Author Topic: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)  (Read 13133 times)

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2012, 07:57:18 AM »
Demons to set battle lines

    Jon Pierik
    The Age
    December 23, 2012


LAWYERS acting on behalf of the Melbourne Football Club have confirmed they have received evidence in the tanking claims lodged against the club.

The lawyers will use the holiday period to dissect the document delivered by the AFL late on Friday, with a response expected to be lodged by the end of January.

It is understood the Demons will fight the case and believe tanking is a complex issue with no specific definition.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/demons-to-set-battle-lines-20121222-2bsqk.html#ixzz2FogQmMXR

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2013, 05:50:14 AM »
Tank probe: Dozen witness statements could cook careers in Melbourne investigation

    Jay Clark
    From: Herald Sun
    January 04, 2013


FIGURES connected to the Melbourne tanking investigation have been told up to a dozen people have "rolled over" about how the club has managed past lists.

The statements potentially incriminate Demons administrators amid growing fears the club and individuals could face serious league sanctions.

The Herald Sun can reveal some of the interviewees were subsequently told as many as 12 people had provided the AFL's investigators with potentially incriminating details about the club's intent throughout the second half of the 2009 campaign.

The AFL has stated it expects to make a decision on any charges by the end of the month.

If guilty, Melbourne could be stripped of draft picks or fined.

But there is a growing belief the AFL would prefer to penalise individuals for wrongdoing.

The AFL investigation has centred on comments made in a Demons football department meeting run by football operations manager Chris Connolly, allegedly reminding staff about the importance of the extra draft pick.

It is also believed it has inquired about knowledge of a follow-up meeting between former coach Dean Bailey and chief executive Cameron Schwab at Schwab's house.

Unusual tactical moves in the Dees' losses to Sydney (Round 17) and Richmond (Round 18) have been the subject of intense speculation.

It is believed up to 20 people were interviewed by AFL investigators Brett Clothier and Abraham Haddad, including Bailey, Schwab, Connolly, ex-captain James McDonald and current football manager Josh Mahoney.

Others included Scott West, Kelly O'Donnell, Sean Wellman, Mark Williams and ex-recruiting boss Barry Prendergast.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/tank-probe-dozen-witness-statements-could-cook-careers/story-fnelctok-1226547335584

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #77 on: January 07, 2013, 01:08:01 AM »
But there is a growing belief the AFL would prefer to penalise individuals for wrongdoing.

 :whistle :whistle :whistle

Assholes

Offline Penelope

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #78 on: January 07, 2013, 08:53:15 AM »
punishing individuals is the way to go.

why should the individuals responsible get off just because they dont work at the club any more?

why should current administrators/coaches cop the whack for stuff that went down if they were not at the club at the time?

there does still need to be sanctions against the club, but it is the individuals responsible that need to feel the brunt of the penalties.
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2013, 05:10:22 AM »
Dees' charges revealed

    Jon Pierik
    The Age
    January 8, 2013


LAWYERS representing the Melbourne Football Club and former coach Dean Bailey are dissecting a whopping 800 pages of evidence, and all but vowing to take the AFL to court if found guilty of allegations of tanking.

The Demons board, chief executive Cameron Schwab, Chris Connolly – the former football manager still working at the club – and Bailey, must show reason by the end of the month to interim AFL football operations manager Gillon McLachlan as to why they should not be charged.

The detailed and explosive documents fill two folders and were handed to all parties on the eve of Christmas.

As tension between those facing sanctions and the AFL increases, it has emerged that Bailey is facing three allegations: bringing the game into disrepute, tampering with the national draft, and not coaching to his utmost in 2009.

Schwab and Connolly are facing charges of bringing the game into disrepute and tampering with the draft.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dees-charges-revealed-20130107-2ccw7.html#ixzz2HJY02t8

gerkin greg

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2013, 08:02:00 AM »
Like Cuzzy, you cannot challenge 'bringing the game into disrepute'

It's off to Guantanamo for these chaps

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2013, 12:59:38 PM »
FORMER St Kilda coach Grant Thomas says tanking charges against Melbourne will blow up in the AFL's face if they end up in court.

Thomas, a vocal critic of league headquarters and CEO Andrew Demetriou, says the AFL is complicit in any rule breaking because it provided an incentive for clubs to lose.

Former Melbourne coach Dean Bailey and officials Cameron Schwab and Chris Connolly are believed to face charges including draft tampering and bringing the game into disrepute.

The AFL's tanking investigation centres on the 2009 season, when the Demons lost six of their last seven matches to finish the season on four wins and qualify for a priority draft pick.

