Liam McBean [merged]

[The Machine]

He is a tantalising talent for sure but at this stage, he is not ready for senior footy. Playing at 98kg next year and working hard on chasing, contested marking, etc next year seems more likely.

[Lozza]

Was always a long term prospect when drafted but has come on quicker in some areas than others, once he gets it altogether I am sure he will be a valuable addition.

[big tone]

It's funny, Dimma didn't think Miles was ready either. It took him till about halfway through the year to realise the kid wasn't going away. In the end Miles made Dimma look stupid.
Give McBean a go and stop being a stubborn hole! Would the world really fallen down around us all if we gave him a taste?? 

Everyone who saw Miles play knew he was ready. Every time I've seen McBean play live he hasn't chased, crashed packed or pressured the player. I never saw Miles being screamed at by his team mates from the bench to run and chase. Until he changes this side of his game then he will just continue to look good on the VFL highlights video. Don't get me wrong I think he will make it and he may surprize me if he plays this year but I don't want another forward who only runs one way and is self absorbed.

You say everybody new Miles was ready to play, but the simple fact is Dimma didn't..why did it take him half the season to play him? Cold hard facts is he got that one wrong.
With McBean I keep reading he doesn't crash packs, just because you are 200cm tall doesn't mean you are going to be that type of player. He leads at the ball carrier and takes a good mark out in front. And kicks the footy well. He is not going to get 20 touches but I'll bet the ones he does get are going to count. Same as Lennon, both just need to be playing.
Sure they need some work but every player does. Why can't they learn what's required by playing at the level?
IMO as a tall KPF McBean has done his job in the last 4 weeks at VFL level by kicking goals.
Would anyone really care if Gordon went out and this kid got his first game?
Play him deep in the forwardline instead of this crap of everyone in the backhalf of the ground with no one to kick to when we do win the footy, and let see what the kids got.
The kids has some tricks!!

[Stripes]

You say everybody new Miles was ready to play, but the simple fact is Dimma didn't..why did it take him half the season to play him? Cold hard facts is he got that one wrong.

In retrospect Dimma definitely did. At the time though he went for the proven player. He elevated Thomas and the Big O for insurance. There wasn't a place left open on the list. So they had to wait until there was. It did become embarrassing when Miles was clearly outplaying players in our side for many weeks.

With McBean I keep reading he doesn't crash packs, just because you are 200cm tall doesn't mean you are going to be that type of player. He leads at the ball carrier and takes a good mark out in front. And kicks the footy well. He is not going to get 20 touches but I'll bet the ones he does get are going to count. Same as Lennon, both just need to be playing.
Sure they need some work but every player does. Why can't they learn what's required by playing at the level?

When we don't have any chance of making finals then they will allow him the chance to learn and make mistakes at AFL level but until then there are players, who he would need to replace, who are playing a more team orientated game than he does at present

IMO as a tall KPF McBean has done his job in the last 4 weeks at VFL level by kicking goals.
Would anyone really care if Gordon went out and this kid got his first game?
Play him deep in the forwardline instead of this crap of everyone in the backhalf of the ground with no one to kick to when we do win the footy, and let see what the kids got.
The kids has some tricks!!

He kicks goals himself but doesn't stop or create goals for others. At present the slight on him isn't necessarily that he doesn't crash packs (though that does bring the ball to ground and creates crumbing goals or a stoppage at the least) but more that he doesn't defend his immediate player. Too much ball is flying out of defense through his player and he doesn't zone well either which again is all about development.

The club also questions his diet and the fact he doesn't seem to putting on the desired weight because he is eating the wrong foods and not pushing himself in the gym.

Seems to all add up to a lack of effort at the moment if you ask me. If you reward players before they really fight and earn their spot through hard work and improving their identified deficiencies, then they never improve to the level the club wants them too.

Being a forward doesn't mean just kicking goals now days otherwise Jack would be still kicking 5+ and we would be scoring 7+ as a team and losing. McBean needs to create goals through his team play and then he'll be called up.

