), Rance (107)
24: Astbury (37), Vickery (87)
23: Batchelor (52), Dea (31), Griffiths (35), Grimes (45), Martin (108 ), Miles (23)
-------------------------------------------
22: Conca (71), Elton (1)
21: Arnot (8 ), Ellis (65), McDonough (8 ), McIntosh (-), Vlastuin (38 )
20: McBean (-)
19: Lennon (7), Soldo# (-)
18: new draftees ....

Oldies: 1 (-3 from 2014)
Prime: 25  (+4)
Youth: 10 + new draftees (-9) .... we have 4 draft picks to come.


Experience

200+ games:  2 (+1 from 2014)
150-199:       4 (+2)
100-149:       8 (-1)
50-99:          7 (-3)
25-49:          5
1-25:            7 (-4)
Yet to debut:  3 + new draftees (-3) ....... 4 draft picks to come.



Height (cm)

Rucks       (200+):     6 - Soldo# (204), McBean (202), Hampson (201), Griffiths (200), Maric (200), Vickery (200)

Big KPPs    (195-199):  4 - Elton (197), Astbury (195), Riewoldt (195), Chaplin (195)

KPPs        (191-194):  3 - Rance (194), Grimes (193), McIntosh* (192)

Tall Mids   (186-190):  9 - Grigg (190), Batchelor (188 ), Deledio (188 ), Lennon (188 ), Martin (187), Vlastuin (187), Dea (186), Gordon (186), Thomas# (186)

Mids        (181-185):  8 - Conca (185), Cotchin (185), Morris (185), Petterd (185), Knights (184), Newman (183), S.Edwards (182), Ellis (181)

Smalls      (sub 180):  6 - Arnot (180), Houli (180), Lloyd (180), McDonough (180), Miles (179), Foley (178 )

* more a utility type player.


Weight (kg)

100+:   5 - Hampson (106), Soldo# (104), Maric (102), Griffiths (102), Elton (100)

95-99:  4 - Vickery (98 ), Chaplin (97), Rance (96), Astbury (95)

90-94:  3 - McBean (93), Riewoldt (92), Martin (90)

85-89: 11 - Deledio (89), Grimes (89), McIntosh (89), Batchelor (88 ), Thomas# (87), Arnot (86), Dea (86), Gordon (86), Grigg (86), Vlastuin (86), Petterd (85)

80-84: 11 - Cotchin (85), Houli (84), Ellis (84), Knights (84), Conca (83), Lloyd (83), Morris (83), McDonough (82), S.Edwards (81), Newman (81), Miles (80)

sub80:  2 - Foley (79), Lennon (77)


Positions

Small/medium defenders:  Houli, Newman, Morris, Vlastuin, Batchelor, Dea

Tall defenders: Rance, Grimes, Chaplin, Astbury

Midfielders: Cotchin, Deledio, Martin, Miles, Ellis, Conca, S.Edwards, Foley, Grigg, Arnot, Thomas#

Small/medium forwards: Knights, McDonough, Lennon, Lloyd, Gordon

Tall forwards: Riewoldt, Vickery, Griffiths, McBean

Rucks: Maric, Hampson, Soldo#

Swingmen: Elton, Petterd, McIntosh

[mightytiges]

Summary

* The bulk of our list will be in the "prime" zone in 2015. We now have a mature list with a large core group between the ages of 23-29. This list should be playing finals again based on quantity. Any failure to do so will demonstrate a lack of quality and expose the holes within the list structure.

* I can see why the Club is focusing on this draft and it's nothing to do with what we did. or rather didn't, do in the trade/FA period. The number of youngsters that made up a significant chunk of our list from 2010 until now, has thinned out. By round 1, 2015, we will only have 10 Tigers (from this year) under 23 years of age. Time to re-stock with youth to prevent any future age bracket gaps.

* Midfield depth and speed required. Club says this will be remedied via the upcoming National draft.

* Ruck depth required. Still dependent on Maric staying fit on the park. Need to target another ruckman in the drafts as well.

* Forward line issues still yet unresolved. Outside of Jack, KPPs unproven/unreliable and no proven quality & reliable small forwards. Club has said previously it wants to back in those 'youngsters' coming through.

[WA Tiger]

Interesting talk back on SEN this morning, a lot of people calling in listing their bottom 4, Richmond has come up a few times and people are saying we have a talentless list. Talk back show hosts are saying we are not bottom 4 but we don't have a top 8 list either. They were also very surprised at why we were inactive in the trade period...Wow, seems there are more people saying the same things instead of looking at this club and list through rose coloured glasses.