"AFL is putting themselves into a corner with tanking saga that will eventually expose their own behavior & test their strategies legally," Thomas tweeted today.

"Any decent senior counsel would be able to rip the AFL apart in a witness box. Honorable Andy won't want to get in the box - GUARANTEED!"

Thomas said players always tried to win but officials could make decisions to reduce their chances.

He said it was impossible to prove the real motivation behind selection decisions and calls from the coach's box on game day. But he had little doubt tanking was real.

"If comp manager provides incentive for losing what do u expect? Players try but club realise greater reward is extra draft pick than 5th win."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tanking-charges-against-the-melbourne-football-club-out-in-the-open/story-e6frf7jo-1226549291328

Offline one-eyed

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Melb vs Rich 2009 - the 3 minutes that mattered ... (Age)
« Reply #82 on: January 09, 2013, 03:53:05 AM »
The 3 minutes that mattered

   Jon Pierik
    The Age
    January 9, 2013


AFL investigators have focused on the final three minutes of Melbourne's after-the-siren loss to Richmond in 2009 and have even questioned whether players deliberately fumbled the ball as part of an explosive probe into tanking.

Documents, as part of an 800- page report, distributed to lawyers of the Melbourne Football Club, confirm serious questions have been raised about the coaching of Dean Bailey in round 18 and the club's interchange rotations through the season.

Suspicions over the Demons' motives were raised through a number of positional moves in a game in which Richmond's Jordan McMahon marked on the final siren and booted the winning goal.

The decision by the Demons to send lumbering ruckman Paul Johnson to full-back on small forward Nathan Brown has been a focus of questioning, as revealed in the documents. Brown has said previously he was surprised to have been manned by Johnson.

The report, which fills two folders, also investigates the round-17 loss to Sydney at Manuka Oval, when the Demons made eight pre-match changes, and the round-22 loss to St Kilda, which ensured the Demons of the coveted top two picks in the national draft.

"They are the games that just keep on coming up, especially the Richmond one," a source close to the Demons said.

"The last two or three minutes of that Richmond game is what they [investigators] really centre on."

The Demons took the lead with three minutes remaining, with the ball trapped in the Tigers' forward line in the final seconds until McMahon marked alone at centre half-forward and slotted through the winning goal.

It is understood those interviewed have denied claims the players fumbled on purpose in the final minutes.

Lawyers for all parties on the Melbourne side maintain that the AFL, led by its investigators Brett Clothier and Abraham Haddad, cannot prove anything in this regard and have vowed to fight any charges.

The documents also question the Demons' interchange rotations. There are suggestions the Demons had a high number of rotations in their four wins for the season, but cut numbers in other games.

Under then AFL draft rules, the Demons would get picks one and two following two successive seasons of managing no more than 16 premiership points.

The Demons averaged 85 rotations a game in 2009, although this was as high as 93 up to round 15 – the day they beat Port Adelaide for their third win of the year and jeopardised hopes of a priority pick. The AFL average for rotations was 92.

The Demons had 82 rotations in their round-four win over the Tigers, 98 in round 14 in a win over West Coast, and 94 a week later in the win over the Power.

In the contentious loss to the Tigers three weeks later, the number of rotations would plummet to 47, the fewest by any team that season, with 49 against North Melbourne the next week.

However, investigators have queried why they would then have 99 interchanges in a win over Fremantle in round 20 at the MCG. This was by far their biggest number after round 15. The Demons had only 56 rotations in the round-21 loss to Carlton, a match in which it is believed club fitness and medical staff have been questioned about certain events, including the game-ending injuries of defender Matthew Whelan and forward Ricky Petterd.

It is the round-18 loss to the Tigers that has dominated questioning, for there were several moves, later branded experimental, that added to suggestions the Demons did not want to win. These included premier midfielder James McDonald being sent to the back line, key defenders James Frawley and Matthew Warnock spending most of the afternoon up forward, and regular forward Brad Miller used as a midfielder. Forwards Colin Sylvia and Russell Robertson were left in the VFL. Brock McLean, who sparked the investigation, did not play.

The Demons have until the end of the month to respond to the claims.

Bailey is facing three allegations: bringing the game into disrepute, tampering with the national draft, and not coaching to his utmost in 2009.

Chief executive Cameron Schwab and former football manager Chris Connolly are facing charges of bringing the game into disrepute and tampering with the draft.

As per AFL Regulation 19 (A5), tanking is defined as "a person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match – or in relation to any aspect for the match, for any reason whatsoever".