I hope that's soon 

[the claw]

Riddle me this. Who is the leading goal kicker in the vfl?


Other clubs are looking at pinching McBean. Would be incompetence in the highest order if we don't give him games and a pay rise

its funny not many criticise this bloke at all.

1/ erm, its not funny at all.

He was a top five draft pick. and yet in his second season is leading the vfl coleman equivalent

id like to know how many contested marks this bloke  has taken this yr or how many strong hard at it aerial contests hes given.

2/ Its been widley documented that this is a weakness.

And yet, you have made not one comment in this post about his strong attributes...

hes clearly not ready and if i wanted to bring in a player to kick crumbing type goals it would be lloyd or knights.

3/ not the leading goal kicker in the victorian football league?

we are screaming out for a tall presence a bloke who hits packs takes contested marks presents up and is physical. if we want him to be a kpf ffs develop him as one. if he cant do these things ffs lets find someone who can.

4/ Yes sorry i briefly forgot riewoldt vickery griffiths are all rubbish thank you

1/it is funny you have the blinkers on.whats even funnier is you think hes a top 5 pick. try pick 33. as for kicking a few goals in the vfl  cmon do you really think he will make it at afl level as a crumbing fwd that is hilarious.

2/ what strong afl attributes does he have. i have said in other threads what few  attributes he has wont translate to afl unless he learns to play tall.  hes no buddy franklin and hes no jack gunston.

3/  as i said in the previous answer, what attributes.  he can kick as many crumbing  goals as he likes in the vfl they mean jack poo. he wont get those easy goals at afl and those type of goals will remain worthless until   he starts getting  em in a way that will translate to afl. ffs you want to bring him in for who vickeryy what role is that uber dud expected to perform.

4/ na your wrong so far griffiths and vickery have been rubbish. if you think ive criticised riewoldt then your wrong once again.

fair dinkum if was looking to play crumbing fwds id be giving youir mcdonough lennons, lloyds knights a game.

people need to get real here and wake up. if this bloke cant play tall he wont malke it at the next level.
gunna be real interesting down the track with him especially when the club thinks hes going to become a #1 ruckman. as usual not only the supporters kid em selves but the club even more.

[big tone]

You say everybody new Miles was ready to play, but the simple fact is Dimma didn't..why did it take him half the season to play him? Cold hard facts is he got that one wrong.

In retrospect Dimma definitely did. At the time though he went for the proven player. He elevated Thomas and the Big O for insurance. There wasn't a place left open on the list. So they had to wait until there was. It did become embarrassing when Miles was clearly outplaying players in our side for many weeks.

With McBean I keep reading he doesn't crash packs, just because you are 200cm tall doesn't mean you are going to be that type of player. He leads at the ball carrier and takes a good mark out in front. And kicks the footy well. He is not going to get 20 touches but I'll bet the ones he does get are going to count. Same as Lennon, both just need to be playing.
Sure they need some work but every player does. Why can't they learn what's required by playing at the level?

When we don't have any chance of making finals then they will allow him the chance to learn and make mistakes at AFL level but until then there are players, who he would need to replace, who are playing a more team orientated game than he does at present

IMO as a tall KPF McBean has done his job in the last 4 weeks at VFL level by kicking goals.
Would anyone really care if Gordon went out and this kid got his first game?
Play him deep in the forwardline instead of this crap of everyone in the backhalf of the ground with no one to kick to when we do win the footy, and let see what the kids got.
The kids has some tricks!!

He kicks goals himself but doesn't stop or create goals for others. At present the slight on him isn't necessarily that he doesn't crash packs (though that does bring the ball to ground and creates crumbing goals or a stoppage at the least) but more that he doesn't defend his immediate player. Too much ball is flying out of defense through his player and he doesn't zone well either which again is all about development.

The club also questions his diet and the fact he doesn't seem to putting on the desired weight because he is eating the wrong foods and not pushing himself in the gym.

