Essendon face AFL probe/Players found Guilty by CAS

[Yeahright]

You give some really good points WP.

I'm just playing devils advocate here on the players behalf.

Absolutely agree that Hird has to go. The media won't like it and there will be plenty of debate over the "golden boy". But as he's already stated in the original club press conference was that he takes full responsibility for what's happened. More the likely Hirds mates in the media will conveniently forget all about what he said.
The club will have to be heavily punished too. 

In light of the arguements, common sense & evidence you've so expertly put forward, there are still a few questions left unanswered;
Did any player at the club inform their parents or player managers about the program?
Did altleast one parent or player manager know about this?
If they did, did they approach the club for clarification on what was given to their kids/clients?

As you've already stated its mindboggling if atleast one parent or manager or the players association didnt know about this. And if they didn't, why didnt they know? Was it so top secret the club informed the players not to talk about it to anyone?


That said I still think the players will fight tooth and nail to clear their names.

Just a question for you. If all your points were true i.e. players took illegal substances but they prove they were told they were legal by the club, do you still ban players from playing or at a minimum don't let them play for points? Or do you sack the staff involved but let the players continue to play?

[Yeahright]

THE WORLD Anti-Doping Agency has reaffirmed the banned status of AOD-9604 after Essendon captain Jobe Watson admitted he'd been injected with the substance.

Watson insists he has done nothing wrong, having followed advice from Essendon medical staff, and he was surprised by WADA's statement last month confirming the drug was banned.

But WADA president John Fahey said on Tuesday "nothing has changed" and repeated the obligations athletes are under.

"You are responsible for what goes into your system, it's a strict liability."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-06-25/jobe-liable-for-drug-use-wada

[Penelope]

there is extenuating circumstances clause for reduction in penalty. there is a link in this thread to the newspaper article and it was mentioned by some bloke who was involved in the green? team cycling doping investigation on the ABC this morning.

I wonder how many of those saying that the players should have gone out and done their own research after being given assurances by the club staff it was all above board, gobble down all the pills their doctors prescribe to them without doing research to learn the side effects, or if it is even necessary or appropriate for the condition they seek help on?

[Yeahright]

there is extenuating circumstances clause for reduction in penalty. there is a link in this thread to the newspaper article and it was mentioned by some bloke who was involved in the green? team cycling doping investigation on the ABC this morning.

I wonder how many of those saying that the players should have gone out and done their own research after being given assurances by the club staff it was all above board, gobble down all the pills their doctors prescribe to them without doing research to learn the side effects, or if it is even necessary or appropriate for the condition they seek help on?

How many doctors tell you the drugs you are taking are "cutting edge" and make you sign consent forms and make you meet someone else in an abandoned shed to get them injected into you.

[Francois Jackson]

there is extenuating circumstances clause for reduction in penalty. there is a link in this thread to the newspaper article and it was mentioned by some bloke who was involved in the green? team cycling doping investigation on the ABC this morning.

I wonder how many of those saying that the players should have gone out and done their own research after being given assurances by the club staff it was all above board, gobble down all the pills their doctors prescribe to them without doing research to learn the side effects, or if it is even necessary or appropriate for the condition they seek help on?

not me, but hey my doctor doesn't inject things in me and if he wanted to and i was getting paid big bucks i would be doing my research make no mistake about that instead of relying on some d grade scientists with links to organized crime who make me sign forms that are "lost"

If my doctor was taking me away for injections i would raising some serious alarm bells.

If anything the Essendon players should be charged with being idiots. What fools they are thinking all was right being taking off premises.

ooh Spike Mcveigh. haha the bloke lost the little credibility he had left when he let fly at Reimers for sleeping during team meetings while they discussed vitamin injections or something along those lines

ooh Spike how you look the fool now.

[Tigeritis™©®]

You give some really good points WP.

I'm just playing devils advocate here on the players behalf.

Absolutely agree that Hird has to go. The media won't like it and there will be plenty of debate over the "golden boy". But as he's already stated in the original club press conference was that he takes full responsibility for what's happened. More the likely Hirds mates in the media will conveniently forget all about what he said.
The club will have to be heavily punished too. 

In light of the arguements, common sense & evidence you've so expertly put forward, there are still a few questions left unanswered;
Did any player at the club inform their parents or player managers about the program?
Did altleast one parent or player manager know about this?
If they did, did they approach the club for clarification on what was given to their kids/clients?

As you've already stated its mindboggling if atleast one parent or manager or the players association didnt know about this. And if they didn't, why didnt they know? Was it so top secret the club informed the players not to talk about it to anyone?


That said I still think the players will fight tooth and nail to clear their names.

Just a question for you. If all your points were true i.e. players took illegal substances but they prove they were told they were legal by the club, do you still ban players from playing or at a minimum don't let them play for points? Or do you sack the staff involved but let the players continue to play?

No idea. But I'd expect the club to pay dearly. Hird to get the arse don't see him getting out of this mess and if he does it would be an absolute joke.
As a player I would be fighting to clear my name and I'd expect the PA to fight with me to do it.
If I was banned I'd be suing the club also.

[gerkin greg]

How many doctors tell you the drugs you are taking are "cutting edge" and make you sign consent forms and make you meet someone else in an abandoned shed to get them injected into you.

