Helmut secret meetings

[Coach]

For those of you who don't know, Michael Pahoff (bloke who was running around collecting signatures back in the day  ) posts on PRE as Phantom. Now I have just read something that greatly disturbs me. Just reading a thread on PRE about developing talls and saw Phantom posted this last month: "Riewoldt was an interesting one.

I remember speaking with Francis over the phone prior to the draft. There was much discussion from others about taking the other Taswegian key forward in ... I think Thorp was his name.
Both Francis and I were very keen on Riewoldt as we'd both seen him do very well the previous year.

The key was the VFL match where both Riewoldt and Thorp played in the Taswegian team.
What was clear, that I said to Francis, was that Riewoldt can jump but Thorp couldn't, and therefore Riewoldt was going to be more competitive in tight situations.

Unfortunately, when Riewoldt arrived, Richardson ruled the roost.
It was clear that none of the other younger key forwards - Schulz, Hughes nor Reiwoldt were getting a far go.
This was the root of my enormous angst towards Richardson in his later years.
Richardson was playing for himself, not the team. It was very clear.

So, next point was Craig Cameron's arrival at Tigerland.
Since Craig and I don't get on so well now, I can say that we met secretly a couple of times at a cafe around the corner from where he lived in Middle Park, before he began at Richmond.
I gave Craig a copy of my Richmond computer files, so that he had a summarised and organised history to work with.
That was when he engaged me to do some statistical research studies on drafting, and success rates over the previous decade with 1st, 2nd & 3rd round picks. Although, I went further and broke it down to picks 1-10, 11-20, etc.
We planned how the list was going to change.
We knew that Richardson was messing up the forward line, but public opinion at Richmond would never allow his removal.
We knew that 3 junior forwards who all played similar football was at least 1, possibly 2 too many.
We knew Hughes was going to go, and I was for it.
Schulz, I thought, was going to stay, to play CHB, but Craig in retrospect must have felt differently.
We thought Reiwoldt had something that was yet to come out on the footy field.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jack_Riewoldt.html

At that point, Riewoldt was lucky.
He did have a slow start.
Schulz and Hughes, similar players, were on the list with him but only a year or two older.
Three plus Richardson were certainly too many.

Personally, the impetus to get rid of Richardson, even if it was just to get him up to the wing, was a major factor in Riewoldt's development.

No doubt, if Richardson had stayed at FF, he would have continued there for the next 2 years, and Riewoldt would have eventually gone the same way as Hughes & Schulz, only because that was the lack of foresight at Richmond prior to then."

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Can one of you wankers with your inside info (you Club 80 nut huggers don't count) nip this claim in the bud? Fair dinkum, Pahoff & Craig Cameron sitting at a cafe exchanging files and talking about how Richardson is no good. Why would that not surprise me  And phone calls with Francis Jackson  That is unreal stuff. Now Michael is a good bloke and a passionate supporter. I certainly don't agree with everything he says but why make that up?

[Coach]

http://www.puntroadend.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=47551.msg1524128;topicseen#msg1524128

[gerkin greg]

Big afternoon at Coach's mum's rental property

[Penelope]

We thought Reiwoldt had something that was yet to come out on the footy field.

This comment shows great foresight and intuition.
Reiwoldts ability to stand and point after he missed a goal as developed to point where he second to none.

In all serisosness, i don't read that as saying that Richo was no good, just that the forward line revolved around him too much and as he was nearing the end of his career that had to change.

I thought that for a long time we were too Richo centric and also felt that played a large part in Shultze never reaching his potential at Tigerland.

When Kennedy took over as coach at hawthorn he said something similar about Hudson and that they would not win a premiership with him there. Controversially he gave him the big A but won a premiership the next year (or year after?)

[Coach]

Yeah but WGAF about that man. This is about Helmut and Pahoff exploding theories and sharing files. Someone just tell me that's BS.