Seems to all add up to a lack of effort at the moment if you ask me. If you reward players before they really fight and earn their spot through hard work and improving their identified deficiencies, then they never improve to the level the club wants them too.

Being a forward doesn't mean just kicking goals now days otherwise Jack would be still kicking 5+ and we would be scoring 7+ as a team and losing. McBean needs to create goals through his team play and then he'll be called up.

I hope that's soon 

Stripes, they took 2 or 3 weeks to elevate Miles after King went onto the LTI list. And a further 2 or 3 weeks to play him once they had. Dimma and his coaching head nodders got that horribly wrong. No one can defend that. Forget all that crap about who was or wasn't on the rookie list, Dimma had options before he did anything about it. Even the idiots in the Media were asking the question.

My point is don't take everything you hear from the club as gospel. The facts are they make more mistakes then they get right. Take a look at our last 30 years. I think Fitzroy have played in more finals than us in that time and they have been gone for half of it. 

As a supporter who really gives a sh-t what McBean eats??? I don't! If he is kicking goals and working on some things than just play him when he has earned it.
The sad thing about this year is we have been pathetic, and we are one lose away from it all being over if it's not already, BUT almost as bad as we have been we have only debut 1 kid and 1 twenty two year old. I would be guessing but I would imagine that would be the least in the AFL. Dimma has a problem and it needs addressing. Kids need to be drafted and played and moved on if need be.

How many chances has Griffiths been give this year? How many goals does he kick in the twos when he goes back! Why the hell you wouldn't give McBean a game is beyond me. At the end of the day it's 1 spot in 22. Hardly earth shattering stuff. It's footy, what's the worst that can happen.

Anyway I know I'm bagging my head against a wall but that's just my opinion. 

[bojangles17]

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

[Stripes]

As a supporter who really gives a sh-t what McBean eats??? I don't! If he is kicking goals and working on some things than just play him when he has earned it.

I don't care what he eats as long as he gains size and strength to help him play better and win us more games. At the moment though, according to some of our players, he isn't which is one of the reasons he's not getting a game.

The sad thing about this year is we have been pathetic, and we are one lose away from it all being over if it's not already, BUT almost as bad as we have been we have only debut 1 kid and 1 twenty two year old. I would be guessing but I would imagine that would be the least in the AFL. Dimma has a problem and it needs addressing. Kids need to be drafted and played and moved on if need be.

We have played our first three picks this year plus three rookie upgrades. We have also played McDonough, McIntosh, O'Hanalon, Arnot, Dea and I'm sure there more too.  That's 6 from the last draft (well 5 if you exclude Big O) plus plenty from the last two drafts.

How many chances has Griffiths been give this year? How many goals does he kick in the twos when he goes back! Why the hell you wouldn't give McBean a game is beyond me. At the end of the day it's 1 spot in 22. Hardly earth shattering stuff. It's footy, what's the worst that can happen.

Griffiths is a leaping ruckman with a massive kick and strong contested mark. We need a backup ruckman who can take a pack mark more than a tall crumbing forward who is unaccountable. Griffiths did get plenty of opportunities but that was more because we desperately needed his backup ruckman capabilities particularly when Vickery lost form.

Anyway I know I'm bagging my head against a wall but that's just my opinion. 

Bang away bt  I just can't see a spot for McBean at the moment unless he can improve his defensive and start taking some contested marks. I would love to see him get a game this year but while we are still a chance for finals there just isn't a spot.... imo 

[the claw]

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

you know what i agree. there is no harm in giving him a game.  just for the experience and to find out what is required.
but  put yourself in their shoes, given they are chasing finals and are very much in the now can you blame em if they dont.

my gripe is what role do we play mcbean in, if we give him a few games. no way can we expect him to perform a tall role so he cant replace a vickery or griffiths  and imo there are far better smaller options who also need games.
what message are we going to send to liam. yepp we will give you a game based on a crumbing game. or no mate your kicking goals atm but we need you to perform a different role, a role that will see you succeeed at this level.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

you know what i agree. there is no harm in giving him a game.  just for the experience and to find out what is required.
but  put yourself in their shoes, given they are chasing finals and are very much in the now can you blame em if they dont.

my gripe is what role do we play mcbean in, if we give him a few games. no way can we expect him to perform a tall role so he cant replace a vickery or griffiths  and imo there are far better smaller options who also need games.
what message are we going to send to liam. yepp we will give you a game based on a crumbing game. or no mate your kicking goals atm but we need you to perform a different role, a role that will see you succeeed at this level.