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-3-minutes-that-mattered-20130108-2cev1.html#ixzz2HP5fm500

gerkin greg

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2013, 09:16:15 AM »
Jordy really should be involved with our push into India

Offline torch

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2013, 10:16:03 AM »
1, Does anyone think that Melbourne will be disciplined???

2, Is it a "bluff" for Melbourne saying "we will take on the AFL if we are charged."???

3, This was four years ago now and punishing Melbourne now would just be unfair considering other clubs (Carlton, St Kilda, West Coast) have showed signs of "tanking".

4, I think the only three things Melbourne has is that for one, they are Melbourne. Two they are financially sign in trouble from reports, and three in 2010 they did not make a huge improvement ladder position wise. They could use West Coast in 2010 and say "they tanked" by putting players in "cotton wool" early, playing certain players in different positions. The following year they made the finals. "Yes", Dean Cox and Daniel Kerr didn't play most of the season.

I personally believe that if you are going to punish or discipline a club for an action, it must be done THEN and THERE!

Introduce the "Bottom 10 Lottery System". Make the event a big event similar to the NBA Draft!

With trading, that should be done 2 weeks after the Grand Final and have the "Lottery" a week after the Grand Final so it gives teams a chance to organise and plan for the trading period.

My proposed "Lottery System";

18th - 20 balls
17th - 18 balls
16th - 16 balls
15th - 14 balls
14th - 12 balls
13th - 10 balls
12th - 8 balls
11th - 6 balls
10th - 4 balls
9th   - 2 balls

Show the teams and their "balls" being put into the bowel and begin selecting a ball from pick 18 to first pick to make it more exciting!

Only select the first round picks from Pick 18 to Pick 1.

So there will be 110 balls in total and only 18 balls will be selected.

If you breakdown the chances of each club it would be fair.

18th team - 20/110 = 18%

17th team - 18/110 = 16%

etc ... and that is for only drawing out one ball!

Obviously the issue would be, "what happens if a club has been draw out 2,3 or 4 times in a row? Do they get four consecutive picks?" That is the problem with this system. What do you do???

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2013, 06:57:35 PM »
Ch 7 news tonight and last night claiming further evidence of alleged tanking by Melbourne. The Dees played 3 ruckmen against Carlton in 2009 and made only 56 rotations (similar to what they did against us). Then against Port Adelaide in a game they won, allegedly players were admonished by a high ranking official after the game for winning.

gerkin greg

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #86 on: January 09, 2013, 11:48:22 PM »
WTF would ch7 know

They can't even get players names right in their own broadcast

Duds

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2013, 05:24:18 AM »
A Melbourne supporter's view of their tanking saga ....


List management: is there a more slippery, more subjective concept in Aussie rules?

How do you ''manage your list'' to maximise your chances of losing a game? You could drop seven of your best players. Fremantle did that in 2010, going down to Hawthorn but guaranteeing themselves a home final.

You could send a raft of your best players off for season-ending surgery. Collingwood did that in 2005, losing the last eight games but gaining Scott Pendlebury and Dale Thomas.

You could deliberately pick young players. Kevin Sheedy did that in 1993 and won a premiership.

You could play players out of their normal positions. West Coast did that in 2010 and picked up Jack Darling with its priority pick, miraculously rocketing up the ladder the following year. (John Worsfold describes this juggling act as ''a development tool''; he obviously develops his tools extremely well, having led his team from a flag in 2006 to a priority pick in 2010 and a tilt at yet another flag in 2011.)

You could sit in the coach's box and ''do nothing'' while your team goes down in a vital game, as Terry Wallace has admitted doing to snare Trent Cotchin.

You could do most of the above, as Carlton - according to Libba and Fev - appears to have done.


Read more here: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/spat-over-tanking-bedevils-dees-20130111-2clhj.html


Since when is a round 22 game between 9th and 15th when neither could make the finals called as a "vital" game :huh3 

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2013, 08:28:51 AM »


Since when is a round 22 game between 9th and 15th when neither could make the finals called as a "vital" game :huh3

Well it was a vital game for us

Think it was vital at the time that we got Cotchin

 ;D

 :rollin
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2013, 11:26:19 AM »


Since when is a round 22 game between 9th and 15th when neither could make the finals called as a "vital" game :huh3

Well it was a vital game for us

Think it was vital at the time that we got Cotchin

 ;D

 :rollin

just so i understand this right.

If we won that game we wouldve ended up with Kruzer, arguably the best talent in that draft, most likely.

A loss and Cotch was on the cards.

I dont think Leather face knows what his on about, he played to win. He is that thick in the head even if he wanted to lose he wouldn't know how and we would win.

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