[Loui Tufga]

Interesting talk back on SEN this morning, a lot of people calling in listing their bottom 4, Richmond has come up a few times and people are saying we have a talentless list. Talk back show hosts are saying we are not bottom 4 but we don't have a top 8 list either. They were also very surprised at why we were inactive in the trade period...Wow, seems there are more people saying the same things instead of looking at this club and list through rose coloured glasses.

LMAO that you even take talk back radio half serious
Not many had us in the top right at the beginning of last season either and 6 games in talkback radio had us starting a full rebuild!

[Owl]

I suppose some sort of hat is in order then...

[Mr Magic]

Don't think anyone is looking at the club through rose coloured glasses.

[Loui Tufga]

I suppose some sort of hat is in order then...

Yes, preferably not the same style as Francis Jackson and Dan Richardson are wearing

[WA Tiger]

Interesting talk back on SEN this morning, a lot of people calling in listing their bottom 4, Richmond has come up a few times and people are saying we have a talentless list. Talk back show hosts are saying we are not bottom 4 but we don't have a top 8 list either. They were also very surprised at why we were inactive in the trade period...Wow, seems there are more people saying the same things instead of looking at this club and list through rose coloured glasses.

LMAO that you even take talk back radio half serious
Not many had us in the top right at the beginning of last season either and 6 games in talkback radio had us starting a full rebuild!

Should we only listen to talk back or the radio or others opinions when they say nice fluffy things about our club???????

[Loui Tufga]

I'd certainly take more notice of what the club says as opposed to talk back radio yes.
If we listend and heeded to the opinion of talk back radio Wind Hill would have been burnt to the ground 18months ago. (Not that that's a bad thing)

[the claw]

Summary

* The bulk of our list will be in the "prime" zone in 2015. We now have a mature list with a large core group between the ages of 23-29. This list should be playing finals again based on quantity. Any failure to do so will demonstrate a lack of quality and expose the holes within the list structure.

* I can see why the Club is focusing on this draft and it's nothing to do with what we did. or rather didn't, do in the trade/FA period. The number of youngsters that made up a significant chunk of our list from 2010 until now, has thinned out. By round 1, 2015, we will only have 10 Tigers (from this year) under 23 years of age. Time to re-stock with youth to prevent any future age bracket gaps.

* Midfield depth and speed required. Club says this will be remedied via the upcoming National draft.

* Ruck depth required. Still dependent on Maric staying fit on the park. Need to target another ruckman in the drafts as well.

* Forward line issues still yet unresolved. Outside of Jack, KPPs unproven/unreliable and no proven quality & reliable small forwards. Club has said previously it wants to back in those 'youngsters' coming through.

* the bulk of our list has been in a prime age zone since the start of 2012.

* the club is focusing on the draft because it has neglected juniors over the past 3 yrs. our junior stocks have been relatively low right thru. and taking just 1 junior last yr did not help matters.juniors to me are aged 18 - 21.
juniors who get to this stage become development players  22 - 24. they then become mature players at or very close to their prime 25 - 28. they then become vets 29plus if their bodies have held up.
just the way i break it down. and there has been no balance the last few yrs in how we go about the list.they are now forced to take some kids its not by planning.

* midfield depth has been an issue for yrs yet we draft flankers.and we take few mids.
our trouble is there are other key areas that have to also be addressed. areas that take much longer to actually develop and get players up to standard and probably should be addressed first. it makes you wonder what blair francis and the footy dept have been doing for yrs on end.

* our ruck stocks are shizen, reality is there is just ivan, hampson  is a liability and theres  a kid who has to learn the game and hopefully develop. to be sure we need two ruckmen. one mature so we can pee hamspud off and a junior.

* agree fwd line issues remain. there is just riewoldt if we are honest about the roles of vickery and griffiths. we desperately need two quality tall fwds. we need a quality sml fwd as well if not two.
to top this of we also need tall defenders. athletic chb and a big fb.  there is only elton and i seriously have to ask is he a kpd or will he even make it.

at least mt you acknowledge a shortage of talls most won even mention it.

[the claw]

our mids genuine mids not flankers we hope can become quality mids.

grigg - we all say it and see it. we must find a more rounded and better skilled player.
arnot - some like him but reality is there are questions about him making it.
conca - no comment lets just say hes okay to save the arguments.
cotchin - tick
deledio - tick
ellis - tick i  have issues with parts of his game thats as far as i will take it. we could play him and not play grigg.
foley - tick
martin - tick
miles - tick
thomas - as a rookie tick. we all want more rounded players.

to my way of thinking that is the list of genuine mids.
flankers who are capable of becoming mids
vlastuin - tick
edwards - like conca wont go there for arguments sake.
gordon - dont see it
lennon - junior fwd who may become a decent mid.
mcdonough - fwd who may be able to rotate thru the middle. ??????
 even with the flankers we are  about 4 short both inside and outside mids.