Currently he is playing the crumbing game better than anyone in the seconds. He is on top of the goal kickers with a crumbing game.  Why do you say there are better options if they haven't actually kicked the goals????????
Just because he is tall doesn't mean he has to play that way.....Sheeeeeeshhhhh!!!!

[the claw]

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

you know what i agree. there is no harm in giving him a game.  just for the experience and to find out what is required.
but  put yourself in their shoes, given they are chasing finals and are very much in the now can you blame em if they dont.

my gripe is what role do we play mcbean in, if we give him a few games. no way can we expect him to perform a tall role so he cant replace a vickery or griffiths  and imo there are far better smaller options who also need games.
what message are we going to send to liam. yepp we will give you a game based on a crumbing game. or no mate your kicking goals atm but we need you to perform a different role, a role that will see you succeeed at this level.

Just because he is tall doesn't mean he has to play that way.....Sheeeeeeshhhhh!!!!

ffs are you freakin think or dislexsic or something. IMO HE WONT MAKE IT AT AFL UNLESS HE CAN BECOME A TALL PLAYER. IM SAYING HIS CRUMBING GAME WONT TRANSLATE TO AFL. THE CLUB OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE GOOD SENSE TO THINK THE SAME WAY.
PLAY HIM ATM AND I RECKON HE WILL GET CHEWED UP AND SPAT OUT AS A SNACK.

TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
1/ HOW MANY 200CM PLUS PLAYERS HAVE BECOME GOOD PERMANENT  KPFS.
2/  HOW MANY MAKLE A LIVILIHOOD AT AFL LEVEL AS CRUMBERS WHO CANT PLAY TALL.

ANSWER THAT HONESTLY AND YOU MAY ACTUALLY WAKE UP.

[big tone]

As a supporter who really gives a sh-t what McBean eats??? I don't! If he is kicking goals and working on some things than just play him when he has earned it.

I don't care what he eats as long as he gains size and strength to help him play better and win us more games. At the moment though, according to some of our players, he isn't which is one of the reasons he's not getting a game.

The sad thing about this year is we have been pathetic, and we are one lose away from it all being over if it's not already, BUT almost as bad as we have been we have only debut 1 kid and 1 twenty two year old. I would be guessing but I would imagine that would be the least in the AFL. Dimma has a problem and it needs addressing. Kids need to be drafted and played and moved on if need be.

We have played our first three picks this year plus three rookie upgrades. We have also played McDonough, McIntosh, O'Hanalon, Arnot, Dea and I'm sure there more too.  That's 6 from the last draft (well 5 if you exclude Big O) plus plenty from the last two drafts.

How many chances has Griffiths been give this year? How many goals does he kick in the twos when he goes back! Why the hell you wouldn't give McBean a game is beyond me. At the end of the day it's 1 spot in 22. Hardly earth shattering stuff. It's footy, what's the worst that can happen.

Griffiths is a leaping ruckman with a massive kick and strong contested mark. We need a backup ruckman who can take a pack mark more than a tall crumbing forward who is unaccountable. Griffiths did get plenty of opportunities but that was more because we desperately needed his backup ruckman capabilities particularly when Vickery lost form.

Anyway I know I'm bagging my head against a wall but that's just my opinion. 