I prefer the term 'drug dungeon'

[Hellenic Tiger]

Today's events.
Tim Watson is a fool. He should not be talking about it period. Especially as his son captains the club.
The club is in serious dire straits.
To me it smacks of desperation from Jobe.
Almost like get this over and done with give us our team sanctioned penalty and lets get on with it whether it be next year or the year after with or without premiership points or draft picks.
ASADA are saying findings to be released in August I think last nights admission might just speed up that process to mid July IMHO.
As for Mark McVeigh from talking about vitamin C being injected which doesn't to his malakia about what tact his interview took to antyhing he says the guy is a moron of A+++ category.
The book will be thrown at Essen skata last night proves this and I am going to feast on their carcass if the punishments fit the crimes.

[Hellenic Tiger]

How many doctors tell you the drugs you are taking are "cutting edge" and make you sign consent forms and make you meet someone else in an abandoned shed to get them injected into you.

I prefer the term 'drug dungeon'

If they went 5k up the road they could have gone to Broady and topped up on crystal meth.

[Penelope]

there is extenuating circumstances clause for reduction in penalty. there is a link in this thread to the newspaper article and it was mentioned by some bloke who was involved in the green? team cycling doping investigation on the ABC this morning.

I wonder how many of those saying that the players should have gone out and done their own research after being given assurances by the club staff it was all above board, gobble down all the pills their doctors prescribe to them without doing research to learn the side effects, or if it is even necessary or appropriate for the condition they seek help on?

How many doctors tell you the drugs you are taking are "cutting edge" and make you sign consent forms and make you meet someone else in an abandoned shed to get them injected into you.

whats this about an abandoned shed? i must have missed that part.

Doctors normally dont say anything about what they prescribe, just how often to take. People just follow their advice with blind faith because they are seen by most as someone they can trust.

If the players were told everything was above board, then i can understand why most would not take it any further, even if i personally would. 95 % of people are sheep.

[WilliamPowell]

whats this about an abandoned shed? i must have missed that part.

It wasn't an abandoned shed al,

But it has been reported and confirmed that the players went off site to have the injections and they were not administered by the Club doctor or administered with a club doctor present. Which is a clear breach of the WADA/ASADA codes

[(•))(©™]

@ Essendon - 

[WilliamPowell]

Watson can't escape doping violation: ex-ASADA boss
Date: June 25, 2013 - 3:53PM (0)
Samantha Lane Sports Writer
EXCLUSIVE

FORMER Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority boss Richard Ings believes it is now impossible for Jobe Watson, and any other Essendon player who admits to taking AOD-9604, to avoid a doping rule violation charge.

Under World Anti-Doping Agency rules, athletes found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation face suspensions between six months and two years.

Speaking to Fairfax Media after Watson confessed publicly to taking an anti-obesity drug prohibited by the World Anti-Doping Agency, Ings forecast complex legal challenges about the status of the substance. But the ex-ASADA boss says it is now inevitable that the reigning Brownlow medallist and Essendon captain, who said in a stunning television interview on Monday night that he knowingly took AOD-9604, and other players who admit taking the substance, will face anti-doping rule violation charges.

“I cannot see a path going forward that does not involve one or more individuals being found to have committed an anti-doping rule violation,” Ings told Fairfax Media on Tuesday.

“I hold that view because now it has been confirmed that players were involved in using AOD-9604, the substance which WADA has announced is banned under the World Anti-Doping Agency code.

“Whilst there is no doubt that there will be legal challenges as to the status of AOD-9604, WADA appears to have a resolute view that the substance is banned.”

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watson-cant-escape-doping-violation-exasada-boss-20130625-2ouew.html#ixzz2XCn3WvFX

[Tigeritis™©®]

there is extenuating circumstances clause for reduction in penalty. there is a link in this thread to the newspaper article and it was mentioned by some bloke who was involved in the green? team cycling doping investigation on the ABC this morning.

I wonder how many of those saying that the players should have gone out and done their own research after being given assurances by the club staff it was all above board, gobble down all the pills their doctors prescribe to them without doing research to learn the side effects, or if it is even necessary or appropriate for the condition they seek help on?

How many doctors tell you the drugs you are taking are "cutting edge" and make you sign consent forms and make you meet someone else in an abandoned shed to get them injected into you.

whats this about an abandoned shed? i must have missed that part.

Doctors normally dont say anything about what they prescribe, just how often to take. People just follow their advice with blind faith because they are seen by most as someone they can trust.

If the players were told everything was above board, then i can understand why most would not take it any further, even if i personally would. 95 % of people are sheep.

True Al. When my dad was in hospital they were giving him all sorts of meds to cure him. I didn't worry about it too much because I thought they were doing the right thing by him. But my sister who lived in a completely different state is pedantic about this sort of thing did a bunch of research behind the scenes and found out that some of the medication he was on weren't allowed to be taken together because of the serious medical issues it could produce if mixed. She kicked up a hell of a storm about it to the point where they were begging me to tell her to butt out.
I told them to do their job properly. It seemed at the time that certain doctors had their own opinions but forgot to confer with one another.
My grandmother was in a similar predicament. One doctor specifically took her off a medication that she had a bad reaction to but the nurses were still giving it to her.
And people wonder why some older people die in hospital. They say its from the sickness or because they're old but I wouldn't be surprised if it was because hospital incompetence and regular people fail to do the appropriate checks.

[gerkin greg]

whats this about an abandoned shed? i must have missed that part.

It wasn't an abandoned shed al,

It was a DRUG DUNGEON