The comments about Richo playing for himself are a disgrace

[Penelope]

i must be missing something as I'm unsure what the problem is with giving a new employee info needed to do his job.

As for someone telling you its BS, i doubt its possible. If the meetings were secret then only those supposedly involved would know, and as you say, why would he make that up.

But then again, I cant work out why they met in secret though. that doesn't make a lot of sense. maybe he is just making it up , or just bends the truth a bit to come across as a secret squirrel type?

[bojangles17]

2 minutes of. My life i wont  get back

[Penelope]

have you ever spent 2 minutes of your life you will get back?

[Coach]

i must be missing something as I'm unsure what the problem is with giving a new employee info needed to do his job.

As for someone telling you its BS, i doubt its possible. If the meetings were secret then only those supposedly involved would know, and as you say, why would he make that up.

But then again, I cant work out why they met in secret though. that doesn't make a lot of sense. maybe he is just making it up , or just bends the truth a bit to come across as a secret squirrel type?

You see no problem with Pahoff giving Helmut his info? What has Pahoff done in football that makes his "files" worth looking at? Surely this guy has to have some football background to be speaking on the phone with recruiters and having secret meetings with a guy running the football department. Why would Cameron meet with him in the first place? Pahoff has delusions of his importance and football knowledge (bit like some of us OER experts ) which just makes this whole thing incredibly ridiculous. Cameron is better off smoking a joint with BJ than listening to Phantom.

have you ever spent 2 minutes of your life you will get back?

We've just cost the sook 2 minutes of thinking up gay nicknames for next years draftees

[Phil Mrakov]

Crap thread brah

[Coach]

Crap thread brah

You're doing a poor job at hiding how butt hurt you are. It would be good for everyone if you realised you're an incredibly unfunny gimp.

[Phil Mrakov]

Crap thread brah

You're doing a poor job at hiding how butt hurt you are. It would be good for everyone if you realised you're an incredibly unfunny gimp.

Just stating the truth. poo thread is poo

[RedanTiger]

i must be missing something as I'm unsure what the problem is with giving a new employee info needed to do his job.

As for someone telling you its BS, i doubt its possible. If the meetings were secret then only those supposedly involved would know, and as you say, why would he make that up.

But then again, I cant work out why they met in secret though. that doesn't make a lot of sense. maybe he is just making it up , or just bends the truth a bit to come across as a secret squirrel type?

You see no problem with Pahoff giving Helmut his info? What has Pahoff done in football that makes his "files" worth looking at? Surely this guy has to have some football background to be speaking on the phone with recruiters and having secret meetings with a guy running the football department. Why would Cameron meet with him in the first place? Pahoff has delusions of his importance and football knowledge (bit like some of us OER experts ) which just makes this whole thing incredibly ridiculous. Cameron is better off smoking a joint with BJ than listening to Phantom.

Agree with others that you're creating a storm in a teacup.
When Cameron came over (as List Manager), Miller was still very much in control but very busy with the added job of Director.
Presumably Miller got Pahoff to brief Cameron on the history of our picks to give an over view of the list.
No big deal to my mind since I don't think the club really had that type of data at hand at the time. Get it where you can.

Any discussion of Richmond's list would have included some opinion of Richo/forwards.
How seriously an incoming List Manager would take those is up to him but one would think Miller had already warned Cameron. 

As for the secrecy angle, it would have been before the draft when Cameron was still a Melbourne employee.
Most do it, but it is really a serious no-no to be working simultaneously for two companies competing in the same industry.

As you say, Pahoff does have some delusions as to his importance and knowledge - as do we all - so I don't know why you take his story as gospel truth as to his influence.
If you've read his posts over the years you would realise that his opinions are very much NOT the actions taken by Richmond.
This case of trading out Richo is yet another.

[Rampstar]

 

[Rampstar]

Richmond FC should be sold to private investors and privatised. No more members taking the pee out of the whole joint, the owners would be solely responsible