Bang away bt  I just can't see a spot for McBean at the moment unless he can improve his defensive and start taking some contested marks. I would love to see him get a game this year but while we are still a chance for finals there just isn't a spot.... imo 

Lennon and Lloyd are the only ones to debut into the AFL this year.
McDonough is the only 2nd year player of your list.
Gordon has been in the system for 4 years.
McIntosh hasn't played.
O'Hannlon and Arnot are in their 3rd year and Dea is in his 5th
Even the rockies have all played AFL before.
So I'm a little confused at what your point was? Mine was we have only debut 2 players to the AFL.

Also you say McBean is not putting on weight due to his diet but once again that's not right either, 10KGs in a couple of seasons with some injuries thrown in there is massive for a young kid.

[big tone]

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

you know what i agree. there is no harm in giving him a game.  just for the experience and to find out what is required.
but  put yourself in their shoes, given they are chasing finals and are very much in the now can you blame em if they dont.

my gripe is what role do we play mcbean in, if we give him a few games. no way can we expect him to perform a tall role so he cant replace a vickery or griffiths  and imo there are far better smaller options who also need games.
what message are we going to send to liam. yepp we will give you a game based on a crumbing game. or no mate your kicking goals atm but we need you to perform a different role, a role that will see you succeeed at this level.

Just because he is tall doesn't mean he has to play that way.....Sheeeeeeshhhhh!!!!

ffs are you freakin think or dislexsic or something. IMO HE WONT MAKE IT AT AFL UNLESS HE CAN BECOME A TALL PLAYER. IM SAYING HIS CRUMBING GAME WONT TRANSLATE TO AFL. THE CLUB OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE GOOD SENSE TO THINK THE SAME WAY.
PLAY HIM ATM AND I RECKON HE WILL GET CHEWED UP AND SPAT OUT AS A SNACK.

TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
1/ HOW MANY 200CM PLUS PLAYERS HAVE BECOME GOOD PERMANENT  KPFS.
2/  HOW MANY MAKLE A LIVILIHOOD AT AFL LEVEL AS CRUMBERS WHO CANT PLAY TALL.

ANSWER THAT HONESTLY AND YOU MAY ACTUALLY WAKE UP.

Why can't he play that leading/hit up forward? Forget his size for a second. He is quick, moves well, takes a nice grab on the lead and kicks it well. With a bonus that he is good below his knees, would be a tough match up  and even more so he thinks his way through things. He knows he cannot bustle and crash packs at his current size so he doesn't... He is a better option than O'Hanlon and has done more at VFL level and O'Hanlon has been given an opportunity. He is also a natural forward which sometimes gets lost in this. He knows where and when to lead. It sounds simple but it's a skill just as much as kicking and marking.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

you know what i agree. there is no harm in giving him a game.  just for the experience and to find out what is required.
but  put yourself in their shoes, given they are chasing finals and are very much in the now can you blame em if they dont.

my gripe is what role do we play mcbean in, if we give him a few games. no way can we expect him to perform a tall role so he cant replace a vickery or griffiths  and imo there are far better smaller options who also need games.
what message are we going to send to liam. yepp we will give you a game based on a crumbing game. or no mate your kicking goals atm but we need you to perform a different role, a role that will see you succeeed at this level.

Just because he is tall doesn't mean he has to play that way.....Sheeeeeeshhhhh!!!!

ffs are you freakin think or dislexsic or something. IMO HE WONT MAKE IT AT AFL UNLESS HE CAN BECOME A TALL PLAYER. IM SAYING HIS CRUMBING GAME WONT TRANSLATE TO AFL. THE CLUB OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE GOOD SENSE TO THINK THE SAME WAY.
PLAY HIM ATM AND I RECKON HE WILL GET CHEWED UP AND SPAT OUT AS A SNACK.

TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
1/ HOW MANY 200CM PLUS PLAYERS HAVE BECOME GOOD PERMANENT  KPFS.
2/  HOW MANY MAKLE A LIVILIHOOD AT AFL LEVEL AS CRUMBERS WHO CANT PLAY TALL.

ANSWER THAT HONESTLY AND YOU MAY ACTUALLY WAKE UP.

You made a statement that has little substance and I disagreed.
I'll tell you that there have been few players of his height that have ever had his agility. As such, he can play the crumbing forward very well. The evidence is that he is kicking lots of goals that way. He does play a little taller as he can take the occasional grab too. Sure he is not a pack mark kind of player.
This makes him dangerous and difficult to match. Put a tall player to stop the one out mark and they can't handle his agility. Put a small player on him and he will out mark him more often than not.
You cannot generalise as he is a unique type of player.  His main problem is injuries may eventually ruin his agility.  Until then he will be a huge headache for an opposition.
How you can say with certainty that his crumbing game will never translate into the AFL, I don't know. Sure you MIGHT be right but the guy is putting the runs on the board by kicking goals. He can't do more than that!!!!
I hope he makes it, not only for our sake, but also to stick it up you! I say that because if someone disagrees with you you get angry and start capitalising your responses. Just learn to be more measured and calm. You actually might gain a little more respect from people that way.

[the claw]

tone your post is a good one and i will get to it  but mate im going out and dont have the time to answer.

There's no questions with regard to his diet, he has put on 10 kg since being drafted, no one would have exceeded that. He will easily achieve 3 more kg. more contested work is required if he is cut the mustard at senior level. That said, he should be given a taste , he s done enough

you know what i agree. there is no harm in giving him a game.  just for the experience and to find out what is required.
but  put yourself in their shoes, given they are chasing finals and are very much in the now can you blame em if they dont.

my gripe is what role do we play mcbean in, if we give him a few games. no way can we expect him to perform a tall role so he cant replace a vickery or griffiths  and imo there are far better smaller options who also need games.
what message are we going to send to liam. yepp we will give you a game based on a crumbing game. or no mate your kicking goals atm but we need you to perform a different role, a role that will see you succeeed at this level.

Just because he is tall doesn't mean he has to play that way.....Sheeeeeeshhhhh!!!!

ffs are you freakin think or dislexsic or something. IMO HE WONT MAKE IT AT AFL UNLESS HE CAN BECOME A TALL PLAYER. IM SAYING HIS CRUMBING GAME WONT TRANSLATE TO AFL. THE CLUB OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE GOOD SENSE TO THINK THE SAME WAY.
PLAY HIM ATM AND I RECKON HE WILL GET CHEWED UP AND SPAT OUT AS A SNACK.

TWO SIMPLE QUESTIONS.
1/ HOW MANY 200CM PLUS PLAYERS HAVE BECOME GOOD PERMANENT  KPFS.
2/  HOW MANY MAKLE A LIVILIHOOD AT AFL LEVEL AS CRUMBERS WHO CANT PLAY TALL.

ANSWER THAT HONESTLY AND YOU MAY ACTUALLY WAKE UP.

You made a statement that has little substance and I disagreed.
I'll tell you that there have been few players of his height that have ever had his agility. As such, he can play the crumbing forward very well. The evidence is that he is kicking lots of goals that way. He does play a little taller as he can take the occasional grab too. Sure he is not a pack mark kind of player.
This makes him dangerous and difficult to match. Put a tall player to stop the one out mark and they can't handle his agility. Put a small player on him and he will out mark him more often than not.
You cannot generalise as he is a unique type of player.  His main problem is injuries may eventually ruin his agility.  Until then he will be a huge headache for an opposition.
How you can say with certainty that his crumbing game will never translate into the AFL, I don't know. Sure you MIGHT be right but the guy is putting the runs on the board by kicking goals. He can't do more than that!!!!
I hope he makes it, not only for our sake, but also to stick it up you! I say that because if someone disagrees with you you get angry and start capitalising your responses. Just learn to be more measured and calm. You actually might gain a little more respect from people that way.

fine cant be bothered or have the time to argue. needless to say one of of us will be seen to be right in about 3 or 4 yrs time. i will state now if he cant play tall we may as well delist the bloke right now.